Compact cam with zoom AND manual control?

Hi!

I am in the market for a new camera. I did own the TZ5, and I quite liked the zoom and the different frame formats, since I am someone who likes to do most of the frame setting in camera instead of cropping later.

What I didn't like was the lack of manual control and the picture noise due to the rather high pixel density.

But with the new Travel Zooms the pixel density is even getting higher!

Is there a good travel zoom camera (not necessarily from Panasonic) with not too much noise and a little more than average manual control?

Thanks so much!

Matthias

Nothing off the top of my head. But would this help you?
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

Sterling
--
Lens Grit

@ 2.5x I'll assume the LX3 is out-of-the-question...

The top-o-the-FX line has a relatively wide 5 or 6x or thereabout with full manual control & there may be a canon of similar or possibly slightly more zoom with manual control...

Although probably a little larger than you intend, the FZ35 pretty much can't be beat with the most realistic zoom @ fast aperture, lacking only a hotshoe & tilt/swivel screen to be truly complete...

I'm pretty much not up on the other brands but might suspect Sony & Casio might have a candidate that might stretch out a little further than the FX or S90...

The LZ line (8 & 10) although low-end, hovering around the C-note price point have a modicum of semi-wide zoom with manual control & sport common AA battery power option, if proprietary don't float-your-boat...
That full manual control is elusive for the most part in pocket-shooters...
--

Matthias79 said:

Matthias79 said:

The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* rrawzz'a'gmail'dot'com * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *

Matthias79 said:

Matthias79 said:

Tz5aLx3Fz50Fz30C8080wzE100rsC2100uz

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What kind of things did you want manual control for?

When I was in the market for a camera a couple years back, I wanted something with manual control too, and ended up with the Panasonic FX500/FX520. However at the end of the day, I found that the manual controls on such a small sensor camera didn't really do all that much for me. I was shooting in aperture priority most of the time, but unless you're shooting in that mode to stop down, in most cases, the camera will have it wide-open anyway to try to get in enough light in most circumstances. And stopping-down to increase depth-of-field is a bit negligible for a small camera since the depth-of-field is already huge.

The only use I found for stopping down was maybe to decrease over-exposure due to the flash if necessary.

Shutter priority was maybe useful in a few situations, perhaps if I wanted to do panning shots of cars during the day, for example, when most program modes would pick a faster shutter speed.

But in most practical situations, I found that a lot of the things I could achieve with full or semi manual control over my FX520 could also be done with a simpler point-and-shoot provided you knew where to dig in the menu, or what scene mode to set it to.

At the end of the day, I now question whether I maybe should have gotten a compact camera with better high ISO performance. Anyway, that's just my thoughts. I think I would have been hard to convince against getting a camera with manual modes still now anyway. It does add a bit of fun to shooting. So I'm not wanting to discouraging you from looking for a manual point and shoot.

The main good thing about having manual and semi-manual modes available is that it did allow me to learn about how those modes work, so that when I would later upgrade to a Lumix G1, I was already quite comfortable with those concepts.

That said, my guess is that the high-end FX series (as already mentioned by another user) are the only compact Panasonic cameras that offer PASM modes other than the LX3. But the tele range of the FX series isn't anything near that of the TZ or the FZ series.

Within the Panasonic Line, I'd say the FZ35 is your best bet. Not as small as the TZ or Zs series, it is much smaller and lighter than a full-size DSLR-like camera.

It has 18X Zoom, full manual options plus the autyomativ scene-modes as well. Also, a good quality video.

I have it and am extremely happy wi it.

FZ35/38 will bag the wildlife in the treetops. No one else in our group managed a shot at this range - except one guy with a huge DSLR

hi!

thank you all so much for your answers! sorry i haven't been able to answer earlier.

yeah, i am obviously not really sure what i am actually looking for. my first impression when seeing the fz35 was "that looks too much like a real camera"

as you can see the issue goes deep

i think i want a compact camera, but unlike before i don't really need an ultra compact anymore (it used to be a criteria to be able to put it in the front pocket of my pants).

and after having thought about it i think to go for a large sensor to reduce noise is not the best way to go. too expensive and either camera too big or difference not really worth it.

i think i am gonna go for feature richness. which brings me to the tz7 (zs3). i used to own the tz5 and i loved it despite it's rather bulky size. i think now i don't care about size anymore (as long as it stays in the compact camera field...).

i can frame well with the three format options (are they still genuine like in the tz5 where the sensor was so big, that it could actually cover all frame aspect ratios, and no cropping was done?).

i have the awesome zoom which helps framing and occasionally is a nice tool for some shallow depth of field.

i have a great movie mode, which is a nice plus (i don't shoot movies that often).

and i do have SOME (but little) control over the settings. the max shutter setting is good if you wanna make sure a scene really is at full stop with no motion. together with the ISO setting i can indirectly control aperture a little, right?

i think the zx1 is just a little brother with less quality, so it's out of question. the better screen, movie button, and the bigger sensor for three genuine frame formats make the tz7 also way better then the tz6 (zs1), eh?

just some thought... enough of my yakkin'!

matthias

Matthias79 said:

hi!

thank you all so much for your answers! sorry i haven't been able to answer earlier.

yeah, i am obviously not really sure what i am actually looking for. my first impression when seeing the fz35 was "that looks too much like a real camera"

as you can see the issue goes deep

i think i want a compact camera, but unlike before i don't really need an ultra compact anymore (it used to be a criteria to be able to put it in the front pocket of my pants).

and after having thought about it i think to go for a large sensor to reduce noise is not the best way to go. too expensive and either camera too big or difference not really worth it.

i think i am gonna go for feature richness. which brings me to the tz7 (zs3). i used to own the tz5 and i loved it despite it's rather bulky size. i think now i don't care about size anymore (as long as it stays in the compact camera field...).

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You're in luck.. The SZ3 is even a tad smaller than the TZ5..

Matthias79 said:

i can frame well with the three format options (are they still genuine like in the tz5 where the sensor was so big, that it could actually cover all frame aspect ratios, and no cropping was done?).

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Once again, you're in luck.. The CCD is nearly 13mp but the largest 4:3 pic is only 10mp & the aspect ratios of all are essentially native sharing all full angles of view of 25mm diagonally just like the TZ's 3 & 5 before it, due to the over-sized CCD concept to accommodate all three aspects to their fullest...

Matthias79 said:

i have the awesome zoom which helps framing and occasionally is a nice tool for some shallow depth of field.

i have a great movie mode, which is a nice plus (i don't shoot movies that often).

and i do have SOME (but little) control over the settings. the max shutter setting is good if you wanna make sure a scene really is at full stop with no motion. together with the ISO setting i can indirectly control aperture a little, right?

i think the zx1 is just a little brother with less quality, so it's out of question. the better screen, movie button, and the bigger sensor for three genuine frame formats make the tz7 also way better then the tz6 (zs1), eh?

just some thought... enough of my yakkin'!

matthias

Click to expand...

Pretty much a win-win-sitch all-the-way-'round...
--

Matthias79 said:

Matthias79 said:

The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* rrawzz'a'gmail'dot'com * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *

Matthias79 said:

Matthias79 said:

Tz5aLx3Fz50Fz30C8080wzE100rsC2100uz

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If you want the functionnality and reach of the ZS3 but have to have manual control, you can have a look at the Samsung HZ15W.

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/photography/digital-cameras/compact/EC-HZ15WABP/US/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=features

The image quality is not quite as good as the Panasonic, but if you like what you see in posted images on the web, it fits the bill.

hi!

thanks again four your thoughts. it seems like the perfect camera for me.

also panasonic's approach to more noise less noise reduction artefacts is something i can appreciate. makes me miss RAW a little less.

in the dpreview group test the ZS1 has an even better image than the ZS3 (in most examples), but they both are far ahead of all the others. the mentioned samsung is not a camera i'd consider. the IQ is just too bad.

unless i find a serious problem with the ZS3 reading more here in the forum, i'll get it asap

cheers

matthias

Matthias79 said:

unless i find a serious problem with the ZS3 reading more here in the forum, i'll get it asap

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Just in case you want to see more examples of how well the ZS3 (TZ7) performs at all focal lengths and all lighting conditions, have a look at the 150+ ZS3 pictures I've uploaded to Flickr at this URL:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mirepapa/

As an example, these two particular pics I took last summer are featured there (both handheld, fully Auto):





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See my Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/mirepapa/

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nice! the second has some highlight clipping, but the first is awesome!

hey, only reason NOT to get the cam is that there might be a new model coming out in march, eh?

matthias

Matthias79 said:

nice! the second has some highlight clipping, but the first is awesome!

hey, only reason NOT to get the cam is that there might be a new model coming out in march, eh?

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Thanks for your appreciation and sure, it might be a new model in march, then it might be not.

Same happens with PCs, cellular phones, MP5 players, whatever. I don't jump through those hoops anymore, I'll get the best product there is right now and by the time the supposedly upgraded product supposedly arrives I'll already have been enjoying the one I bought for many, many months and will have taken advantage of a miriad opportunities to use it, opportunities which would've been otherwise lost while "waiting" .

Life's too short to wait for "the next best model which is around the corner" . When you get to that corner, you see yet another one in the distance. Sorry, I refuse to play that game but that's just me of course, you mileage may vary.

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See my Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/mirepapa/

.

After buying the TZ7 - your ZS3 - back in May, really just for its wider wide end, I've found a host of small improvements on my previous favourite carryaround, the TZ5.

There were some aggravations when I began using it, such as the week or so it took me to stop pressing the red video button, irritatingly placed just where I used to hold the TZ5. And I wasn't too keen on the less than sparklingly clean rendition of the screen, the loss of the E.Zoom button for going 28 to 300 and back, the almost pointless third option on the Macro button, and the slightly more moveable main dial position - however all their various awkwardnesses have proved easy enough to live with!

And then, one by one, I began to notice the improvements - not so much the video, but things like the immensely handy all-angle screen, the new Panorama-Assist mode, an extra Mode-preset on the main dial, the centred tripod bush, the change to an iris aperture (and the removal of the f/8-f/11 range used by the TZ5), the way the Focus Lock (tucked away in the Underwater mode) will now free itself if you zoom, and - most recently - the better AWB performance under the light of the new "warm" low energy bulbs we're using at home.

Sure I'll have forgotten some, but you'll find stuff on several of those here: http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/usingtz7_zs3

Hunting down spare Panasonic batteries took a while - and as I've only needed one on any day I wish now that had been all I bought, since they're far from cheap - but getting them delivered here is so awkward I got two.

Overall it's an improved camera, and not just the same one with a new lens stuck on the front!

Peter

--
Peter - on the green island of Ischia
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/recisch

TZ7 pictures: http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/tz7pics
Using the TZ5: http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde/tz5

Me again,

one concern I have is that if I'd buy it here in Germany, it's not only ridiculously expensive compared to the US, but also the video mode is restricted and the cam cannot record more than 15 minutes (due to tax restrictions).

BUT if I'd get a friend from the US to bring it over when she visites me, I'd get the 60fps instead of 50fps, which might not be too compatible with TV equipment here, eh?

Is there a firmware hack of some kind to remove the time restriction?

Thanks!

Matthias

Matthias79 said:

Is there a firmware hack of some kind to remove the time restriction?

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It's impossible.

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See my Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/mirepapa/

.

great!

not only is it more expensive, but it also can do less. awesome. i gotta ask that friend of mine to bring one over, i guess...

matthias

Hi!

I am about to let a friend bring the TZ7 (ZS3) for me from the US to Germany. The price difference: here 395$, in the US 250$.

Apart from the different name, and the fact that the US version is able to shoot more than 15 minutes of video (and with 60fps instead of 50fps), is there any other difference i should know of?

Thanks!

Matthias

Matthias79 said:

Hi!

I am about to let a friend bring the TZ7 (ZS3) for me from the US to Germany. The price difference: here 395$, in the US 250$.

Apart from the different name, and the fact that the US version is able to shoot more than 15 minutes of video (and with 60fps instead of 50fps), is there any other difference i should know of?

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.

None that I'm aware of. You know of course that those 60 fps actually are 30 fps with each frame being duplicated.

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See my Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/mirepapa/

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Yeah, I read that before - but thanks for mentioning it again. Same with the European version (50/25fps).

Why would Panasonic do that? I mean every TV would be able to deal with a 25/30fps input, eh?

Cheers

Matthias