Are A5xx cameras really "poorly featured"

Depends on what camera features you want.

If it is MLU and DOF and the other features that are frequently mentioned on this negative board, then YES the A550 is "poorly featured".

BUT, if you want GREAT IMAGE QUALITY, TRUE LIVE VIEW, STATE OF THE ART DYNAMIC RANGE, TOP OF THE LINE LCD, ROCKET FAST OPERATION, FACE RECOGNITION and a host of other cool features, then the A550 is THE MOST FULLY FEATURED CAMERA IN THE UNIVERSE AT ANY PRICE. And for under $1K it absolutely blows away any and all competition. There really is no #2.

But, NO ONE offers it all - at any price. YOU have to prioritize.

Start with the features you want at the price you want and see what cameras meet your feature needs. For example if live view is not high on your list then the Sony A700 or the Nikon D90 are fantastic cameras, but if you want live view THEY are "poorly featured". Start with what you want and stop calling all the rest "poorly featured". They all offer a compelling mix of wonderful features and are fantastic choices.

Most people with a brain see this clearly.

--
'Better' is the enemy of 'Good Enough'.

The a550 lcd is the same res as on the a700, or did you miss that?
Gene

Barry fixed lcd live-view, why even have it then. Say you are shooting a low shot about waist level, a fixed lcd no way to see the shot, but with a swivel screen guess what now you can see it.

Some people go with Canon or Nikon by name alone, not all but some. Also you have sales people pushing those as well and not Sony.
Gene

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Danel said:

You were one of the posters I have seen claim that the cameras are poor featured. I do agree that I would like to see some of the things you have in your list included in the A5xx cameras. I just question what the price of the camera would be with all of the features you list.

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I would imagine similar to another major rival..

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Well, the only major rival that would come close to the list you put up and still meets the sub $1000 price point is the D90, and that camera still lacks some of the items on your list. I have the D90 and it is a very nice cam no doubt. I do like it very much because it does many things very well.

However, I also like the A500 for the stabilization I get on all lenses, the fold out LCD with two types of live view, the built in HDR, and a few other things that it does slightly better than the D90. The D90 was also somewhat more expensive than the A550 when it was first released and quite a bit more than the A500 that I bought. If you go another step down the Nikon food chain and you start running into cameras that don't even have a built in focus motor.

Member said:

Member said:

Some of your items are actually down grades from the A5xx which is curious. Care to explain why you think 4fps is better than 5fps? Why is a fixed LCD better than one that folds out? I think Sony put their highest res LCD on the A550 so I'm not sure what you mean when you say a higher res LCD. Apparently the IQ between the 14 and 12 MP sensors is nearly identical. Don't you think having a 14 MP sensor on bullet list would actually sell more cameras? I think it has been proven that MP count sells.

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I'm simply looking at what other makers are offering, sure 4fps is the min I would have expected in this price range, but we know fps is not everything.

Fixed LCD, again I am looking at 1 very big manufacturer and asking where their swivel LCD's are.

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So now Canon is your model? Canon has been accused at different points in time to be lacking in the innovation department. There really is nothing wrong or bad in having a swivel or flip LCD IMHO.

Member said:

I am not making an argument for stopping LV models, simply suggest that it's very unwise to do so at the "expense" of other users.

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I don't know that there needs to be an expense of any kind in having LV with a flip out LCD. Sony's "fast LV" option with the second sensor does seem to reduce the OVF size with its present implementation. Still, even with that reduction we still end up with an OVF that is nearly identical in size to the Canon Rebels and the Nikon D5000 and lower. Of the Canikon cameras that came to market under a $1000, only the D90 has a significantly improve OVF over the A5xx cameras.

When the D90 replacement comes out next year I will likely be looking to get it and sell off my D90. I'll give you a good deal on it if you are interested. Of course you will have to live with the matrix metering that I have seen you complaining about over on the Nikon forums.

to get right to the point..... no

Danel said:

Having said that, it still seems odd that the cameras that have the fastest fps in their class, the best live view options available, the only HDR mode in their class, a better image stabilization option vs the big boys (canikon), a huge improvement in high ISO performance versus any other sub $1000 camera Sony has ever produced, and the best battery life in class, to be criticized as being "poorly featured".

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For me, not a one of those "features" are of any importance or interest. They are periperal at best to the primary function of a DSLR camera as a camera for stills. At least in the very extensive variety of ways I use a DSLR.

Got anything else? Or is that it? I see, and you say a bunch of standard features were left off as well. Features that are routinely used here and there in my photography?

Poorly featured depends what sort of photography one does. For me it's poorly featured for DSLR Still photography.

Walt

When you look at a camera, it can only be poorly featured in relation to another or for your needs.

So how do you look at the A500 & A550 ?

Are they high end entry level cameras ? If so, they're not poorly featured. I'd argue the A550 is a tough sell due to price, but sales may speak for themselves.

Are they low end enthusiast models ? If so, they're poorly featured.

I'm not in the market for a new camera, so I personally don't care what they have.

But finally, you have to look at the lineup. We have 5 entry level bodies, NO midrange body (the A700 is still available in some places; until recently, it was prohibitively expensive for some), and then 2 high end FF bodies.

So in the context of a lineup I'd suggest that some camera should have those features; in the absence of a midrange model, the A550 seems the obvious choice, and I'd further suggest that even when an A7xx arrives, Sony ought to offer a sub-$1000 camera for enthusiasts who prefer a cheaper or smaller camera (like the A100 some years ago).

So is the A550 poorly featured ? Yes. No. Maybe. All depends on how you look at it.

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

No they're not poorly featured. In fact, depending on your priorities, the A5xx cameras are incredibly well-featured compared to any competitor. The weird thing is that some of what's missing (customization options, DOF preview, program shift, quick navi etc) is essentially zero cost and already exists in other Alpha models.
SJ
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com

Don't think its poorly featured, but wrongly packaged instead ..

The type of customer who might be drawn to the A550 instead of the A330/380 is the type that demand more and that mean a lot from the camera. Those missing MLU, DOF preview is simply viewed as one area of how this is. That is Sony had chosen to put together a Mid range Amateur model but put it in a entry level manner. Its all about usage .. its whole usage and control is in fact no different than that of the A230/330/380 loosely speaking.

When Sony puts out the A700, it was rightly criticized for not taking the Minolta 7D's packaging , and in a way the story is repeated with the A550.

Feature and performance is of no use if the photographer find it hard to employ or unable to get to those in a timely controlled and stright and forward manner .. ( again why the 7D heil as always one of the best DSLR from a photographer usage POV )

In a way the A550 is a better consumer body instead of a mid range Amateur/Hobbyist body. But the fact is consumers are better served by the like of A330/380 ( especially now they are seeing pretty deep price slashing making the deal even better ). So of course the Amateur / Hobbyist is not happy about it, as many puts it, they await the real A700 replacement or they go for the A850 instead

--

• Franka -

Simon Joinson said:

No they're not poorly featured. In fact, depending on your priorities, the A5xx cameras are incredibly well-featured compared to any competitor. The weird thing is that some of what's missing (customization options, DOF preview, program shift, quick navi etc) is essentially zero cost and already exists in other Alpha models.

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You're bang on the nail Simon - even the Sony apologists can't explain the missing features other than to say that these models were deliberately cheapened to discourage experienced photographers from buying them !

If you want to be cynical Sony are punishing those who wanted an A700 but were not prepared to buy it at the price for which it was designed to sell originally. The Best Buy sell-off fiasco in the US drew attention to the fact that people wanted a cheaper, well specified model so eventually Sony were forced to drop its asking price.

Now Sony have produced a model , the A550, which is seemingly well specified but have removed certain features which they know more experienced & intelligent buyers value. I'm sure that some clever marketing group thought that these buyers would quickly migrate to the hastily concocted A850 & that everyone would be happy but the plan backfired because they underestimated the number of experienced users who still prefer APS-C to Full Frame because it seems to give them higher magnification & smaller image files.

Now that they have realised their mistake they have been forced to 'leak' the info that an A700 replacement is coming at some vaguely unspecified date in the future. I say leak because they have not seen fit to release this information via the world centres which sell the bulk of Sony DSLRs.
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Keith-C

Dennis said:

So in the context of a lineup I'd suggest that some camera should have those features; in the absence of a midrange model, the A550 seems the obvious choice, and I'd further suggest that even when an A7xx arrives, Sony ought to offer a sub-$1000 camera for enthusiasts who prefer a cheaper or smaller camera (like the A100 some years ago).

So is the A550 poorly featured ? Yes. No. Maybe. All depends on how you look at it.

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I completely agree with you, the A550 in my opinion is very well featured for LV folks and JPEG shooters, but for someone like me who prefer to use the OVF and shoots RAW all the time these features are not so important.

I dont say the current cameras should not have the HDR and the fast LV with smile detection and stuff like that, i just want sony to think also at those who just want MLU, Program Shift and DOF Preview but dont want to spend a fortune on a high end camera. They even removed the ISO from the viewfinder completely on the A500/550 (in my A200 i can see the ISO atleast when i am changing it). Why are you taking this features away from us sony? .
The A100 was a good camera in this regard though.

KEITH-C said:

Simon Joinson said:

No they're not poorly featured. In fact, depending on your priorities, the A5xx cameras are incredibly well-featured compared to any competitor. The weird thing is that some of what's missing (customization options, DOF preview, program shift, quick navi etc) is essentially zero cost and already exists in other Alpha models.

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You're bang on the nail Simon - even the Sony apologists can't explain the missing features other than to say that these models were deliberately cheapened to discourage experienced photographers from buying them !

If you want to be cynical Sony are punishing those who wanted an A700 but were not prepared to buy it at the price for which it was designed to sell originally. The Best Buy sell-off fiasco in the US drew attention to the fact that people wanted a cheaper, well specified model so eventually Sony were forced to drop its asking price.

Now Sony have produced a model , the A550, which is seemingly well specified but have removed certain features which they know more experienced & intelligent buyers value. I'm sure that some clever marketing group thought that these buyers would quickly migrate to the hastily concocted A850 & that everyone would be happy but the plan backfired because they underestimated the number of experienced users who still prefer APS-C to Full Frame because it seems to give them higher magnification & smaller image files.

Now that they have realised their mistake they have been forced to 'leak' the info that an A700 replacement is coming at some vaguely unspecified date in the future. I say leak because they have not seen fit to release this information via the world centres which sell the bulk of Sony DSLRs.

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KEITH-C said:

--
Keith-C

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Your scenario is brilliant Keith! It fits the facts and makes more sense than all the Sony apologists put together. If this is true than it also supports my belief that Sony went wrong after they introduced the a700 with their pursuit of a full frame camera system that would not be supported financially by professional photographers , but rather rely on well heeled amateurs willing and able to pay the premium price to realized their fantasy of owning a FF digital SLR. But the a900 never sold well and became a money loser for Sony. Then the world economy changed and what little chance their FF plans had of succeeding as a money maker vanished. It is my contention that the introduction of the a850 was not the beginning of a move by Sony to make FF cameras affordable to amateurs (this would be so unlike Sony corporate culture), but rather it was an act of desperation to keep the FF camera and lens program going by enticing APS-C users to "move up" to FF. Unfortunately for Sony, it is not working.

I believe that the FF camera part of the Sony Alpha division is a serious money loser for Sony and is bringing down their entire Alpha division while being propped up by the APS-C cameras.

Sony should have spent their development moneys on better built cameras with better features nd introduced a full and complete line of "G" lenses just for APS-C and then developed and introduced an EVIL camera system like Panasonic did with the G1 cameras. But it never happened.

In hindsight, Sony should have done a lot of things differently, and no doubt they know that now with their admission of single digit market share of their DSLRs in the US. What Sony will do with this financial and marketing mess is anyones guess, but unless something changes soon, I would not be willing to bet Sony will continue making full frame DSLRs for just the prestige and cache' value alone.
Even Sony has to turn a profit.

-Phil

Danel said:

Well, the only major rival that would come close to the list you put up and still meets the sub $1000 price point is the D90, and that camera still lacks some of the items on your list. I have the D90 and it is a very nice cam no doubt. I do like it very much because it does many things very well.

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As said, I won't hold up the D90 as perfect, but it's much more aligned to what some uses want, that's all.

Danel said:

However, I also like the A500 for the stabilization I get on all lenses, the fold out LCD with two types of live view, the built in HDR, and a few other things that it does slightly better than the D90. The D90 was also somewhat more expensive than the A550 when it was first released and quite a bit more than the A500 that I bought. If you go another step down the Nikon food chain and you start running into cameras that don't even have a built in focus motor.

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Agree, I don't find entry Nikon even worth looking at, however..AF motor and wireless flash aside, I don't find entry Sony worth looking at either!

Danel said:

So now Canon is your model? Canon has been accused at different points in time to be lacking in the innovation department. There really is nothing wrong or bad in having a swivel or flip LCD IMHO.

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Does not seem to be hurting Canon sales wise..that's my point.

Danel said:

I don't know that there needs to be an expense of any kind in having LV with a flip out LCD. Sony's "fast LV" option with the second sensor does seem to reduce the OVF size with its present implementation. Still, even with that reduction we still end up with an OVF that is nearly identical in size to the Canon Rebels and the Nikon D5000 and lower. Of the Canikon cameras that came to market under a $1000, only the D90 has a significantly improve OVF over the A5xx cameras.

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Again, D90 shows a mid level body with mostly good features and a good pentaprism OVF.

I don't find 0.80x mag that impressive to be honest, it's just about passable for super budget..

I'm not worried that the D5000 has a hmm ish VF either, because they offer a choice, Sony don't.

Gene Tenold said:

The a550 lcd is the same res as on the a700, or did you miss that?
Gene

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No I was simply banding a spec together for what I would consider a fairly decent mid point DSLR, nothing more! I just slapped the high res in there, but truth is..if it were not higher res, that wouldn't even bother me a lot either.

Simon Joinson, Keith-C and Phixel hit it right on the nail. I "cascaded" my old A700 to my son and purchased a new A700 at £500. There was'nt a replacement and I was not going to migrate to FF. I then "cascaded" my old A350 to my wife and intended to replace it with the A550, until I found out that ISO100 was missing, no P shift and low ISO performance perhaps not as good at the A350. I ended up buying another A350 on ebay for £300 (nearly new and spotless). So Sony missed two opportunities to sell me a new camera because they did not have a replacement for the A700 and the A550 was short of DOF, MLU, ISO100, Pshift, intermediate ISO levels and "weak" on low ISO where I do most of my photography. Frankly I do not need my camera to "fire" when people are smiling. No thanks. So Sony could have included all these items for next to nothing and if they had restricted ISO to 100-6400 with good quality low ISO I would have bought the A550 even if it cost a bit over £600 rather than slightly less. Thos wishing to spen less could have bought the A500. I agree that Sony have messed up. It really is a shame because the A700 with v.4 is such a good camera and would have formed an excellent base from which to perhaps develop an inproved A750 using the 14Mp sensor but with a focus on class leading ISO performance from ISO 100 to ISO 6400. Who is going to use a "grainy and discoloured" ISO 12,800 anyway. That is for a 12Mp FF camera.

Rick

While I don't find the lack of certain features to be as frustrating as you do, I generally agree with your assessment. Thanks for your comments.

Dan

fjbyrne said:

Danel said:

Yes, I realize that these cameras could have been better if they had included things like MLU, DOF preview, AF assist light, etc. I have no argument with the concept that inclusion of these features would have been a better thing to do and I do not plan to make any excuses for Sony not putting them in to both cameras.

Having said that, it still seems odd that the cameras that have the fastest fps in their class, the best live view options available, the only HDR mode in their class, a better image stabilization option vs the big boys (canikon), a huge improvement in high ISO performance versus any other sub $1000 camera Sony has ever produced, and the best battery life in class, to be criticized as being "poorly featured".

As an alternative way of looking at things, would folks have been happier if the cameras shot 3 fps, had no live view, had no hdr, had the lesser version of DRO, had high ISO images that were no better than the A350, had half the battery life, but included MLU and DOF? Would not Sony have then been criticized for lack of innovation? Yes, I know that we all would have liked to have had all the new features plus retained all of the old features. That certainly would have made the cameras more compelling. However, considering all of the features these cameras have as they are, is it fair to call them "poorly featured"? What do you all think?

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What you say has a lot of merit IMO. I think Sony got the big things right with the A5XX series. However I think they got the little things wrong by omitting things like MLU, etc. To me it takes the getting the big and little things right to make a great camera.

So in my opinion:
Are they very good cameras? Yes.
Are the great cameras? No.
Would they have been great cameras it they had not omitted features? Yes.
Is it really frustrating that the omitted these features? YES

--
Rick

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They are fun cameras to use. I am certainly enjoying my A500. Is there an A5xx camera in your future?

vaughanbb said:

Danel said:

However, considering all of the features these cameras have as they are, is it fair to call them "poorly featured"? What do you all think?>

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I think that to call the A5xx series "poorly featured" is just laughable, the features that Sony have ommitted are exactly the features that I am happy to live without

Amazing live view, super fast AF, superb Tilt LCD, super fast burst rate, HDR, great metering, the list goes on.....people will always find something to whinge about, a large proportion of what is written on these forums is just garbage...it will always be that way, most people if handed a Sony DSLR would be very impressed with what is a lovely piece of technology

--
The photographer formerly known as Kodakuser



Sony A330/kit lens samples here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35161694@N03/sets/72157622495084386/

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Barry Fitzgerald said:

Danel said:

Well, the only major rival that would come close to the list you put up and still meets the sub $1000 price point is the D90, and that camera still lacks some of the items on your list. I have the D90 and it is a very nice cam no doubt. I do like it very much because it does many things very well.

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As said, I won't hold up the D90 as perfect, but it's much more aligned to what some uses want, that's all.

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Agreed. I think you are certainly correct on this one.

Member said:

Member said:

However, I also like the A500 for the stabilization I get on all lenses, the fold out LCD with two types of live view, the built in HDR, and a few other things that it does slightly better than the D90. The D90 was also somewhat more expensive than the A550 when it was first released and quite a bit more than the A500 that I bought. If you go another step down the Nikon food chain and you start running into cameras that don't even have a built in focus motor.

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Agree, I don't find entry Nikon even worth looking at, however..AF motor and wireless flash aside, I don't find entry Sony worth looking at either!

Member said:

So now Canon is your model? Canon has been accused at different points in time to be lacking in the innovation department. There really is nothing wrong or bad in having a swivel or flip LCD IMHO.

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Does not seem to be hurting Canon sales wise..that's my point.

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Well, Canon is the number one selling DSLR system to begin with. If they had flip out LCDs it's hard to know if they might sell even some more.

Member said:

Member said:

I don't know that there needs to be an expense of any kind in having LV with a flip out LCD. Sony's "fast LV" option with the second sensor does seem to reduce the OVF size with its present implementation. Still, even with that reduction we still end up with an OVF that is nearly identical in size to the Canon Rebels and the Nikon D5000 and lower. Of the Canikon cameras that came to market under a $1000, only the D90 has a significantly improve OVF over the A5xx cameras.

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Again, D90 shows a mid level body with mostly good features and a good pentaprism OVF.

I don't find 0.80x mag that impressive to be honest, it's just about passable for super budget..

I'm not worried that the D5000 has a hmm ish VF either, because they offer a choice, Sony don't.

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I think this point has merit. Certainly I like having the "choice" of using the D90.

WaltKnapp said:

Danel said:

Having said that, it still seems odd that the cameras that have the fastest fps in their class, the best live view options available, the only HDR mode in their class, a better image stabilization option vs the big boys (canikon), a huge improvement in high ISO performance versus any other sub $1000 camera Sony has ever produced, and the best battery life in class, to be criticized as being "poorly featured".

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For me, not a one of those "features" are of any importance or interest. They are periperal at best to the primary function of a DSLR camera as a camera for stills. At least in the very extensive variety of ways I use a DSLR.

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So having a stabilized body is of no use to you?

WaltKnapp said:

Got anything else? Or is that it? I see, and you say a bunch of standard features were left off as well. Features that are routinely used here and there in my photography?

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I simply listed the features where the A5xx camera are leading the competition. I understand that these features aren't what you are looking for and that's fine. Obviously these cameras are not for you. Like I wrote more than once above, I agree that adding back in things like MLU, an AF assist light, and most of the other stuff in Barry's list, would have been a much better way for Sony to have gone with these cameras. While these features would have added to the cost, the difference would have been small, and I would have been willing to pay extra for them.

WaltKnapp said:

Poorly featured depends what sort of photography one does. For me it's poorly featured for DSLR Still photography.

Walt

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So, would MLU, DOF preview, program shift, and more customization have added up to a "Highly Recommended" for these cameras? I'm asking because I'm wondering if the camera got a "Recommended" because of lack of key features or because you felt that the IQ was not up to snuff?

Simon Joinson said:

No they're not poorly featured. In fact, depending on your priorities, the A5xx cameras are incredibly well-featured compared to any competitor. The weird thing is that some of what's missing (customization options, DOF preview, program shift, quick navi etc) is essentially zero cost and already exists in other Alpha models.
SJ
--
Simon Joinson, dpreview.com

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