OT: Don't use Zonealarm

rgojr · Sep 17, 2002

This is slightly off topic but it might help some of you:

I had Zonealarm Personal Firewall installed on my Win2k machine and it was working fine for about 3 months. I then upgraded it to the newest version, which happened to coincide with the same week that I upgraded my machine - in stages - with a USB 2.0 CF Card reader, SIIG PCI USB 2.0 5 port card, Canon s9000, 120GB WD HD, photoshop 7.1 and my Dimage 7i.

I installed each component separately and let it run for 2-3 days to ensure stability before installing the next component. After about 3 weeks everything was working great and I had no complaints. Then all hell broke loose and I was getting the dreaded blue screen of death in the NTFS.sys driver. yup, i thought i was in for a long and drawn out swap fest until i could isolate which new component was the problem and causing my machine to BSOD about once every 5-7 hours. To make a long story short, I've been swapping, upgrading/replacing drivers and calling HP tech support for 2 months trying to figure out what dirver is causing the problem (HP Cust. Service is awesome btw, they sent me a new mother board no questions asked just to eliminate it as a possibility!).

Anyway, 2 days ago, I finally resigned myself to the fact that I was going to have to reinstall Win2k and about 25 applications to fix this problem. Before I started digging for CD's, ordering a pizza and reinstalling, I ran the problem by a friend/fellow IT guy just to make sure i wasn't missing anything. Sure enough, he had run into a problem with ZoneAlarm and uninstalled it and his BSOD problems vanished. Basically ZA was corrupting it's own log file and when it errored out, didn't have an error code to report to the system and it would BSOD. So, I uninstalled ZoneAlarm and my 5-6 hour consistent BSOD problem is gone. Machine has been up and running for over 36 hours without a hitch and all my new HW/SW is running fine.

So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL FIREWALL.....

When I think of all of the time I wasted trying to fix this it makes me ill.....

R
--

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so

RickS · Sep 17, 2002

R.,

A question and a comment ...

What version of ZA are you referring to?

I have done hundreds of installations of ZA, both personal and pro, in 98, ME, NT 4 and 2K without the problem you described. Did you discuss it with Zone Labs? (I guess that's a second question.)

Rick

relate22 · Sep 17, 2002

I have been using ZoneAlarm on my Win2k machine for years with no problems. I did uninstall the latest vers3 and went back to 2.6.84 after version 3 took too long to boot up.

rgojr · Sep 17, 2002

The latest version of the free download. And yes, I told ZA about it, more than once, no response.

I still don't have a BSOD since I removed it...

Basically it's a conflict with the true vector engine and the log files.
or example:
0000: 46 69 6c 65 20 22 43 3a File "C:
0008: 5c 57 49 4e 4e 54 5c 49 \WINNT\I
0010: 6e 74 65 72 6e 65 74 20 nternet
0018: 4c 6f 67 73 5c 5c 48 4f Logs\\HO
0020: 4d 45 2e 6c 64 62 22 20 ME.ldb"
0028: 77 61 73 20 63 6f 72 72 was corr
0030: 75 70 74 20 61 6e 64 20 upt and
0038: 68 61 73 20 62 65 65 6e has been
0040: 20 64 65 6c 65 74 65 64 deleted
0048: 2e 00 ..

win2k doesn't let you copy paste the problem description from the Event Log/App log, and it's too long to retype.

Right after this entry, is the savedump in the event log, each and every time.

R

RickS said:
R.,

A question and a comment ...

What version of ZA are you referring to?

I have done hundreds of installations of ZA, both personal and pro,
in 98, ME, NT 4 and 2K without the problem you described. Did you
discuss it with Zone Labs? (I guess that's a second question.)

Rick

--

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so

rgojr · Sep 17, 2002

my machine was rock solid with the previous version, all my problems started with the new version. Regardless, I dumped that POS app and installed a HW firewall/router today.... and yes, the machine is still solid as a rock.....
R

relate2 said:
I have been using ZoneAlarm on my Win2k machine for years with no
problems. I did uninstall the latest vers3 and went back to 2.6.84
after version 3 took too long to boot up.

--

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so

RJ19495 · Sep 18, 2002

I to have problems with the lastest version of Zone Alarm on win 98.

It will not let me on the internet. I had to uninstall it. Kept getting message about True Vector not working. I had the free version so I can't complain to much. I hope on the next version I can get it to work...I like ZA.

RJ

RGOJR said:
I still don't have a BSOD since I removed it...

Basically it's a conflict with the true vector engine and the log
files.
or example:
0000: 46 69 6c 65 20 22 43 3a File "C:
0008: 5c 57 49 4e 4e 54 5c 49 \WINNT\I
0010: 6e 74 65 72 6e 65 74 20 nternet
0018: 4c 6f 67 73 5c 5c 48 4f Logs\\HO
0020: 4d 45 2e 6c 64 62 22 20 ME.ldb"
0028: 77 61 73 20 63 6f 72 72 was corr
0030: 75 70 74 20 61 6e 64 20 upt and
0038: 68 61 73 20 62 65 65 6e has been
0040: 20 64 65 6c 65 74 65 64 deleted
0048: 2e 00 ..

win2k doesn't let you copy paste the problem description from the
Event Log/App log, and it's too long to retype.

Right after this entry, is the savedump in the event log, each and
every time.

R

RickS said:

R.,

A question and a comment ...

What version of ZA are you referring to?

I have done hundreds of installations of ZA, both personal and pro,
in 98, ME, NT 4 and 2K without the problem you described. Did you
discuss it with Zone Labs? (I guess that's a second question.)

Rick

Click to expand...

--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent disinclination to do so

Andrew Harvey · Sep 18, 2002

I abandoned ZA about two months ago since I heard about the problems with the new version, also the free version of ZA doesn't have all the features I was looking for. I now use Outpost Firewall by Agnitum. It is Freeware, is feature rich including (sorry Phil) ad-blocking and passes the "stealth" test on Steve Gibson's Shields Up site ( http://www.grc.com ). It is available from http://www.agnitum.com/products/outpost/ and other download sites. I use it constantly on Windows ME, NT4, XP Home and XP Pro without any problems

Andy.

Ted B.47613 · Sep 18, 2002

I have the latest version of ZA, running under XP Pro and it works beautifully. What's a blue screen?

So the moral of the story is: Don't believe everything someone posts in a forum.

RGOJR said:
So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine
before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine
is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't
broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

Shay Stephens · Sep 18, 2002

I have been using ZA for years, I am now running XP and have never had a problem with ZA on either 98, ME, 2000, or XP. I purchased ZA and have upgraded since then.

RGOJR said:
NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

That is a pretty drastic leap you have there. Because you had a problem, everyone needs to dump it...I don't think so.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

I miss my camera

rgojr · Sep 18, 2002

Thanks for calling me a liar, I appreciate it.
R

Bogie said:
So the moral of the story is: Don't believe everything someone
posts in a forum.

RGOJR said:

So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine
before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine
is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't
broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

Click to expand...

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus
transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

--

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so

Wm. L. · Sep 18, 2002

Software firewalls are a STUPID purchase if you want security and reliability. They almost all use the OS’ native IP stack – a most common Achilles heel in terms of security. Just watch how most of your system’s IP stack is replaced when you do an upgrade or patch. General purpose computers are not reliable compared to network appliances. Bottom line: Cisco PIX – nothing really better – can be had for less than $500, and great port blocking firewalls can be had for $100 or less. Some of the latter even have serial ports and print servers. Bottom line: $100-500 US buys a rock solid superior device, and good policy and practices are still required.

rgojr · Sep 18, 2002

it's up to you whethere you dump it or not, personally I don't care. My machine is now stable and ZA is in the recycle bin.
R

Shay Stephens said:
RGOJR said:

NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

Click to expand...

That is a pretty drastic leap you have there. Because you had a
problem, everyone needs to dump it...I don't think so.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

I miss my camera

--

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so

parent · Sep 18, 2002

When I downloaded the free version of Zone Alarm, it blocked our Internet access even after manual configuration. You can go to viosoftware.com and purchase Norton Internet Security for about $20. It includes a firewall, anti-virus, parental control, and pop-up stopper. That price also includes shipping. Well worth the investment.

RGOJR said:
This is slightly off topic but it might help some of you:

I had Zonealarm Personal Firewall installed on my Win2k machine and
it was working fine for about 3 months. I then upgraded it to the
newest version, which happened to coincide with the same week that
I upgraded my machine - in stages - with a USB 2.0 CF Card reader,
SIIG PCI USB 2.0 5 port card, Canon s9000, 120GB WD HD, photoshop
7.1 and my Dimage 7i.
I installed each component separately and let it run for 2-3 days
to ensure stability before installing the next component. After
about 3 weeks everything was working great and I had no complaints.
Then all hell broke loose and I was getting the dreaded blue screen
of death in the NTFS.sys driver. yup, i thought i was in for a long
and drawn out swap fest until i could isolate which new component
was the problem and causing my machine to BSOD about once every 5-7
hours. To make a long story short, I've been swapping,
upgrading/replacing drivers and calling HP tech support for 2
months trying to figure out what dirver is causing the problem (HP
Cust. Service is awesome btw, they sent me a new mother board no
questions asked just to eliminate it as a possibility!).

Anyway, 2 days ago, I finally resigned myself to the fact that I
was going to have to reinstall Win2k and about 25 applications to
fix this problem. Before I started digging for CD's, ordering a
pizza and reinstalling, I ran the problem by a friend/fellow IT guy
just to make sure i wasn't missing anything. Sure enough, he had
run into a problem with ZoneAlarm and uninstalled it and his BSOD
problems vanished. Basically ZA was corrupting it's own log file
and when it errored out, didn't have an error code to report to the
system and it would BSOD. So, I uninstalled ZoneAlarm and my 5-6
hour consistent BSOD problem is gone. Machine has been up and
running for over 36 hours without a hitch and all my new HW/SW is
running fine.

So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine
before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine
is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't
broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

When I think of all of the time I wasted trying to fix this it
makes me ill.....

R
--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent disinclination to do so

Ted B.47613 · Sep 20, 2002

Someone who has made a mistake in their evaluation of ZA, based on too small a statistical sample. Too broad a generalization, based on only anecdotal information.

I'm sure you hate ZA, but others love it. How would you feel if someone went around saying "Don't talk to RGOJR!"?

I'm simply attempting to bring balance to an overstatement.

RGOJR said:
Bogie said:

So the moral of the story is: Don't believe everything someone
posts in a forum.

RGOJR said:

So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine
before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine
is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't
broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

Click to expand...

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus
transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

Click to expand...

--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent disinclination to do so

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

rgojr · Sep 20, 2002

WHile i might have been a bit over zealous in the thread topic, there was no mistake made concerning my experiences with the current release of the product. If you care to see other opinions of the product from people who have had similar experiences, feel free to search on zonealarm on CNET and you can make up your own mind. In hind sight I shouldn't have made the thread topic so dramatic, however, there is no mistake that ZA was the cause of my 2 months of BSOD's. It's a fact.
R

Bogie said:
I'm sure you hate ZA, but others love it. How would you feel if
someone went around saying "Don't talk to RGOJR!"?

I'm simply attempting to bring balance to an overstatement.

RGOJR said:

Bogie said:

So the moral of the story is: Don't believe everything someone
posts in a forum.

RGOJR said:

So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine
before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine
is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't
broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

Click to expand...

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus
transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

Click to expand...

--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent disinclination to do so

Click to expand...

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus
transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

--

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so

Ted B.47613 · Sep 20, 2002

I fought a problem for 6 months, caused by a conflict between cheap memory and a picky motherboard. I re-installed Windows 98 & 20 CDs of software about 6 times in every conceivable way. Then I switched to Windows 2000, tried several more installs, but the problem got worse. That problem made me think Windows was junk and I almost bought a Mac, just to escape it. But I posted on the Mac Advocacy forum and the replies, and especially the Mac user's bickering about THEIR OS problems convinced me I'd just be exchanging one set of familiar problems with a different set of unfamiliar problems and a steep learning curve for dealing with them. Then I called Asus and they pointed me to the memory I was using (R-Kbyte) as being sub-standard and not compatible.

Right now, I'm dealing with a problem 'apparently' caused by a defective Maxtor 60gb 7200rpm drive. The first one died, and it's replacement causes a different problem. The system will just lock up solid, with the HD access light on. A substitute identical drive (I have two of them) does not cause the problem. But it's hard to see how this is caused by the HD. I'ts also hard to deny, given the results when I swap the two drives.

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, BTW. Sorry for that.

Ted

RGOJR said:
Bogie said:

I'm sure you hate ZA, but others love it. How would you feel if
someone went around saying "Don't talk to RGOJR!"?

I'm simply attempting to bring balance to an overstatement.

RGOJR said:

Bogie said:

So the moral of the story is: Don't believe everything someone
posts in a forum.

RGOJR said:

So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine
before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine
is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't
broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

Click to expand...

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus
transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

Click to expand...

--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent disinclination to do so

Click to expand...

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus
transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

Click to expand...

--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent disinclination to do so

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

pdqgp · Sep 20, 2002

No one is calling you a liar, but come on....posts like yours are not true for everyone. With so many factors that lead to the problem, you hardly have the same PC as anyone replying to your post.

Your problem is your problem and based on your system and config. It could be something simple or complex, but my three systems are fine and rock solid with the latest ZA and numerous combo's of software and hardware set ups in place.

Given that I can't hardly say "it's the best and use it 100% great" just as you shouldn't make such a blanket statement.

That's all. No one is flaming you.

RGOJR said:
Bogie said:

So the moral of the story is: Don't believe everything someone
posts in a forum.

RGOJR said:

So the moral of the story is this: Buy Ghost and Ghost your machine
before adding anything new, don't apply patches if you're machine
is working fine and they're not going to fix anything that ain't
broken, and above all, NEVER EVER USE ZONEALARM PERSONAL
FIREWALL.....

Click to expand...

--
D30, two quarters, three dimes, 1 nickel, 7 pennies, and 1 bus
transfer

My Galleries: http://home.attbi.com/~keylargographics/

Click to expand...

--
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn
from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their
apparent disinclination to do so

Richard Akerman · Sep 21, 2002

I use ZoneAlarm Pro on XP Home, Sygate on Win98, and something else I forget on Windows 2000. People's experiences will differ depending on their individual configs.

I have information on home broadband security at

http://www.akerman.ca/trojan-port-table.html

(If you're wondering about the URL, it started out about Trojan programs, but ended up about broadband security.)

Ruffian · Sep 21, 2002

Wm. L. said:
Software firewalls are a STUPID purchase if you want security and
reliability. They almost all use the OS’ native IP stack – a most
common Achilles heel in terms of security. Just watch how most of
your system’s IP stack is replaced when you do an upgrade or patch.
General purpose computers are not reliable compared to network
appliances. Bottom line: Cisco PIX – nothing really better – can be
had for less than $500, and great port blocking firewalls can be
had for $100 or less. Some of the latter even have serial ports and
print servers. Bottom line: $100-500 US buys a rock solid superior
device, and good policy and practices are still required.

WORD!!!
--
http://printerboyweb.net/G2

Dave W · Sep 21, 2002

Bogie,

I am fighting a similar problem with a couple of Maxtor 80MB external firewire drives. I would be interested in your solution.

Dave

Bogie said:
Right now, I'm dealing with a problem 'apparently' caused by a
defective Maxtor 60gb 7200rpm drive. The first one died, and it's
replacement causes a different problem. The system will just lock
up solid, with the HD access light on. A substitute identical
drive (I have two of them) does not cause the problem. But it's
hard to see how this is caused by the HD. I'ts also hard to deny,
given the results when I swap the two drives.

OT: Don't use Zonealarm

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