GH1 dilemma of an Indian

PhillipA · Dec 28, 2009

All I can tell you is that I've recorded 720P clips from my NTSC GH1 to standard DVDs (not Blueray) using the supplied software and they play back perfectly on my PAL 1080P Sony LCD from a standard (PAL I guess) DVD player.
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steveblack · Dec 28, 2009

bobboo said:
Thanks..

Did you mean to say if it is a NTSC version it will be problematic(dropdown issues) while writing to a DVD/Blue-ray in PAL ?

someone correct me, if I am wrong.

My understanding is that if you want to make a PAL equipment compatible disc, you need to rework the video in software to convert to PAL. Else your player & TV (modern TVs are can display NTSC) should support NTSC video. I am not sure HD formats are affected by the PAL/NTSC things. I am reading up more on this.

steveblack · Dec 28, 2009

PhillipA said:
All I can tell you is that I've recorded 720P clips from my NTSC GH1 to standard DVDs (not Blueray) using the supplied software and they play back perfectly on my PAL 1080P Sony LCD from a standard (PAL I guess) DVD player.

Did you make a DVD Video compliant disc by re-encoding the 720p clip or used DVD as a storage medium for the 720p clip? DVD video do not support 720p AFAIK.

Jerry_R · Dec 29, 2009

PhillipA said:
All I can tell you is that I've recorded 720P clips from my NTSC GH1 to standard DVDs (not Blueray) using the supplied software and they play back perfectly on my PAL 1080P Sony LCD from a standard (PAL I guess) DVD player

With what resolution? As MPEG-2?
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Best Regards,
Jerry_R

PhillipA · Dec 29, 2009

All I did was use the supplied software (PhotoFunStudio) to aquire the files from the memory card. I then selected the appropriate video clips and clicked "Output to" and selescted DVD. I think it then asked if I wanted HD or Standard Definition (which it advised was most suitable for domestic players) and it burned the files and closed the disk. At least I think that's what I did

as I also burned some video of a South African trip by a friend of mine, recorded on a Panasonic TZ7 and it might have been that that I burned with PhotoFunStudio and my GH1 clips with Nero Vision 4 - oh God, I'm so confused .... ! ;-)
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innov8 · Dec 29, 2009

bobboo said:
Thanks..

Did you mean to say if it is a NTSC version it will be problematic(dropdown issues) while writing to a DVD/Blue-ray in PAL ?

Thanks a lot for GH1 work flow link ....I will go through that as well as Wiki....

regards.

Think about it this way:

Getting a PAL GH1 which shoots at 25fps for viewing on PAL tv which refreshes at 50fps means that 25 frames are missing. The software simply doubles each frame to give you 50 frames. 1:2 pulldown.

In the NTSC GH1, the 24fps mode which gives 24 frames must be fitted into a 60 frame sequence. This means that the software has to convert the 24 into a 60 frame sequence. This requires that every third frame has to be doubled. 2:3 pulldown.

Clear as mud, I know!

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Full Disclosure: Equal parts gadget freak and photographer!

bobboo · Dec 29, 2009

yes...thanks...

25fps can be easily converted to 50 interlaced fields(or 25 frames,each frame=2 interlaced fields) per sec;by speeding up by 4%,that's what the camera itself does in PAL version.In case of NTSC, the cam performs 2:3(or 3:2) pulldown to get 60 interlaced fields( or 30 frames) per sec from 24p. Better I would summerise (please correct if I am wrong):

PAL video: 25 frames/sec,50 interlaced(or progressive i.e. 50 p) fields/sec

NTSC video:30frames/sec,60 interlaced(or progressive i.e. 60 p) fields/sec

Cam shoots at either 24 fps or 25 fps.

For 24fps sensor output :

innov8 said:
2:3 pull down needed for converting to 30 fps of NTSC.

innov8 said:
2:2 pulldown needed for converting to 25 fps of PAL

For 25fps sensor output :

innov8 said:
no pulldown needed for converting to 25 fps of PAL,only need interlacing.

innov8 said:
need slowing down by 4% [(25-24)100/25] for converting to 24fps (for film printing) and then need 2:3 pull down for 30fps of NTSC.

Please clarify-

When do you guys (with NTSC cam in PAL regions and vice-versa) notice flicker? shooting the subject under light? or shooting the source light itself ???

innov8 · Dec 29, 2009

Hey, you may be trying to cross bridges that you may never come across. For all you know, your purposes may be served by using the supplied software, like PhilipA, ie. straight from camera to DVD.

State your requirements: are you going from GH1 to DVD, bluray or film(!)?

Flicker should normally not be a worry: everybody is going HD today, so interlaced should be a thing of the past.

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Full Disclosure: Equal parts gadget freak and photographer!

bobboo · Dec 29, 2009

bobboo said:
24fps can be easily converted to 50 interlaced fields(or 25 frames,each frame=2 interlaced fields) per sec;by speeding up by 4%,that's what the camera itself does in PAL version.In case of NTSC, the cam performs 2:3(or 3:2) pulldown to get 60 interlaced fields( or 30 frames) per sec from 24p. Better I would summerise (please correct if I am wrong):

PAL video: 25 frames/sec,50 interlaced(or progressive i.e. 50 p) fields/sec

NTSC video:30frames/sec,60 interlaced(or progressive i.e. 60 p) fields/sec

Cam shoots at either 24 fps or 25 fps.

For 24fps sensor output :

bobboo said:

2:3 pull down needed for converting to 30 fps of NTSC.

Click to expand...

bobboo said:

2:2 pulldown needed for converting to 25 fps of PAL

Click to expand...

For 25fps sensor output :

bobboo said:

no pulldown needed for converting to 25 fps of PAL,only need interlacing.

Click to expand...

bobboo said:

need slowing down by 4% [(25-24)100/25] for converting to 24fps (for film printing) and then need 2:3 pull down for 30fps of NTSC.

Click to expand...

Please clarify-

When do you guys (with NTSC cam in PAL regions and vice-versa) notice flicker? shooting the subject under light? or shooting the source light itself ???

bobboo · Dec 29, 2009

may be..

I may go for NTSC GH1, the price is dropping fast there... will the trend continue?

my usage....DVD/blueray,webcasting. what's your opinion?

thanks

innov8 · Dec 30, 2009

Flicker happens only with interlaced formats like the old ntsc/pal dvd transfers at 525 lines with 60 alternate fields interlaced to give 30fps. All the new software give workarounds for this problem while transferring to dvd and all the new dvd players support 525p (progressive scan).

dvd: use the supplied software
bluray: follow the dvxuser workflow

webcast: use the 25fps mode, which was made for HD youtube, giving lower bitrate and requiring less bandwidth

You'll probably be better of signing up at dvxuser or dvinfo, as the preponderance of the threads here are for still photography. Read through the old threads before you ask questions there, I'm sure the posters would like you to be up to speed with the basics!

Hope THAT helped!

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Full Disclosure: Equal parts gadget freak and photographer!

innov8 · Dec 30, 2009

Yeah the NTSC GH1 are very tempting and for a home video freak, it wouldn't matter NTSC or PAL: I'm sorely tempted!

As for prices going down, yes again, they are already offering body only sale, which is even going to tempt still image hobbyists because of the articulated LCD and the small size.

Regards
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Full Disclosure: Equal parts gadget freak and photographer!

bobboo · Dec 30, 2009

thanks...

I am seriously thinking of doing some short films & documentaries with GH1.

You have advised for PAL version(25fps for webcasting) again,.. but not explained how the NTSC version(24 fps) will be wrong for me?

Just another doubt...is it possible to get 24fps as AVCHD output (on card) from the cam instead of 60i (or 25 fps instead of 50i) ?

Regarding price, I meant the downfall is seasonal (X-mas/New year) or will it continue?

Ya dvxuser has a lot of info.got registered there... thanks again for your concern for me...

regards.

innov8 · Dec 30, 2009

You should read this:

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/04/30/panasonic-lumix-gh1-first-impressions-and-first-footage/

Keep clicking through the posts on the blog.

24fps/25fps are both ok for webcast:

Quote

Shooting 24 p makes a lot of sense, especially today when a lot of HD content is streamed over the internet. Progressive video at 24P is the most efficient way of capturing HD content for internet streaming, in terms of size. But yes 24 p is not the most important feature you should be looking for especially when its not too tough to downconvert.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadgets-computers-software/71566-dslr-video-discussion.html

You can get 24 fps out put on the GH1

The price fall will continue. But if you can, buy now: you can never put a price on time lost.

Blimey, do you guys always go ballistic whenever a matinee idol dies of a heart attack? I can't fly out because of the work stoppage!

bobboo said:
thanks...

I am seriously thinking of doing some short films & documentaries with GH1.

You have advised for PAL version(25fps for webcasting) again,.. but not explained how the NTSC version(24 fps) will be wrong for me?

Just another doubt...is it possible to get 24fps as AVCHD output (on card) from the cam instead of 60i (or 25 fps instead of 50i) ?

Regarding price, I meant the downfall is seasonal (X-mas/New year) or will it continue?

Ya dvxuser has a lot of info.got registered there... thanks again for your concern for me...

regards.

--
Full Disclosure: Equal parts gadget freak and photographer!

bobboo · Dec 30, 2009

Thank you so much....

Oh you are talking about some movie star's death here, right?

I don't know much....not from this state originally.

people do many strange things... you can't program people here.

For many people here( from economically/socially backward,rural & urban slums especially over south India),movies are part of people's lives and the stars are demigods... Their psychoanalysis would be complex...

Educated urban Indians are totally different ...rather indifferent....they seem flat...without emotions...

bobboo · Dec 31, 2009

Is it available in Korea? at what price?

mdman · Dec 31, 2009

The other fly in the ointment is the frequency of any lighting used in the scene.

From Barry Green at dvxuser.com said:
But there's a danger to going with 1/50th, if you're in a USA/NTSC territory and shooting under older fluorescent or HMI magnetic-ballast lights. That danger is that the 1/50 shutter will interact with the 60Hz lights and cause rolling waves of fluttering in your images. Same will happen in a PAL territory if using 1/60 shutter under 50Hz lights.

bobboo said:
So -- if you're in the USA, you can use 1/50 in daylight, under tungsten, or when you're CERTAIN that the HMI or fluorescents you're using are high-frequency electronic ballasts. But if you're not 100% certain, just go with 1/60th and don't risk it.

bobboo said:
In the PAL territories you're pretty safe with 1/50 across the board.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=191593&highlight=50hz&page=2

I have a PAL GH1 and can confirm, from viewing footage of a recent US trip, that rolling waves of flutter occur (with nil to varying intensity) under indoor US lighting at 50fps.

I don't know how well this would have worked if I'd set the shutter speed to 1/60th instead. I do know that getting from 50fps to 25p is easy whereas 60fps to 24p involves a pulldown bag of hurt (and time). So I'm glad I got the PAL version

bobboo · Dec 31, 2009

thanks a lot for such a nice response....

bobboo · Jan 1, 2010

Please suggest me some reputed camera stores in USA and Singapore.Are you aware of the current Singapore price?

Regards.

innov8 · Jan 1, 2010

Cathay?
MS Color?
John 3:16?

2150/- SGD
http://forums.vr-zone.com/digicams-photography/465394-info-needed-lumix-gh1.html

Quote

It’s easy to correct for this circumstance with a global shutter – just match the shutter speed to the light frequency. But it’s not possible to do so with a rolling shutter system – instead, you’d have to turn off the offending lights and substitute in your own, high-frequency or constant-source lighting (constant source being a non-ballasted light system, such as tungsten lighting).

http://www.dvxuser.com/jason/CMOS-CCD/

bobboo said:
Please suggest me some reputed camera stores in USA and Singapore.Are you aware of the current Singapore price?

Regards.

--
Full Disclosure: Equal parts gadget freak and photographer!

GH1 dilemma of an Indian

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