Chris Fike
Active member
Does anyone know when we will be seeing cameras out using the Foveon chips (Aside from the Sigma)?
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Foveon...
- Thread starter Chris Fike
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Ruffian
Senior Member
Foveon has yet to prove its net worth on the dSLR market, and it could be some 18 months behind now that 11MP cameras have become reality.
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Peter Phan
Senior Member
If any manufacturer other than Foveon were to come out with an X3 clone it would probably be Canon since they have the most experience with CMOS chips (the Foveon X3 being a CMOS chip). However, if high MP CMOS chips become the norm, many people may not even be interested in a 1.7x crop factor. The X3 could be dead on arrival.
David Barkin
Senior Member
henrysunset
Member
aren't people missing the point here a bit?
a standard 11 megapixel cheats a lot by counting each color sensor as a different pixel. this is a whole new deal guys. now we get all three colors precisely at a specific point instead of each pixel being an interpolation of the actual sensors that surround it. as i recall a standard sensor is 2 greens, 1 red and 1 blue in a 2x2 matrix, repeated across the whole sensing region.
this is so much cleaner, so at the very minimum, it should be comparable to a 9 megapixel standard sensor right?. it's sensing as much info as a standard style 12 megapixel imager (3mp of red, 3mp blue, 6mp of green)
lmk if i'm wrong, but this really is good stuff folks.
a standard 11 megapixel cheats a lot by counting each color sensor as a different pixel. this is a whole new deal guys. now we get all three colors precisely at a specific point instead of each pixel being an interpolation of the actual sensors that surround it. as i recall a standard sensor is 2 greens, 1 red and 1 blue in a 2x2 matrix, repeated across the whole sensing region.
this is so much cleaner, so at the very minimum, it should be comparable to a 9 megapixel standard sensor right?. it's sensing as much info as a standard style 12 megapixel imager (3mp of red, 3mp blue, 6mp of green)
lmk if i'm wrong, but this really is good stuff folks.
theswede #100093
Veteran Member
Not really.
Not true. There is no matrix. There is a continous pattern of pixels, and every interpolation is done from all surrounding pixels, not in a matrix. This makes the difference much smaller than it would seem.
More like a 50-100% higher pixel count. So a 3MP Foveon will be comparable to a 5-6MP Bayer when reproducing chaotic or low contrast detail.
However, that is assuming all else is equal. If the noise levels are better or worse that will make a lot of difference.
If they can make a big, nice, noise free one, then yes. At 3MP it's no big deal.
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Jesper
theswede #100093
Veteran Member
CMOS is a specific type of transistor, common with low power integrated circuits. Presumably the Foveon is made using CMOS technology.
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Jesper
Who cares what it is (foveon) the camera is still an air camera and not ready for the market for at lest another year. Visited the factory in Japan late August and still cooking it al low temperature, the ‘pitcher’ ain’t very stable yet…bit like driving cars on hydrogen.
Condorito
Condorito
Chris Birkett
Forum Enthusiast
Igor R.
Senior Member
Another words, take a picture with D60, than take a picture with SD9, then blow up Sigma file to 6 megapixel size with Genuine Fractals, and they will be atlest equal in resolution (if Sigma will not be better), is that clear now? And please don't tell me cr@p like "Byer is predicting correctly, thus resolution is real"... it "predictin' correctly" when it a wall, or a car, it doesn't predicting the detalis that are about the same size as a pixel! It is agains information theory (math devision), ever heard of? With your pseudo-sci theory, Fractals are "predictiong correctly" too! Guys, look here, I blowed up and image from D30 to 256 Megapixels and those 256 M are real, cuz GF is predictiong correclty!
S
Stefan Klocke
Guest
Igor,
this has been discussed at length back in February.
EVERYONE that I do know, does want a working Foveon sensor, because the idea is so applealing and because we all have seen Bayer problems in one form or the other.
However, with a 1.7 crop factor, this is sadly enough a technology study, possibly an extremely useful one for some, but not for me.
The clear advantage of Foveon over Bayer is, for a good part, sales talk and I am sure you know that as well. Taking the most stupid Bayer results and compare them against the X3 is hardly relevant in real live cases.
Lets hope the Sigma sells like hot cakes to see Version 2 as soon as possible.
Stefan
this has been discussed at length back in February.
EVERYONE that I do know, does want a working Foveon sensor, because the idea is so applealing and because we all have seen Bayer problems in one form or the other.
However, with a 1.7 crop factor, this is sadly enough a technology study, possibly an extremely useful one for some, but not for me.
The clear advantage of Foveon over Bayer is, for a good part, sales talk and I am sure you know that as well. Taking the most stupid Bayer results and compare them against the X3 is hardly relevant in real live cases.
Lets hope the Sigma sells like hot cakes to see Version 2 as soon as possible.
Stefan
henrysunset
Member
on the topic of foveon: since theoretically every photon now hits a sensor (barring huge inbetween space overhead, rather than red and green ones getting ignored in the case of a blue sensor of a grid, will this mean higher functional isos (perhaps on the order of 4x), or are ther other issues in the design that keep this from happening.
In theory, it woud be 4x as good, which could mean for some kinda killer night camera. ISO 800 to 1600 w/out horrid grain would be amazing. (which would rock my world, i hate limits)
In theory, it woud be 4x as good, which could mean for some kinda killer night camera. ISO 800 to 1600 w/out horrid grain would be amazing. (which would rock my world, i hate limits)
Teppo Hytönen
Senior Member
Wondering the same thing. Don't really want to get an Ixus v3 or something if I can get a similar camera with an X3 within, say, three months... but then again, I don't KNOW when I could get one like that, so I guess v3 it'll be (unless a S330-> - call it S400 if you will - is released).
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Teppo @ Finland
Cameras: Canon PowerShot S30, Nikon CoolPix 5700
Galleries: http://th.joroinen.fi/home/photography.html
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Teppo @ Finland
Cameras: Canon PowerShot S30, Nikon CoolPix 5700
Galleries: http://th.joroinen.fi/home/photography.html
John Mankos
Veteran Member
It's only sales talk, if you never take pictures of anything, like that has hair or something like that.
Hair, fur, feathers...these are the achillies heel of the bayer sensor. This is where the foveon technology offers the advantage. You should not see Moire artifacts at all with the foveon sensors.
Sorry, but I've had 5 digicams, a C2500L, an E10, a Dimage 7, a D30 and a D60, and they have all shown moire to one extent or another. The 6mp of the D60 has reduced it and it is the least noticable there...but if I look hard enough I can still find it.
No, I won't be running out and selling my D60 for the SD9....but the technology is very promising.
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John
http://www.pbase.com/mankman
Canon EOS D60
Canon 24-85USM
Sigma 50-500EX
Kenko 2x Pro TC
Ruffian
Senior Member
Canon's naming scheme for its cameras are so much like the ones used by my university: they make no sense whatsoever. S400 with a 3MP... hmm.
That would be interesting.
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