I am in the process of doing on-location portrait work and was thinking about offering a CD with pic's/proofs. What is that CD worth and what should I charge? Depending how I set up the CD, the client will be able to reproduce the photos. That is not necessarily bad, depending on how much I get for the CD.
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Pricing CD's w/Portrait Work
- Thread starter jdbeam
- Start date
Chuck Gardner
Veteran Member
What the CD is worth is entirely dependent on what you normally charge for the sitting and prints, and the average net income each client produces. Unless you are going to produce the same or more net income doing the CD's its not very smart move businesswise.
If you gross $200 per subject, print materials costs are $100, your labor is $50, ammortization of your equipment / overhead, etc. is $10, your profit is $40 per subject.
If you substitute a $1 CD blank for the prints, and your labor, overhead, and profit are the same you could price the CD only package at $101 and produce the same net income.
But you'd be shooting your self in the foot professionally by sellin just the CDs because your reputation, which is priceless, will hinge on all ablility of your clients to produce a decent print.
The only way I'd offer a CD is as a bonus to a minimum print order. Only if the client order is $200 (i.e., your average gross) should you offer the CD for a nominal charge of say $10.
Chuck Gardner
If you gross $200 per subject, print materials costs are $100, your labor is $50, ammortization of your equipment / overhead, etc. is $10, your profit is $40 per subject.
If you substitute a $1 CD blank for the prints, and your labor, overhead, and profit are the same you could price the CD only package at $101 and produce the same net income.
But you'd be shooting your self in the foot professionally by sellin just the CDs because your reputation, which is priceless, will hinge on all ablility of your clients to produce a decent print.
The only way I'd offer a CD is as a bonus to a minimum print order. Only if the client order is $200 (i.e., your average gross) should you offer the CD for a nominal charge of say $10.
Chuck Gardner
Keith Aitken
Veteran Member
Agree completely with Chuck, however the CD can also be seen as a
form of advertising/promotion etc. If you set up a CD with ( say ) 50kb
proofs, those would certainly not be printable, but could whet appetites for
more printed images from you ....
At that rate, you could throw in the CD as a complimentary way
of increasing your trade
when people take prints.
Good Luck,
Keith
--
http://www.pbase.com/keith2
'If your ship does'nt come in, swim out to it'
form of advertising/promotion etc. If you set up a CD with ( say ) 50kb
proofs, those would certainly not be printable, but could whet appetites for
more printed images from you ....
At that rate, you could throw in the CD as a complimentary way
of increasing your trade
when people take prints.Good Luck,
Keith
--
http://www.pbase.com/keith2
'If your ship does'nt come in, swim out to it'
B
BillDrew
Guest
and a fairly knowledgeable computer user, I know I have a really hard time getting a good print. In particular, getting the color to come out right. But I'd really like to get a CD of my son's wedding pictures. I'd also expect to pay for it. Clearly you have to price it to be able to keep yourself going - hopefully, going well.
So I'd suggest only selling the CD along with some number of prints. Those prints would be a constant reminder that even though I have the CD, I'd be much better off going back to you for more prints than doing them myself. With any luck, you would offer a fair discount on the prints in recognition of the up-front payment I made for the CD. A note to that effect on the CD (text file and label) might generate orders for more prints.
Still looking for a wedding photographer for a St Paul MN wedding next June.
So I'd suggest only selling the CD along with some number of prints. Those prints would be a constant reminder that even though I have the CD, I'd be much better off going back to you for more prints than doing them myself. With any luck, you would offer a fair discount on the prints in recognition of the up-front payment I made for the CD. A note to that effect on the CD (text file and label) might generate orders for more prints.
Still looking for a wedding photographer for a St Paul MN wedding next June.
Joel Batts
Leading Member
Wow, excellent points and issues by Chuck, Bill and Keith.
I provide my clients with CDs that they can't print, copy or email the images. They can only view the images on the monitor. The program I use can encrypt the images on CD, but allow the viewers to use the included slideshow presentation both in auto and manual mode.
All don't offer wedding proofs or portrait proofs. Everyone gets a wedding CD or family portrait CD. They get to take it home and keep it. Yes, they can burn a copy CD and give it to their family and friends. Still they can not print them images. Your quality images on the CD will still be preserved and not effected by cheap ink jet printers.
I agree. Don't sell them the images on CD where they can copy, print or email the images as they wish. Your reputation and professionalism are attached to each of the image that leaves your studio in print form or otherwise.
Joel
E10 Image Gallery
http://home.earthlink.net/~jtbatts/Index.html
I provide my clients with CDs that they can't print, copy or email the images. They can only view the images on the monitor. The program I use can encrypt the images on CD, but allow the viewers to use the included slideshow presentation both in auto and manual mode.
All don't offer wedding proofs or portrait proofs. Everyone gets a wedding CD or family portrait CD. They get to take it home and keep it. Yes, they can burn a copy CD and give it to their family and friends. Still they can not print them images. Your quality images on the CD will still be preserved and not effected by cheap ink jet printers.
I agree. Don't sell them the images on CD where they can copy, print or email the images as they wish. Your reputation and professionalism are attached to each of the image that leaves your studio in print form or otherwise.
Joel
--Agree completely with Chuck, however the CD can also be seen as a
form of advertising/promotion etc. If you set up a CD with ( say )
50kb
proofs, those would certainly not be printable, but could whet
appetites for
more printed images from you ....
At that rate, you could throw in the CD as a complimentary way
of increasing your trade
Good Luck,
Keith
--
http://www.pbase.com/keith2
'If your ship does'nt come in, swim out to it'
E10 Image Gallery
http://home.earthlink.net/~jtbatts/Index.html
as a customer:
No way I ever pay for prints from a photographer...
a good lab can make any size print cheaper especially
when I order quantity ... I only pay for time for
taking the photos as well as burning a CD ... but
thats it... and there are enough around who will do it..
Wedding photografie is not an art ... its a trade ...
just like computer programming is not an art .. its a trade
Photographie becomes art when the picture is good enough
and interesting enough to attract many viewers or buyers,
who are not in a way related to the subject... meaning
creating a wider interest and acceptance than only relatives
or guests from a wedding party .. I am not interested in
anybodys wedding ... but I am interested to look at well
composed, carefully researched images which tell something
or touch me in any way ...
I define the art of creative and/or documentary photographie
as the skill and talent to visualise emotions and moods and
touch unrelated viewers...
I define wedding photographie as a trade of a skilled person
spending his/her time againts payment to completely document
an event. The skill is to make the right picture at the right time
and make them all and also reasonably good ... but has nothing
to do with art ... sorry guys and girls .. no offense intended
just my personal view...
The same applies to press photographie ...
Nevertheless you can have wedding or press photos being art ..
but thats one in 10000 or more images.
Digital will not change this for me ... it just makes creating the
CD cheaper .. thats all...
my 2c
gmd
No way I ever pay for prints from a photographer...
a good lab can make any size print cheaper especially
when I order quantity ... I only pay for time for
taking the photos as well as burning a CD ... but
thats it... and there are enough around who will do it..
Wedding photografie is not an art ... its a trade ...
just like computer programming is not an art .. its a trade
Photographie becomes art when the picture is good enough
and interesting enough to attract many viewers or buyers,
who are not in a way related to the subject... meaning
creating a wider interest and acceptance than only relatives
or guests from a wedding party .. I am not interested in
anybodys wedding ... but I am interested to look at well
composed, carefully researched images which tell something
or touch me in any way ...
I define the art of creative and/or documentary photographie
as the skill and talent to visualise emotions and moods and
touch unrelated viewers...
I define wedding photographie as a trade of a skilled person
spending his/her time againts payment to completely document
an event. The skill is to make the right picture at the right time
and make them all and also reasonably good ... but has nothing
to do with art ... sorry guys and girls .. no offense intended
just my personal view...
The same applies to press photographie ...
Nevertheless you can have wedding or press photos being art ..
but thats one in 10000 or more images.
Digital will not change this for me ... it just makes creating the
CD cheaper .. thats all...
my 2c
gmd
William Night
Leading Member
Right. If you drop the selling-prints section of the business, charge more up front to compensate.
The nice part of this business model is that you can probably make more with charging less (overall).
It's a good idea but I'd change the pricing a bit, charge a bit more up front and give them the CD + (sample) prints for 'free'.
I agree that customers can't do a great job on home printers, but some of the $500+ photo printers do an excellent job. And now that even small labs are starting to accept digital files to print from the customer has a lot of valid choices that don't involve bad pictures. Yours may still be better, but your costs are higher for sure, once you've got a great print in their hands for advertising reasons this probably isn't an area you wish to compete in.
steve dunning70670
Active member
Joel
What you do is the kind of thing that seems to be the best way: the customer gets a CD (cheap to you, high perceived value to them) but can't use the images (keeps your image pure, no bad prints by them, has to go to you for reprints)
Great! The only other way I know is by actually giving them a DVD, where apparently the images can't be separated and printed off if they're part of the presentation (video stream? I don't know)
BUT, Joel, what is the software you use? I tried looking for something similar on the net using Google but I can't find it. Please let us know if it's commercially available!
Cheers
Steve Dunning
http://www.stunningphoto.com
Steve Dunning
http://www.stunningphoto.com
What you do is the kind of thing that seems to be the best way: the customer gets a CD (cheap to you, high perceived value to them) but can't use the images (keeps your image pure, no bad prints by them, has to go to you for reprints)
Great! The only other way I know is by actually giving them a DVD, where apparently the images can't be separated and printed off if they're part of the presentation (video stream? I don't know)
BUT, Joel, what is the software you use? I tried looking for something similar on the net using Google but I can't find it. Please let us know if it's commercially available!
Cheers
Steve Dunning
http://www.stunningphoto.com
--
Steve Dunning
http://www.stunningphoto.com
B
BillDrew
Guest
Keep in mind that you are giving the CD to someone who knows how to use a computer. Even if your customer can't break the encription, the 12 year-old next door might be able to figure it out. For sure get something that can't be broken by simply reading a file with a hex editor. You might want to talk to , the author of QImage ( http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/ ). I recall seeing a note from him muttering about folks breaking the encription on his shareware (got in the way of his free update policy).
Encription breaking is only going to get easier in the future.
Also, they will be able to grab screen shots. Not good enough to print, but sort of OK for the web. For sure they will be used that way by a fair percentage of your customers. So you might as well give them unencripted low resolution images.
Joel Batts
Leading Member
Steve,
I use FlipAlbum Pro 4.0. Get the pro version if you can affort it. The pro version gives you unlimited license to make cd copies. The current version is 5.0 Professional ($139.950). Up to date my clients love the niffty slideshow of FilpAlbum and its 'digital' proof album features with flipping pages. Both slideshow and album page flipping features can be done on auto or manual. Users can also customize the slideshow features and page flipping.
My 4.0 version works with Win 98/98SE, Me and XP. I haven't tested it with Win 95 and 2000 yet. Check FlipAlbum web site for additional info. You can purchase the software online or from Fry's Electronics (where I bought mine) and Micro Center. I'm sure other stores carry them too. You might have to look around.
http://www.flipalbum.com
Good luck,
Joel
P.S.: If you get the 5.0 version let me know if it's any good.
E10 Image Gallery
http://home.earthlink.net/~jtbatts/Index.html
I use FlipAlbum Pro 4.0. Get the pro version if you can affort it. The pro version gives you unlimited license to make cd copies. The current version is 5.0 Professional ($139.950). Up to date my clients love the niffty slideshow of FilpAlbum and its 'digital' proof album features with flipping pages. Both slideshow and album page flipping features can be done on auto or manual. Users can also customize the slideshow features and page flipping.
My 4.0 version works with Win 98/98SE, Me and XP. I haven't tested it with Win 95 and 2000 yet. Check FlipAlbum web site for additional info. You can purchase the software online or from Fry's Electronics (where I bought mine) and Micro Center. I'm sure other stores carry them too. You might have to look around.
http://www.flipalbum.com
Good luck,
Joel
P.S.: If you get the 5.0 version let me know if it's any good.
--
E10 Image Gallery
http://home.earthlink.net/~jtbatts/Index.html
steve dunning70670
Active member
Joel
Thanks for that - I've gone to their site and I will probably buy the pro version when I get a handle on my business model for home portraits. IMHO Bill is kind of right that all encryption cn be broken, but it depends on whether it's worth it for the customer - maybe they don't want to spend two days fafing about when they could but a print direct... I don't know.
steve dunning
http://www.stunningphoto.com
Thanks for that - I've gone to their site and I will probably buy the pro version when I get a handle on my business model for home portraits. IMHO Bill is kind of right that all encryption cn be broken, but it depends on whether it's worth it for the customer - maybe they don't want to spend two days fafing about when they could but a print direct... I don't know.
steve dunning
http://www.stunningphoto.com
Any video production application can include high-quality photo slideshows on a DVD. The data on the DVD cannot be used for high quality prints because it is at the DVD resolution of 720x350. I use Cyberlink PowerDirector Pro. It is only $95.00 and easy to use.
On a different point - how many of you keep negatives for 20-30 years? After 10 years of marriage a lot of my wedding prints are faded (our house is very sunny and they are exposed on walls). Our album is still ok but the pictures are starting to fade. I don't do weddings, but if I did, I would try to make a little more money by convincing my clients to purchase an "archival CD-ROM" in addition to prints (not instead of). That way their kids can use it for their 25th and 50th wedding anniversary celebrations.
Rich H
On a different point - how many of you keep negatives for 20-30 years? After 10 years of marriage a lot of my wedding prints are faded (our house is very sunny and they are exposed on walls). Our album is still ok but the pictures are starting to fade. I don't do weddings, but if I did, I would try to make a little more money by convincing my clients to purchase an "archival CD-ROM" in addition to prints (not instead of). That way their kids can use it for their 25th and 50th wedding anniversary celebrations.
--
Rich H
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