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Once again -- the physical size of the memory card has absolutely no effect on the quality, detail and size of the stored digital image, while with conventional (analog?) film, a smaller negative yields a lower "resolution" photograph.Yes I can compare physical film format to memory devices! How do
you make a smaller camera? You make smaller film. The same applies
in digital. The smallest digital cameras today use SD cards. SD
cards are smaller than CF and SM thus they made the smaller
cameras. Just as APS film allowed them to make smaller film cameras.
MemoryStick soon to be gone? Know something the rest of us don't?I am not worked up. I just find it a bit annoying that they kep
trying to switch the standard and they keep failing. Like SM, MMC,
the stick (soon to be gone), full size PCMCIA is getting rare, etc.
But Elphs use CF cards, so the rationale that XD are good because they allow smaller cameras does not quite hold up here.1) no, i am not the owner of a COOLPIX.
2) yes, i press the buttons - without a jewel screwdriver, mind you
3) last week i think we sold about 25 or so ELPHs/IXUSes at my
- of small cameras about five days a week when i demo them in store.
store, so i think that you will have to accept that NOT EVERYONE
have the same requests as yourself when buying a camera.
That, ironically, is a point against the new XD cards - for cards to be interchangeable and compatible across platforms and devices, you need standards, where a camera, a phone, a PDA can all use the same storage media. SD cards are becoming such a standard, and to throw in another format makes things more confusing and difficult. If you own an XD camera, you'll have to find an XD mobile phone, which, for quite some time will not be easy. Suppose another major company, like Kodak or Toshiba, which is not part of the XD consortium, launches its own tiny card to avoid paying license fees - will that be good for consumers too?4) this weekend i used a BIG, BULKY LEICA DIGILUX 1 that utilizes
SMALL, TINY SD cards. afterwards i inserted the SD card into my
cellphone - because of the 'bulkiness' of CFs you won't ever come
across new cellphones etc w CF compatibility - and emailed them to
my sister. POINT IS - the advantages of a small card is not
necessarily that the device taking the pics need to be small, BUT
that it opens up NEW possibilities w interaction w auxillaries. i
believe there's a word for that... OH YES, M U L T I M E D I A !
The problem is that storage media are not a matter of taste - you can't accessorize your camera, wearing a CF with it one day and XD the next. Besides, digital camera are still quite expensive (at least the good ones), and being able to use your inventory of cards, which may be worth a couple hundred $, when you upgrade to a new model is not a trifling consideration for many.6) try facing the fact that there's a big world out there, and that
everybody's taste and demands are different. nothing to get worked
up about...
What I know is Sony can't get their stick up. They need to get their memory capacity up to handle their 5mp cameras or they will lose market share. I expect that their sales will fall unless the make their cameras dual slot which is about as good as putting the nail in the coffin of betamax, I mean memory stick.MemoryStick soon to be gone? Know something the rest of us don't?
PCMCIA (otherwise known as PC Card) has been around since 1990 and
most all notebook computers have a slot for at least one.
--
Tony
c2100, c3040, a200, b300, pt010
http://www.pbase.com/indigo68
That would be great to make the cameras smaller but I guess you would run a wire to a box attached to your belt. Kind of like the Mega-Vision digital camera back for medium format.why does the media need to fit inside the
device? why not snap onto the back of it?
or plugin like a pen drive? or ....? or are the indistries inbed
with each other?
My name is posted. What's yours?What's is your name?
At my age now, just watching HDTV, taking photos once in awhile of my grandchildren, and trying to keep abreast of the new technology.What is your quest?
Good question, what is the flight velocity of a swallow?What is the flight velocity of a swallow?
--Gene,
Color TV was an improvement to b/w TV because most people see the
world in color, therefore TV should look more like the world. HDTV
is an improvmement in the sharpness of the image. Since what we see
with our eyes is generally sharper than TV. HDTV is better because
it gives a sharper more color accurate view, closer to what the eye
really sees. Just as the E-20 has higher res than the E-10, that is
another improvement.
Now that we have established what an IMPROVEMENT actually is, let's
talk about camera memory.
XD is better because:
it is smaller
it has a lower power drain
it might be faster?
it puts more money in the pockets of Fuji and Olympus
CF is better because:
it's cheaper
it has greater capacities
it is compatable with more cameras than any other type of memory
it is not so huge that you'll break your shoulder carrying them
it is fast enough for the average user and most pro's
If XD had equal capacities TODAY (or even 256) at near the same
price as CF cards, I would not be so down on it. It is not an
improvement. It's different and has a very samll potential to be
better. So small, it's worth ignoring.
Now pay your toll and answer me these questions 3!
What's is your name?
What is your quest?
What is the flight velocity of a swallow?
--Yes I can compare physical film format to memory devices! How doYou can't compare a physical film format to memory devices -- the
size of the memory's form factor has absolutely nothing to do with
its image quality. The name of the game with memory is faster
speed and higher capacity -- a smaller format makes it more
adaptable to smaller devices, be they cameras, mobile phones, PDAs,
MP3 players or computers.
you make a smaller camera? You make smaller film. The same applies
in digital. The smallest digital cameras today use SD cards. SD
cards are smaller than CF and SM thus they made the smaller
cameras. Just as APS film allowed them to make smaller film cameras.
--Hi there,
I don't believe that a new memory card is necessarily bad and is
being obsolete. In fact, CF cards ARE too big sized for my taste.
It doesn't matter if it fits in one small camera, but if you try to
carry let's say 8 CF cards with you (as compared to 8 SM cards or
xD cards), you will easily see that size DOES matter. BTW: There
will be an adapter available for CF slots to fit xD cards in.
What I am concerned about is that the technique of the xD card
doesn't seem to be too different from that of the SM cards. So why
aren't any SM cards available with more than 128 MB? I believe
there would be no real echnical problem to produce 256 or even 512
MB SM cards, if it is possible to produce xD cards of this
capacity. Hence, I am very sceptical about this new "standard" (if
it is ever going to be a standard). Just my two cents...
--
Gabi
Olympus C-40 (D-40), Olympus C-2100UZ, Toshiba PDR-M70
http://www.gdiekert.de/gallery.htm
--That's my point - why reinvent the wheel, when there is already theMaybe yes, maybe no, but along the same lines, an identically sizedDoes it need to be though? I'd say it's about as small as isYes, but if Canon utilized SD or xD, you can't say the camera
wouldn't be smaller.
practically useful - any smaller and it will became a toy that's
very difficult to handle. Cameras that use SD cards (Pentax Optio,
for example) are about the same size. If the small size of XD is
aimed at cell phones, etc. it would be more logical for them to be
introduced by general electronics companies like Toshiba or Samsung
rather than the more camera-centered Fujifilm and Olympus.
SD or xD camera can be introduced with more features and more
megapixels.
SD, which has had time to grow its installed product base --
introduced by consumer electronics giant Matsushita
(Panasonic/Technics/Quasar/National/JVC) -- is currently used in
digital cameras, camcorders, printers, MP3 players, PDAs and
computers.
similar-sized, widely accepted SD cards available in larger
capacities? This card evolution/confusion is getting worse than the
DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD-RAM/DVD R battle.
--
Misha
Actually, they are available in 256 and 512Mb (the latter only beginning to come to the US now).I won't go into the idea of DVD recordable format. Waiting for one
to take hold. As far as the SD card hold a lot of MB's, the largest
now is 128 MB. They were suppose to have a 1 GB by the beginning of
this year. So they must be having problems.
Here's a link to a seller:beginning to come to the US now).Actually, they are available in 256 and 512Mb (the latter only
--
--Here's a link to a seller:beginning to come to the US now).Actually, they are available in 256 and 512Mb (the latter only
--
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?DPNo=545586&adcampaign=email,ECOSTMYSIMON
if you'd adopt the habit of checking facts before shouting out your opinion, you would have realized that both MS DUO and MS MAGICGATE - w higher capacity and even higher performance in terms of speed - are to be released. MS DUO will also be half the size of current MS - not necesarrily to make CAMERAS SMALLER but to fit inside cellphones etc, so that the ONES THAT WANT TO can enjoy all new hights of MULTIMEDIA.Zaphod wrote:
What I know is Sony can't get their stick up. They need to get
their memory capacity up to handle their 5mp cameras or they will
lose market share. I expect that their sales will fall unless the
make their cameras dual slot which is about as good as putting the
nail in the coffin of betamax, I mean memory stick.
PCMCIA storage is practically dead - yes. DARE TO GUESS WHY? HINT - new technology and development of digital imaging, computers, storage etc made them somewhat too BIG and BULKY. they weren't bad at all, but simply too BIG and BULKY to fit into the 'devices we have today, but didn't have 5 or so yrs ago'. NOW TELL ME - which is the most volumous card we have today and what is your conclusion?PCMCIA is only used in high end Kodak's and laptop computers. So
that's 3 current cameras and you don't buy a PCMCIA card to use in
a laptop, you buy a PCMCIA card to use in your Kodak DCS camera.
You buy a PCMCIA adapter for your CF, SM, SD, or stick to help you
download to your laptop. In other words, PCMCIA is practically dead.
maybe that's why they now call it PC CARD...People
Can't
Memorize
Computer
Industry
Acronyms
no, not really. coz at our company we take pride in KNOWING THE FACTS.Zaphod wrote:
Since you work in a store, wouldn't it be easier to sell one type
of memory rather than trying to remember the Olympus D-600 can take
an 8mb unless you mailed it into Olympus for the upgrade and now it
can take a 16mb. The E-10 can take SM, CF and Mircodrives but
Olympus doesn't recommend the Microdrive and the 4040 can take up
to 128mb max. Now the 5050... hmmmm?
2Mike wrote:
why does the media need to fit inside the
device? why not snap onto the back of it?
or plugin like a pen drive? or ....? or are the indistries inbed
with each other?
EXCUSE ME??? c'mon, LISTEN to yourselves!!! do you seriously propose that the industry should change the entire concept of making a camera, based on the fact that two tech-conservatives - and maybe a dozen more hiding in the bushes - don't like the fact that the CF-standard is reaching it's limits in certain areas of device-making!!!??? are you for real???Zaphod wrote:
That would be great to make the cameras smaller but I guess you
would run a wire to a box attached to your belt. Kind of like the
Mega-Vision digital camera back for medium format.
'MS soon to be gone'??? last yr MS was responsible for 23 percent of the global sales of flash memory storage. measured in units. of those were about 2/3rds used in image storing. the formats loosing most ground last yr - in units sold - were SM and CF. facts provided by GFK - one of biggest companies in market research.Zaphod wrote:
I am not worked up. I just find it a bit annoying that they keep
trying to switch the standard and they keep failing. Like SM, MMC,
the stick (soon to be gone), full size PCMCIA is getting rare, etc.
incompatible??? that's a pretty bold statement for a product that isn't even released yet. with all new OLYMPUS and FUJIFILM cameras - for starters - utilizing the new format, and 3rd party companies making auxiliaries for the new format, your idea of XD being incompatible somehow looses credibility faster than an average flash card can write down a jpg.XD cards are not uncomfortable, they are incompatable.
Nik,no, not really. coz at our company we take pride in KNOWING THE FACTS.
and personally, i think you'd benefit too if you adopted the same
kind of thinking before starting a thread like this one, in which
you're making such STUPID REMARKS about things that it is so
obvious you know VERY little about.
rgds,
Nik Coolpix
Hmm... that's an odd combination - accusing the other side of STUPID remarks followed by "regards". For the record, both Phil of this site's fame and Steve of Steve's Digicams voiced serious doubts about the need for yet another proprietary memory format - and they presumably know a thing or two about the subject. For the moment XDs are still limited to the same 128Mb - 256 is promised in December - more often than not promised dates are not kept; recall that when Memory sticks were introduced we were also offered an ambitious development curve - to 1GB within a couple of years. XDs are not compatible at this point with any other devices (unlike SDs which you can move from your camera to camcorder to cell phone - multimedia, as you said) - and since they were introduced by camera makers, they will likely be confined to cameras and related products, like photo printers, for some time. I'm certainly not calling for boycott, little we can do anyway, but I don't quite see it as progress, more like trying to profit from proprietary technology, for which Olympus is known unfortunately (e.g. its overpriced flash accessories, restricting its panorama function to Olympus cards, etc.)no, not really. coz at our company we take pride in KNOWING THE FACTS.
and personally, i think you'd benefit too if you adopted the same
kind of thinking before starting a thread like this one, in which
you're making such STUPID REMARKS about things that it is so
obvious you know VERY little about.
rgds,
The CCD determines the quality of the photo while the memory is the length of the "roll of film." In general, the smaller the film, the smaller the camera. The Elph is smaller than the Sure Shot and the Sure Shot is smaller than the Hassleblad 501 which is smaller than the Sinar p2 which is smaller than a Deardorf 8x10 etc etc etc.Your statement is an oversimplification.
The idea of APS was suppose to make photography simple for the
masses. A lot of marketing research went into it. It was not as
successful as the industry was hoping for.
If you want to compare film to the digital world you have to
compare it to the CCD chip or whatever imaging chip your cameras
uses.
Mor like a run for YOUR money.The SD memory chip from Panasonic was a good idea and a lot of
companies have adopted it, but with the new XD memory card, I
believe it may give the SD card a run for thier money.
Then Gene, go ahead and open your mind to an XD camera. I'll see watch you sell it on Ebay in a year. (and we'll debate about ZD memory in a year too).Enough people in this thread has tried to open your mind, but for
whatever reasons you don't care. That's your choice and you can
boycott whatever you want. I will not join you and the whole idea
is just silly to me. Take care.
