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G3 - Mistake or Calculated Chance??

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Sheryl Katz said:
Unfortunately what I want is the size and weight of the ixus, the
long 10x stabilized zoom of the Pro90is or C2100, the macro
capability of the Nikon 99x series, and 5 megapixels, all this with
simple intuitive controls, options to take over manual control,
with great autofocus and good low light capabilities.
Click to expand...
Don't forget the solar-panel on top (to recharge the battery continuously by ambient light), and the espresso spigot.
Sheryl Katz said:
I also
realize that the things I want conflict, they simply aren't
possible in one camera.
Click to expand...
sigh Well, we can hope and speculate....
 
Frank R. said:
mahjungpan said:
I think the G3 is just a replacement of G2. Because of the crack
problem I wonder who is going to buy a G2 anymore when G3 is only
$100 more ? If I am Canon, I will just drop the production of G2.
Maybe that's why the G3 is not that much different from G2 (like G1
to G2). I think anyone wants a G something should wait for Canon
to come up with a competitor to Nikon 5700, G5 ? MJ
Click to expand...
I would regard the change from 3X to 4X optical zoom as a major
design change.
Click to expand...
Yup--completely new design of lens. But this sneaky little voice at the back of my skull is whining: "If they were going to redesign the lens anyway, why didn't they go further to, say, 6x?"

(And yes, I do know how complicated it is to put together an array of lenses for an optical system.)
 
IS has NOTHING to do with running a "sharpen" function, and everything to do with eliminating camera motion blur.

IS is completely separate from camera sharpening functions. It improves on your ability to the camera steady.
Frank R. said:
As far as IS is concerned, it's generally accepted that it's better
to sharpen in the digital darkroom, where you can adjust to taste,
Click to expand...
 
I would snatch up a 717 in a flash if I could figure out how to insert my microdrives.

Morris
Peter Guidry said:
717:
Shutter lag, full autofocus 0.63/0.65
Autofocus speed is exceptional - This is one of the very fastest
"prosumer" cameras I've tested to date, as of late August, 2002!

G3:
Shutter lag, full autofocus 0.94 - 0.80
Both figures are about average.

Well at least the G3 makes it up to average.
Snapshot7 said:
I have to believed Canon is either very stupid or very smart with
the release of the G3.

The problem is I'm not sure which !!!!

I have to wonder exactly WHO this camera is targeted for?

Any "newbie" to digital MIGHT not get past the fact that it has 4mp
versus 5mp from almost every other manufactuer. They also might be
put off by the lower magnification. I can also see salespeople
favoring other cameras with more attractive features over the G3
when a customer asks for the "best" compact digital camera.

And there is a good chance the people who will do the research and
(hopefully) find that the G3 takes better pictures with it's 4mp
than the others with 5mp already own a digital camera; maybe even a
G2.

Will those people feel the G3 is worth the upgrade?

I can't believe Canon is this stupid.

They have to know that without a 5mp/5x zoom or better camera to
compete against the current top contenders they will lose market
share.

And NO...getting a DSLR like the D60 is not an option for many in
the market for several reasons so trying to force people to that
conclusion will hurt their sales.

Canon has been many things recently.... but THIS stupid?!?!?!

I have to believe that come November or Christmas time we will see
something to compete with the 717's, CP5700's, and D7Hi's.

For Canon to not do this would be bad business.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
So you're saying I guessed "Internal Sharpening" when it should have been "Image Stabilizing"?
Gary Berg said:
IS is completely separate from camera sharpening functions. It
improves on your ability to the camera steady.
Frank R. said:
As far as IS is concerned, it's generally accepted that it's better
to sharpen in the digital darkroom, where you can adjust to taste,
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Frank R. said:
So you're saying I guessed "Internal Sharpening" when it should
have been "Image Stabilizing"?
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter; at least there is no such thing as IS being shortform for Internal Sharpening :-)

I'm thinking, if Nikon can dump a li-ion in the D-100 that has a slight edge in capacity over our Canon BP-511s, why couldn't they dump it on the CP5700? Then it would make a lot of sense, because many users at NTF said the EN-EL1 is too woeful for extended shooting periods compared to the MB-E5700 battery grip with 6xAA's.
--
http://printerboyweb.net/G2
 
To be honest, I believe the G3 is a strong indication that Canon is ready to drop the "G" line of cameras. I could be mistaken and we could always see the G4 in 2003, but I have strong reservations.

The G3 isn't meant to be "the next step," it's meant to be an upgrade, just like the G2 was an upgrade (rather successful I might add) to the G1. They perfected the camera from criticisms given to both the G1 and G2 models. Just look at the specs and compare them to Phil's complaints (as well as this very forum's early complaints) for the original G1.

The G3 isn't a stupid idea, it's not even a "mistake." It makes perfect sense, as it is meant to gradually but completely replace the G2. I myself just bought a G2 to upgrade from my G1, and even though I was well aware that the G3 was on the verge of being released, I decided that its improvements, although tempting, would not justify the expenses on my salary (I'm not exactly rolling in the dough at the time being). However, if I could afford it, I would have definitely gone straight to the G3. It has just the few little extra perks that I wanted in the G1. But what I'm most happy about, and the reason that I gave up my G1, was because of image quality. I sincerely believe that it was a very noticeable difference in favor of the G2. I haven't seen enough samples from the G3, and none in comparison with the G2, so I can't tell yet if they've improved on the image even moreso - although some seem to believe that they have. I'm inclined to believe it.

My point is, the G3 is most likely the last of the G-series of Canon digital cameras. Although I could be mistaken and they could release the G4, with 5+ megapixels and a 5x zoom... Who knows. For now, I'm happy with my brand new G2.
Snapshot7 said:
I have to believed Canon is either very stupid or very smart with
the release of the G3.

The problem is I'm not sure which !!!!

I have to wonder exactly WHO this camera is targeted for?

Any "newbie" to digital MIGHT not get past the fact that it has 4mp
versus 5mp from almost every other manufactuer. They also might be
put off by the lower magnification. I can also see salespeople
favoring other cameras with more attractive features over the G3
when a customer asks for the "best" compact digital camera.

And there is a good chance the people who will do the research and
(hopefully) find that the G3 takes better pictures with it's 4mp
than the others with 5mp already own a digital camera; maybe even a
G2.

Will those people feel the G3 is worth the upgrade?

I can't believe Canon is this stupid.

They have to know that without a 5mp/5x zoom or better camera to
compete against the current top contenders they will lose market
share.

And NO...getting a DSLR like the D60 is not an option for many in
the market for several reasons so trying to force people to that
conclusion will hurt their sales.

Canon has been many things recently.... but THIS stupid?!?!?!

I have to believe that come November or Christmas time we will see
something to compete with the 717's, CP5700's, and D7Hi's.

For Canon to not do this would be bad business.
Click to expand...
 
I'm quite certain that the picture quality produced by Canon's 4x zoom far exceeds that of the 8-10x zooms. It appears that Canon's feature choices for the G3 are all geared towards producing better quality photos.

The G3 sounds like a really exciting camera aimed at photographers who value quality at a reasonable price.

--Eric Fookes
http://www.fookes.com/portfolio/
Kevin Omura said:
M.P. Kooij said:
When they made the G1 they also released the Pro90. That was an
ideal combo. Now we have only the G3. dSLR is nice if you already
own Canon glas, but if you have to buy lenses the price of the body
doesn't make that much difference. I do not want to buy a dSLR i
want a G3 technologie with an 10x zoom IS lens and a few other
tricks if possible. I know i sound like a little child who did not
get his candy, but i'm free to write what i want (as long as i do
not offend people)
Click to expand...
Have to agree, a longer zoom would be nice. I did look at the new
Nikon 5700 but was disappointed in the way it manual focused (well
not that my G2 is any better).

Wonder if size was the consideration in Canon's case. Eg they were
trying to keep the small point and shoot form factor which a lens
with bigger zoom capabilities might negate.

Kevin
Click to expand...
 
Probably because the quality of pictures produced by a well-designed 4x zoom is noticeably better than a zoom with a greater range.

--Eric Fookes
http://www.fookes.com/portfolio/
log said:
Yup--completely new design of lens. But this sneaky little voice at
the back of my skull is whining: "If they were going to redesign
the lens anyway, why didn't they go further to, say, 6x?"

(And yes, I do know how complicated it is to put together an array
of lenses for an optical system.)
Click to expand...
 
I agree. The G3 is a refinement of the G2, but the fact that, among other things, the zoom 'upgrade' is relatively limited, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was soon to announce a camera to fill in the gap between G and D series... How about the P1? :-)

A week ago, someone said Canon would be releasing a 4MP S45 and a 5MP S50. If true, and the S50 is about to be announced, then it seems very odd that there would be no 5MP counterpart in the pro-sumer line.

A 5MP 6x zoom Canon P1 would be a killer-camera, and then the positioning of the G3 would make perfect sense.

Let's hope!
Yacine said:
The G3 isn't meant to be "the next step," it's meant to be an
upgrade, just like the G2 was an upgrade (rather successful I might
add) to the G1. They perfected the camera from criticisms given to
both the G1 and G2 models. Just look at the specs and compare them
to Phil's complaints (as well as this very forum's early
complaints) for the original G1.

The G3 isn't a stupid idea, it's not even a "mistake." It makes
perfect sense, as it is meant to gradually but completely replace
the G2. I myself just bought a G2 to upgrade from my G1, and even
though I was well aware that the G3 was on the verge of being
released, I decided that its improvements, although tempting, would
not justify the expenses on my salary (I'm not exactly rolling in
the dough at the time being). However, if I could afford it, I
would have definitely gone straight to the G3. It has just the few
little extra perks that I wanted in the G1. But what I'm most happy
about, and the reason that I gave up my G1, was because of image
quality. I sincerely believe that it was a very noticeable
difference in favor of the G2. I haven't seen enough samples from
the G3, and none in comparison with the G2, so I can't tell yet if
they've improved on the image even moreso - although some seem to
believe that they have. I'm inclined to believe it.

My point is, the G3 is most likely the last of the G-series of
Canon digital cameras. Although I could be mistaken and they could
release the G4, with 5+ megapixels and a 5x zoom... Who knows. For
now, I'm happy with my brand new G2.
Snapshot7 said:
I have to believed Canon is either very stupid or very smart with
the release of the G3.

The problem is I'm not sure which !!!!

I have to wonder exactly WHO this camera is targeted for?

Any "newbie" to digital MIGHT not get past the fact that it has 4mp
versus 5mp from almost every other manufactuer. They also might be
put off by the lower magnification. I can also see salespeople
favoring other cameras with more attractive features over the G3
when a customer asks for the "best" compact digital camera.

And there is a good chance the people who will do the research and
(hopefully) find that the G3 takes better pictures with it's 4mp
than the others with 5mp already own a digital camera; maybe even a
G2.

Will those people feel the G3 is worth the upgrade?

I can't believe Canon is this stupid.

They have to know that without a 5mp/5x zoom or better camera to
compete against the current top contenders they will lose market
share.

And NO...getting a DSLR like the D60 is not an option for many in
the market for several reasons so trying to force people to that
conclusion will hurt their sales.

Canon has been many things recently.... but THIS stupid?!?!?!

I have to believe that come November or Christmas time we will see
something to compete with the 717's, CP5700's, and D7Hi's.

For Canon to not do this would be bad business.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on; it is never of any use to oneself. - Oscar Wilde
http://www.ScottOwen.org
 
s©tt said:
I agree. The G3 is a refinement of the G2, but the fact that, among
other things, the zoom 'upgrade' is relatively limited, I wouldn't
be surprised if Canon was soon to announce a camera to fill in the
gap between G and D series... How about the P1? :-)

A week ago, someone said Canon would be releasing a 4MP S45 and a
5MP S50. If true, and the S50 is about to be announced, then it
seems very odd that there would be no 5MP counterpart in the
pro-sumer line.

A 5MP 6x zoom Canon P1 would be a killer-camera, and then the
positioning of the G3 would make perfect sense.

Let's hope!
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure that the Canon Pro90IS will be replaced by a 5Mp camera. It will have 10X zoom and the new DIGIC technology. It's just a matter time.

As I see it, the G-series was meant to be a "compact" camera with the possibility to use additional lenses (and flashes). Therefore it wouldn't be any sense to make it "bigger" with 6X+ Zoom. More tele will be an extra option for those users who wants it. But I agree, they could have upgraded the CCD to 5Mp. But then again, 1Mp more doesn't necessarily give better picture quality - but it will sure cost more.. The new DIGIC processor is indeed interesting, as well as improved AF accuracy. We should wait for the reviews!
 
Why does this conversations remind me so much of the Nikon Coolpix 990 vs. 995 debate about a year ago or so.

3x lens vs 4x lens
Small improvments
Worth the cost to upgrade, etc?

Sounds very familair. Now its Canon's turn.
Just my opinion.
Snapshot7 said:
I have to believed Canon is either very stupid or very smart with
the release of the G3.

The problem is I'm not sure which !!!!

I have to wonder exactly WHO this camera is targeted for?

Any "newbie" to digital MIGHT not get past the fact that it has 4mp
versus 5mp from almost every other manufactuer. They also might be
put off by the lower magnification. I can also see salespeople
favoring other cameras with more attractive features over the G3
when a customer asks for the "best" compact digital camera.

And there is a good chance the people who will do the research and
(hopefully) find that the G3 takes better pictures with it's 4mp
than the others with 5mp already own a digital camera; maybe even a
G2.

Will those people feel the G3 is worth the upgrade?

I can't believe Canon is this stupid.

They have to know that without a 5mp/5x zoom or better camera to
compete against the current top contenders they will lose market
share.

And NO...getting a DSLR like the D60 is not an option for many in
the market for several reasons so trying to force people to that
conclusion will hurt their sales.

Canon has been many things recently.... but THIS stupid?!?!?!

I have to believe that come November or Christmas time we will see
something to compete with the 717's, CP5700's, and D7Hi's.

For Canon to not do this would be bad business.
Click to expand...
--
Travis
 
PB said:
I'm thinking, if Nikon can dump a li-ion in the D-100 that has a
slight edge in capacity over our Canon BP-511s, why couldn't they
dump it on the CP5700?
Click to expand...
Size and intended use, PB. The 5700 is a hobbyist's camera, and the EN-EL1 is well matched to the needs of someone shooting 50 to 150 shots on a typical outing. Btw, I tried out a 5700, yesterday, and it's amazing how much Nikon crammed into 51 cubic inches. In fact, it felt almost too small to me, probably because I'm so accustomed to the bulky (but flexible) cp995.
 
My understanding was the Pro 90 was a money loser for Canon. If so why would they go down that path again? I also agree the G line is probably on it's way out. The S series will soon offer almost the same features at a lot less cost and the DSLR's will be coming down in cost.

I would expect that instead of spending R&D dollars on a "Pro 90" replacement they are spending money on a 4 to 5 megapixel entry level DSLR

The G series is in this never never land between the P&S and the DSLR and I think Canon doesn't see a lot of long range future in this.
Ladehaug said:
s©tt said:
I agree. The G3 is a refinement of the G2, but the fact that, among
other things, the zoom 'upgrade' is relatively limited, I wouldn't
be surprised if Canon was soon to announce a camera to fill in the
gap between G and D series... How about the P1? :-)

A week ago, someone said Canon would be releasing a 4MP S45 and a
5MP S50. If true, and the S50 is about to be announced, then it
seems very odd that there would be no 5MP counterpart in the
pro-sumer line.

A 5MP 6x zoom Canon P1 would be a killer-camera, and then the
positioning of the G3 would make perfect sense.

Let's hope!
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure that the Canon Pro90IS will be replaced by a 5Mp
camera. It will have 10X zoom and the new DIGIC technology. It's
just a matter time.

As I see it, the G-series was meant to be a "compact" camera with
the possibility to use additional lenses (and flashes). Therefore
it wouldn't be any sense to make it "bigger" with 6X+ Zoom. More
tele will be an extra option for those users who wants it. But I
agree, they could have upgraded the CCD to 5Mp. But then again, 1Mp
more doesn't necessarily give better picture quality - but it will
sure cost more.. The new DIGIC processor is indeed interesting, as
well as improved AF accuracy. We should wait for the reviews!
Click to expand...
--
Truman
 
Everyone's going 5mp now - even Casio and Toshiba Oly D50 is now out too.

The G3 will not last long...
Travis Feisthamel said:
3x lens vs 4x lens
Small improvments
Worth the cost to upgrade, etc?

Sounds very familair. Now its Canon's turn.
Just my opinion.
Snapshot7 said:
I have to believed Canon is either very stupid or very smart with
the release of the G3.

The problem is I'm not sure which !!!!

I have to wonder exactly WHO this camera is targeted for?

Any "newbie" to digital MIGHT not get past the fact that it has 4mp
versus 5mp from almost every other manufactuer. They also might be
put off by the lower magnification. I can also see salespeople
favoring other cameras with more attractive features over the G3
when a customer asks for the "best" compact digital camera.

And there is a good chance the people who will do the research and
(hopefully) find that the G3 takes better pictures with it's 4mp
than the others with 5mp already own a digital camera; maybe even a
G2.

Will those people feel the G3 is worth the upgrade?

I can't believe Canon is this stupid.

They have to know that without a 5mp/5x zoom or better camera to
compete against the current top contenders they will lose market
share.

And NO...getting a DSLR like the D60 is not an option for many in
the market for several reasons so trying to force people to that
conclusion will hurt their sales.

Canon has been many things recently.... but THIS stupid?!?!?!

I have to believe that come November or Christmas time we will see
something to compete with the 717's, CP5700's, and D7Hi's.

For Canon to not do this would be bad business.
Click to expand...
--
Travis
Click to expand...
 
Snapshot7 said:
I have to believed Canon is either very stupid or very smart with
the release of the G3.
Click to expand...
I disagree. The G1 and G2 have both been runaway sucess stories, highly regarded and arguably two of the best compact digicams ever made. The G3 will be no different and I think Canon will be able to sell everyone they make. Those who care know the difference between 4MP and 5MP really doesn't matter that much, it's what the camera does with the resolution it has. The Nikon D1's 2.7 MP will blow away most 4MP and 5MP compact P&S images. (See Moose Peterson's review and comments on the Nikon D1H vs. higher MP count D1X). Ninety-five percent of the time, a very fast, variable apreture, but constantly bright 4x zoom (like the G3's f/2.0 - f/3.0) lens is more useful to me than a slower 5x or higher zoom range lens.

G. Humphrey
 
"At 4 or 5 megs you don't have the resolution to even print an 8x10 at 300 dpi"

8x30 inches or cm?

i print 20x30 cm and it looks excellent eccept for the algoritm error which makes 30degrees lines looks wierd (which doesnt bother me)
Truman Prevatt said:
There are a lot of compormises in these "prosumer" cameras vs. a
DSLR and I would expect the price of the DSLR will be coming down
in the future and putting the squeeze on these prosumer from the
top while the low cost P&S cameras squeeze it from the bottom.

So like the Pro90, Canon may see these cameras becoming obsolete in
the future and working toward that end. I would expect that the G3
is designed to keep a foot hold in that market as they evolve to
the next generation of the digital technology.

Myself I have been very disappointed with this entire prosumer
line. I looked long and hard and ended up with a G2. There are just
too many compormises in these cameras. At 4 or 5 megs you don't
have the resolution to even print an 8x10 at 300 dpi. The manual
capabilities are a joke on all these cameras. I have found two uses
for these cameras. The first use I have found for it is to take
pictures of the grandkids, or just general "vacation" pictures. The
second use is to use it to preview shots I am going to take with my
4x5 film camera for correct exposure.

But as a kick butt camera, these prosumer cameras just don't cut it.
Snapshot7 said:
I have to believed Canon is either very stupid or very smart with
the release of the G3.

The problem is I'm not sure which !!!!
Click to expand...
Truman
Click to expand...
 
The QV5700 was only announced in Asia and Europe... It wasn't announced in the USA... Could this be linked to Canon's plans beyond G3 ? (Since they supply the lens maybe they could put restrictions on Casio?)....

Or have I been watching too much TV? :)
morris said:
Morris
Steven Smith said:
Steve.
Yang said:
Member said:
These are the models I came up with:
  • Minolta Dimage 7Hi & 7
  • Nikon 5000 & 5700
  • Olympus E-20
  • Sony DSC-F717
Did I miss anyone? :-)
Click to expand...
Olympus 5050
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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