Who is disappointed SONY disabled A mode with manual lenses after DSLR-A700?

They were not fired, they where brain washed, all of them ;-)

Idem.
I think there are some extremist people here ... jeez ...

I mean, do you all feel good trying to make Sony "name" go down and down the drain, just for pure fun, without any fundamentals?

And, i'm one of those that really never looked at sony as the best of the best ... and it's not because i bought a Alpha that i will change my opinion ...

But, Phi, you amongst many, are always "shooting" Sony.

Always the same thing... And 99% it's "My opinion is that ... " without having the minimum clue about what's happening on Sony's headquarters ...

Oh boy, sorry, but these posts just ... just...

This will be the last post i will write about "people vs sony" because everyone is grown up here ( or they should be ) and forward is the way to take.

--
Shooting with: A550, Minolta 24mm f2.8, Sony 50mm
f1.4, Sony CZ 16-80 & Minolta 100-200 f4.5
Light by Metz 48 AF-1
Flickr photostream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24358740@N07/

´Sonylized´, kind of...

Alec said:

BTW, my own vote is (c)

With my A900, I use:

Schneider PC SuperAngulon 28mm f/2.8 shift lens

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Alex, I am DROOLING at the thought of what kind of images this combo produces! That is a superb lens, and with the detail the a900 can provide, I bet you are getting stuff that looks like you had a large format monorail available to you...

I think that Phixel was trying to rationalise an otherwise inexplicable decision made by Sony - what , in your wisdom Russel , is your explanation for the omission of metering when using manual lenses ?
--
Keith-C

All of them have little chips in the head that say, it small letters .... "PS3" ehehhe
--
Shooting with: A550, Minolta 24mm f2.8, Sony 50mm
f1.4, Sony CZ 16-80 & Minolta 100-200 f4.5
Light by Metz 48 AF-1
Flickr photostream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24358740@N07/

KEITH-C said:

I think that Phixel was trying to rationalise an otherwise inexplicable decision made by Sony - what , in your wisdom Russel , is your explanation for the omission of metering when using manual lenses ?
--
Keith-C

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Exactly Keith! Nice to see there are still some adults on this forum. It amuses me to no end that people get so upset about a little well deserved criticism on this forum of a giant corporation ! Sony is not a person folks, so don't worry about ruffling their feathers a bit. If it makes some feel better, just consider my criticism of Sony's decision making as "tough love" for their own good!
-Phil

My vote goes to option B - currently, this doesn't affect me, and likely won't for a while sinc my nexct camera will hopefully be the A700, but it's definately something that Sony needs to fix - especially since, from what you say, the metering system is still fully functional, but the camera refuses to act upon the metering info. Very puzzling.

--

I'd love to engage in a battle of the wits with you, but it appears you're unarmed.

maurus_e said:

once in a while I wonder whether how my old MD 100/2.5 would work on a DSLR. I loved in in the film days.

As far as I understand there are no glassless adapters, so I probably won't try... or are there?

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There aren't, if you care to preserve infinity focusing. However there are folks who offer replacement Alpha mounts that fit on the lens instead of the RF (MC/MD) mount flange. Those maintain the correct distance scale and infinity focusing.

F

I would like Sony to restore "release without lens" as a menu option, but I normally shoot in manual mode with my dedicated lenses, so it's not much of a problem doing the same using alternative glass with my a850.

Alex,

I'd appreciate you offering your thoughts (and link to any images you might have) on the Shcnieder PC lens. I've been holding out for a CZ 35mm f/2.8 PC distagon, but it is apparently a very rare lens.

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Regards,
Graham

'I photograph to find out what something will look like photographed.' -Garry Winogrand

Alec said:

On all Minolta bodies since film days as well as through SONY DSLR-A700 inclusively, if you attached any lens or optical instrument without any electronic contacts, the camera worked just fine in A (Aperture Priority) mode. It did not try to work the aperture lever, and more importantly it metered the light and automatically set the shutter speed accordingly.

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I will note this is not entirely true. Though there were generally ways around it or one had choices. With my first DSLR, the Minolta RD-175 it was necessary to go into a service mode and lock out the lens check. We did that when we first got our RD-175s and never messed with it after that as it stayed locked out unless you went back into service mode and changed it back. I've examined over two dozen RD175s over the years, and every one somebody had locked out the lens check.

Alec said:

(c) This omission directly affects the way I use my camera right now, adding an unnecessary step to the workflow. I want SONY to fix this ASAP.

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It would be if I bought any of the currently in production Sony DSLRs. But I'm using the last Sony DSLR to have done it right, the a700. The lens check is turned off in the menu in both my a700s. I did that when I first got each camera, and had checked it could be done before buying the cameras.

Alec said:

(d) This feature is a significant one among those that actually prevent me from investing (more) in the Sony Alpha system.

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Indeed it is. But it's not the only thing Sony has been coming up with to cripple their cameras.

As far as using M mode, that assumes you can come up with a correct exposure setting. In many cases the light is varying way too fast to be manually setting exposure. And in ones like flash, even determining the correct setting at all will be very tough. In macro it would have to be calculated, and most likely it would end up limiting you to a few specific macro setups rather than the infinitely variable macro that one can easily do if the camera's exposure metering is doing the setting. You do not have that kind of detail in flash exposure setting in any case.

As far as RoM chips, not all equipment could be fitted with RoM chips or would involve considerable expense. For instance, I, myself have macro and tilt shift lenses that already have a non-chipped A mount on them. To fit a Rom on those would involve disassembly of a working lens, precision machining of the location for the Rom, buying a custom programmed Rom and fitting it in. If I could afford it there is a Minolta 35mm shift lens on ebay right now I'd love to have, and for a small charge they will fit it with a non rom A mount.

I have already looked through this. To convert all that I use that could be converted to proper custom Rom chips (not the generic ebay stuff) would cost me in excess of $500 for the most used stuff or over $1000 if I converted everything. (that's doing my own machining and does not count what that would cost to hire) That's quite a surcharge on top of the price of something like any of Sony's advanced DSLRs.

BTW, how many of the new folks do digiscoping? Digiscoping is a inexpensive way to long tele in P&S land. Got a Rom chip in that setup?

Something that requires a minor programming change in the camera. A programming change that would not be any problem for those who use only chipped lenses.

Walt

can you or someone else point me to someone doing this (replacing the mount) in Europe (or even where I live i.e. Germany)?

--
http://www.pbase.com/maurus_e/

no text

I believe Pete Ganzel has been making some for Rokkor and an outfit called Leitax offers some for Leica R lenses.

Graham Best said:

Alex,

I'd appreciate you offering your thoughts (and link to any images you might have) on the Shcnieder PC lens. I've been holding out for a CZ 35mm f/2.8 PC distagon, but it is apparently a very rare lens.

--
Regards,
Graham

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Graham,

I've not much interesting from this lens online at the moment as I've been focusing on my home studio stuff to build the biz and get some better cashflow. The Schneider lends itself to fine art and interior/exterior architecture, and these markets are very much impacted right now at least as far as yours truly is concerned. Still I 'll offer my commentary on the lens:

1. I absolutely love the quality - not surprising it's from a design house as well-reputed as Zeiss or Leica. Sharpness, microcontrast, bokeh are beautifully balanced. Performance easily par with my 28/2 at same apertures or better - I've not tested on res. charts - I intend to. If you google it some consider it the best shift lens ever - but I have no way of comparing to everything else. My basis for comparison is limited to the above mentioned and 35/2.8 Russian shift lens, 35/2.8 Minolta Rokkor shift lens, and Pentax 6x7 system shift lens. And non-shift AF Minolta and Zeiss 24-70 optics.

2. Pretty simple and functional design - a screw controls the shift and you can shift it in any direction. Aperture is controlled by a lever.

3. B&H carries this lens - I believe special-order. The mount flanges on this lens are user-changeable, held by 6 screws. Alpha flange is available along with many others. Lens + flange is about $2K. If Zeiss ever comes out with something similar for SONY, I expect it to be more (like $2600), but to have a chip. The aperture is controlled via a handy lever.

4. Would I like to have a chip and auto aperture? Sure; however on a shift lens in particular they add especially little value, because if you consider selecting the vantage point, setting the tripod, leveling the camera, selecting the shift value, etc., manually vs automatically stopping down the aperture is 0.0% of the total workflow.

5. I'll specifically state I do not miss the tilt feature on this lens. I feel tilt on lenses 35mm and wider is purely a gimmick considering the vast DOF you get at these focal lengths and working apertures. On a 50mm 100mm or 200mm macro lens is where I'd say we could really use a tilt feature. If it were up to me every lens 40mm and wider would have been a shift lens, and every macro lens (and some portrait lenses) in focal lengths 50mm...200mm, would have tilt.

6. The lens hood you see is actually metal, a costly extra. It is built to retain glass filters Schneider makes for it. You could put a clear filter in, for protection. A stupid design, as the hood screws in the filter thread rather than clamps on - so if you take off the hood you take off the filter, exposing the lens glass and the back of the filter. Think I'll just screw in a very thin conventional UV filter on there - the hood would most likely still work without vignetting.

7. All and all this lens has addressed the lack of first rate PC lenses on Alpha for me. Folks wanting 24mm and 17mm shift lenses should keep in mind that when shifted they produce a scary amount of peripheral stretch. This is due to basic laws of geometry if you insist on a rectilinear rather than fisheye projection. Try taking portraits with a 12...14mm lens on full frame and see what happens to people's heads or faces in the corners - a 17m when shifted produces an even more pronounced effect. 28mm is really the shortest f.l. where it looks relatively natural when shifted. Would I want a wider shift lens in addition to my 28mm and 35mm ones? Sure. But I would always use the longest one that still allows me to use a particular vantage point.

-- Alex

KEITH-C said:

I think that Phixel was trying to rationalise an otherwise inexplicable decision made by Sony - what , in your wisdom Russel , is your explanation for the omission of metering when using manual lenses ?
--
Keith-C

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The way Phixel worded his statement it sounded like he was stating a fact. As far as for your question, I could only state my opinion, which I have no facts to back it up. People on these forums argue opinions and speculations all day and every day with no facts to back them up. I read some of them, ignore most, but getting into long online arguments about them is kind of senseless to me. No one can actually win those kind of arguments. It just causes ill feelings between members and in the end no one knows anymore than when they started.

Sorry again about the misunderstanding, I thought Phixel actually knew that Sony fired all the Minolta engineers. My mistake for taking his post as a fact.
Russ
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/quietrvr/
Gear=A camera with a lens.

i have invested in third party hacks to get my manual focus lenses working.

i am seriously considering pentax and micro-four thirds as options, but the larger sensor is keeping me to sony.

I frequently use A mode with a manual lens on my A700 and would be reluctant to buy a Sony DSLR that lacks this option.

I really appreciate your thoughts. I think I'll start looking for the lens (although I'm aware of an EX copy on the market now for a bit over $1200). I'd still need to change the mount and purchase a hood, but I should be able to get out for under $1500.

I realize you've gone above and beyond on answering my questions, but I have a few more. How do you find CA with the lens, and how much ghosting do you see with the sun in the frame?

It's a pity there isn't more info and tests with this lens available on the net. I'd also love the option of renting the lens before laying down the cash. Maybe Matt at Alpha Lens Rentals would be interested in putting a Schneider PC in his inventory.

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Regards,
Graham

'I photograph to find out what something will look like photographed.' -Garry Winogrand

--

If the absolute truth is that a boulder is falling on your head, 'your truth' has little relevance at that moment.

Cheers,

Shimbabwe