SSS MLU Test Shots on Tripod CONCLUSIONS?

Thank you..I see you have invested time and effort (in the other thread) discussing this topic. I guess my contribution is for those with an A700 and wether or not to use it (come to your own conclusion)..not a whole discussion as to wether it is needed or should Sony or Nikon or Canon put it in all models.
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John Y



'You never know what you CAN see'

MLU works , FULL STOP!

Any opinion on SSS on tripod?
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John Y



'You never know what you CAN see'

It really is petty simple isn't it?

Sony recommends tuning off SSS when using a tripod. If the tripod is solid and the camera is stable you don't need the SSS to be active and possibly moving around. If your tripod is not solid and the camera is moving in the wind etc. leave the SSS on as it should help.

No reason to over think this subject. If the camera is solid and not moving how could SSS possibly help?

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tom power

U'mm Sony say not, but in your test shots it was of benifit, but never the less MLU SSS off, had the best results, thank you for you efforts.

I love it, I think we cannot raise the issue enough, clearly Sony are in need of a clear message from users.

I have left SSS on with some shots, by accident..and it did not appear to have any negative effects, didn't appear to have any positive ones either..but I mostly switch it off.

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I love it, I think we cannot raise the issue enough, clearly Sony are in need of a clear message from users.

I have left SSS on with some shots, by accident..and it did not appear to have any negative effects, didn't appear to have any positive ones either..but I mostly switch it off.

Click to expand...

Yes you can raise the issue enough. It's enough already Barry. No need to repeat it in every post. Everyone gets it. Sony won't put it in because you say it one more time either.

I appreciate the shots you posted because they clearly show the benefit of MLU in a type of photo that general users might shoot. The other thread had a number of MLU shots w/o comparison or comparisons that responders complained "were not things people would care about"

The difference in your shots is clear even in the uncropped shots with the lettering and stitches appearing crisp in the MLU shots. I'd say that the difference was on the order of what I would have expected in the film days going from an Instamatic P&S to an SLR or range finder with good lens and careful focusing (although framing with the rangefinder would have been a bit more difficult). It is that improvement in sharpness - a difference between my glasses being smudged or clean - that led me to buy my first rangefinder and then my first SLR, and has annoyed me everytime I have tried to go back to a P&S camera.

All the shots are usable, I've seen many family snaps with that less sharp look (great for portraits of granny), but I really want my shots sharp.

Regarding SSS on a tripod -- Your shots show it works. Others showed it didn't. I think that a big variable is the shakiness of the tripod. I think that would be difficult to quantify when it will work and when it won't, but it shows that each user interested in using SSS should give it a try with their tripod and lenses to see when it works. For example it might work with longer lenses where it is difficult to get shake free shots even on a very rigid tripod (or maybe not).

Tom

Thank you for responding and well stated. Each person should learn the limitations and or how best to use the equiptment they have. These forums also provide the opportunity to share in a way that may help others.
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John Y



'You never know what you CAN see'

ScYcS said:

Yes you can raise the issue enough. It's enough already Barry. No need to repeat it in every post. Everyone gets it. Sony won't put it in because you say it one more time either.

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Bit of a shame then it's not your forum ;-)

I encourage users to let their voice be heard. Some users are looking to make things better, this helps all of us. Just ignore the die hard fans who will make excuses for poor choices that Sony makes. They support the crippling of models, they want to stand in the way of progress.

Simple Sony does not work, not for the Alpha range..

ScYcS, you are playing on the wrong side of the pitch, but have fun

Barry,

what makes YOU on the right side of the pitch? Only because i don't complain all day long doesn't mean i don't care....

Barry Fitzgerald said:

ScYcS said:

Yes you can raise the issue enough. It's enough already Barry. No need to repeat it in every post. Everyone gets it. Sony won't put it in because you say it one more time either.

Click to expand...

Bit of a shame then it's not your forum ;-)

I encourage users to let their voice be heard. Some users are looking to make things better, this helps all of us. Just ignore the die hard fans who will make excuses for poor choices that Sony makes. They support the crippling of models, they want to stand in the way of progress.

Simple Sony does not work, not for the Alpha range..

ScYcS, you are playing on the wrong side of the pitch, but have fun

Click to expand...

Just curious, did you use the remote shutter release? I ask because I didn't think you could turn MLU off when using the timer. So in regular drive mode your hand pressing the shutter button could have possibly induced the vibration you see unless you were using the remote release. I'm not questioning the value of MLU here (it's a feature I want in my cameras) just curious on the method.

Or can MLU be disabled when using the 2 and 10 second timers (on A700)?
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I can't comment on the A700 & tripod use with SSS but I have found that using SSS on a tripod with the A900 is not advisable as it is most likely to increase blurring especially at slow shutter speeds.

My experience with the KM 5D was less of a problem on the whole but there seemed to be no advantage to using AntiShake with a tripod & occasionally at speeds greater than 1 sec resonant feedback could cause severe blurring & this was accompanied by obvious noise from the AS mechanism.
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Keith-C

I love to respond to my own postings :^), but I wanted to add that I am a firm believer in differentiation of features across a camera line. So I would have no problem with Sony (or anyone else) leaving MLU or DOF preview off of entry level cameras.

The question is at what level camera should they be added?? 850 or 900? or their next highest level cameras in production (450, 500/550) or one step above entry level. My personal feeling is that in every line there should be an advanced amateur level camera that has all of the standard photographic features. So in this case I'd say at least one or all of the 450/500/550 cameras should have MLU. This is the level where people would generally (not all) be trying to improve their photography to the next plateau. (Some would argue that 3xx series is that point, others that since they don't use it, its unnecessary in anything below 850 and then only to please those self deluded old film folks.)

During the Minolta era the "si" range of cameras was the closest analogue to the current Sony line (at least at the lower levels).

At the lowest level, they had the QTsi which took Barry's examples to the extreme - completely automatic, no ability to change or even see shutterspeed and aperture (it might confuse the user), no remote socket, 2 segment metering etc. In the next series along with the 9, 7, and 5 they also had the 3 which was the same type of interchangable lens P&S with the same lack of utility.

The sad part was that these were the cameras that Mom or Dad usually bought the new aspiring young photographer who wanted to change from P&S and disposables to a "real camera". It was cheap (not that cheap) and was pushed by many of the chain photo stores when Mom or Dad showed some reluctance over the cost of the higher entry level cameras.

The problems came when junior (or missy) took their new camera and started trying things they read about in their intro to photo book, such as "lets make star trails", or "Control of DOF using the f-stop is the key to photos that pop". Then they would write in to one of the photo forums asking how they to do it with their camera and get the answer "sorry, your camera can't do that'. Even more fun when they got the camera for a photo class in junior or senior high school, and the teacher had to explain why their new camera wasn't going to work in the class. (hopefully the camera was new enough that Mom or Dad could return it and get a useful one.) The new one was usually a Canon, because at least Canon entry level cameras didn't go that far down, and everyone knew that Canon's were the only cameras to buy. So I feel that these cameras didn't help Minolta's case at all.

Thankfully Sony hasn't followed Minolta down that path yet, and hopefully they never will.

Tom

gipper51 said:

Just curious, did you use the remote shutter release? I ask because I didn't think you could turn MLU off when using the timer. So in regular drive mode your hand pressing the shutter button could have possibly induced the vibration you see unless you were using the remote release. I'm not questioning the value of MLU here (it's a feature I want in my cameras) just curious on the method.

Or can MLU be disabled when using the 2 and 10 second timers (on A700)?
--
Newest galleries:
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Click to expand...

MLU is not set when using the 10 second timer.

Tom

Did not use the remote. I did push the shutter release by hand and it could (does) induce "vibration". I guess that is why SSS On has an effect. Using the remote (and it to could be used with MLU..that is the 2 Sec button on the remote) would be "another test case".
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John Y



'You never know what you CAN see'

ScYcS said:

Barry,

what makes YOU on the right side of the pitch? Only because i don't complain all day long doesn't mean i don't care....

Click to expand...

It's very simple, having MLU won't hurt anyone, and will help a fair few users.

Better to fight for something useful, than to stand against it.

I do not feel it is unreasonable to have MLU on at least the A450 and up, all that remains is to get the message through to Sony, last time they didn't seem to pay attention, by raising the MLU point frequently..they may be forced to take notice.

Read this Barry:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=34202789

I agree

Bruce
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http://www.pbase.com/misterpixel

Well, I've tested it with my old tripod, and there SSS seems to further decrease the vibration. It's an alu tripod I've had for years. But on my new CF tripod (which is rock solid) SSS clearly added quite some movement on it's own, so it made the photos much, much worse. So I would be careful to make a blanket statement either way: you simply can't say SSS will improve or ruin the sharpness on a tripod.