Just say no to XD memory!!!

Qwerty13 · Sep 16, 2002

As new memory systems come out you might notice that they rarely get over the 128mb hurdle. Until recently CF and microdrives were the only ones above 128mb. Secure digital broke the 128 barrier but the price (even for a 128) is still high priced and for 256 or 512 it's way high priced.

So now, Olympus and Fuji can't seem to admit that they were wrong to use smart cards in the past (although they sort of did by adding CF to their higher end cameras), they invent a new, smaller, supposedly better memory system. Of course it will be released at 128mb as the maximum with promises of 256 and above really soon. Didn't we hear promises of 1gb on a Smart Card?

I don't think we need different memory. CF cards are small enough (in size). Secure digital and XD are small enough to lose inside the stitching of your camera cases. MY advice is to Boycott XD memory systems until they really release a 256 and larger cards AT OR NEAR CF CARD PRICES!!! The result will either be: they release newer memory systems at the higher capacities people want/need at affordable prices OR they will stick with a standard memory such as a CF card.

35mm film was around since the 30's or 40's (I'm not exactly sure but I have seen Kodak Retina 35mm cameras that were made for WWII use) and it has been the best selling size film ever since. 110, 126, Kodak Disc films have all but died. APS is probably not doing so hot either. Once you have a good standard you don't switch.

So let's just say NO to XD!!!

JT65019 · Sep 16, 2002

Zaphod said:
As new memory systems come out you might notice that they rarely
get over the 128mb hurdle. Until recently CF and microdrives were
the only ones above 128mb. Secure digital broke the 128 barrier but
the price (even for a 128) is still high priced and for 256 or 512
it's way high priced.

So now, Olympus and Fuji can't seem to admit that they were wrong
to use smart cards in the past (although they sort of did by adding
CF to their higher end cameras), they invent a new, smaller,
supposedly better memory system. Of course it will be released at
128mb as the maximum with promises of 256 and above really soon.
Didn't we hear promises of 1gb on a Smart Card?

I don't think we need different memory. CF cards are small enough
(in size). Secure digital and XD are small enough to lose inside
the stitching of your camera cases. MY advice is to Boycott XD
memory systems until they really release a 256 and larger cards AT
OR NEAR CF CARD PRICES!!! The result will either be: they release
newer memory systems at the higher capacities people want/need at
affordable prices OR they will stick with a standard memory such as
a CF card.

35mm film was around since the 30's or 40's (I'm not exactly sure
but I have seen Kodak Retina 35mm cameras that were made for WWII
use) and it has been the best selling size film ever since. 110,
126, Kodak Disc films have all but died. APS is probably not doing
so hot either. Once you have a good standard you don't switch.

So let's just say NO to XD!!!

I wouldn't touch the stuff myself. I have 2 128mb SM cards for my UZI & EZI but otherwise prefer compact flash. I'm using a 512mb card in my EZI. Once I make the move to DSLR in the near future (likely a Canon D60 or equivalent by the time I'm ready), I will be going to compact flash only. XD & Memory Stick just don't seem as flexible to me as CF.

--
JT

E-100RS, C-2100UZ, A200, A-28

misha · Sep 16, 2002

I agree that they did not launch these cards with the consumer convenience in mind. I have been using Olympus cameras for the last 3-4 years, so I own a few SM cards. I also have some CF cards and a Microdrive which I use in a pocket PC and thought I'd use in a new digital camera (the Olympus E-series uses CF too). But now they bring out that XD - so you can through away your old cards and have to get a new reader, etc. I really don't see why.

--
Misha

Corne26033 · Sep 16, 2002

Can't say I completely disagree with you, but, well, I think you're a troll.
Are you?

Morph · Sep 16, 2002

Corne said:
Can't say I completely disagree with you, but, well, I think you're
a troll.
Are you?

Why bash this poster? I see nothing here that would indicate a troll. His post is well put and it appears it was being tossed up for comments which is what this forum is all about. Agree or disagree but I see no reason to bash the poster after your one line response.

First line of the forums rules: Be civil - anyone being abusive, calling names or generally trying to stir up trouble will not be tolerated. If you think someone is wrong it may be because they are new, don't jump on them, think first. If you are repeatedly abusive you will be banned from these forums.

Corne26033 · Sep 16, 2002

Morph,

Can't I ask someone if he's a troll? I happened to see it's Zaphods first ever post to this forum, which made me wonder.

Regards

Phil Wheeler · Sep 16, 2002

Zaphod said:
I don't think we need different memory. CF cards are small enough
(in size). Secure digital and XD are small enough to lose inside
the stitching of your camera cases. MY advice is to Boycott XD
memory systems until they really release a 256 and larger cards AT
OR NEAR CF CARD PRICES!!! The result will either be: they release
newer memory systems at the higher capacities people want/need at
affordable prices OR they will stick with a standard memory such as
a CF card.

As an alternative to SM, XD may be a good thing. They claim they can get into the gigabyte range. With larger resolution (more megapixels) cameras on the horizon, I suspect the 128 M we have with smartmedia will be inadequate.

I do have a couple of CF cards; but I'm not super fond of that technology

I would NEVER choose a new camera based on its memory type, anyway -- even though I have lots of SM (which I can always use in my 100RS and 2100).

And so far as size is concerned, small is good!

Phil

misha · Sep 16, 2002

Phil Wheeler said:
As an alternative to SM, XD may be a good thing. They claim they
can get into the gigabyte range. With larger resolution (more
megapixels) cameras on the horizon, I suspect the 128 M we have
with smartmedia will be inadequate.

But where does one draw the line? Why can't they settle on one memory standard, or at least three - we already have CF, Microdrives, Smartmedia, SD/MMC, Memory sticks, PC cards - and now one more. Why not just adopt Secure Digital cards - they are as small as I'd want them to be for any practical purposes, already available at 512MB, and the prices are becoming reasonable (128MB for about $60).

--
Misha

------------- · Sep 16, 2002

Qwerty13 said:
Zaphod wrote:
As new memory systems come out you might notice that they rarely
get over the 128mb hurdle. Until recently CF and microdrives were
the only ones above 128mb. Secure digital broke the 128 barrier but
the price (even for a 128) is still high priced and for 256 or 512
it's way high priced.

So now, Olympus and Fuji can't seem to admit that they were wrong
to use smart cards in the past (although they sort of did by adding
CF to their higher end cameras), they invent a new, smaller,
supposedly better memory system. Of course it will be released at
128mb as the maximum with promises of 256 and above really soon.
Didn't we hear promises of 1gb on a Smart Card?

I don't think we need different memory. CF cards are small enough
(in size). Secure digital and XD are small enough to lose inside
the stitching of your camera cases. MY advice is to Boycott XD
memory systems until they really release a 256 and larger cards AT
OR NEAR CF CARD PRICES!!! The result will either be: they release
newer memory systems at the higher capacities people want/need at
affordable prices OR they will stick with a standard memory such as
a CF card.

35mm film was around since the 30's or 40's (I'm not exactly sure
but I have seen Kodak Retina 35mm cameras that were made for WWII
use) and it has been the best selling size film ever since. 110,
126, Kodak Disc films have all but died. APS is probably not doing
so hot either. Once you have a good standard you don't switch.

So let's just say NO to XD!!!

are you for real???!!! well, good luck on your international 'i shall ban new standards' campaign!

which is the smallest CF camera? i'd say it's probably the CANON ixus v2/v3. do you realize just how much of the total volume of that particular camera that is allocated to just spacing the CF card?!

today's and indeed future use of digital imaging involves lots more than just cameras. mobile phone integration for instance - you won't find phones using obsolete CF cards, but SD, small MS and probably soon XD cards. thinking ahead is never wrong!

in terms of speed, the standard CF card is no achiever - averaging a mere 0.6 - 0.7 mb per second. compare w MS at 2.5 mb per sec, SM at 3 mb per sec and the new XD at 3 - 5 mb per second.

just some thoughts - but good luck on your campaign.

rgds,

Nik

http://www.pbase.com/nik

misha · Sep 16, 2002

Nik said:
in terms of speed, the standard CF card is no achiever - averaging
a mere 0.6 - 0.7 mb per second. compare w MS at 2.5 mb per sec, SM
at 3 mb per sec and the new XD at 3 - 5 mb per second.

Nik, where did you get these figures? Data from Phil's review of CF cards shows rather different performance numbers. And I haven't seen evidence of cameras that use SM or memory stick performing faster than CF counterparts. Actually, Sony's MS line generally lacks the fast burst speed of either SM or CF cameras.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/mediacompare/
--
Misha

------------- · Sep 16, 2002

Member said:
misha wrote:
Nik, where did you get these figures? Data from Phil's review of CF
cards shows rather different performance numbers. And I haven't
seen evidence of cameras that use SM or memory stick performing
faster than CF counterparts. Actually, Sony's MS line generally
lacks the fast burst speed of either SM or CF cameras.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/mediacompare/

hi Misha,

the STANDARD CF card is 4x, hence a write speed of 4 x 150 kb = aprx 0.6 mb per sec. other - read newer - type medias - such as XD - is capable of much higher transfer speeds - up to 5 mb per sec.

BUT no system is better than the weakest link - in this case, the processor of the camera. for instance, a MEM STICK might be able to read data at 2.5 mb per sec, but i doubt any SONY camera is able to supply data that fast.

rgds,

Nik

http://www.pbase.com/nik

Brian · Sep 16, 2002

And we should have stayed with EDO memory for computers.

CF is more expensive than SM. I would suspect that it'll be more expensive than Xd, too.

Also, as pointed out. XD will have a large speed advantage and be more compact to boot.

But neither are as fast as a good HD.

Zaphod said:
As new memory systems come out you might notice that they rarely
get over the 128mb hurdle. Until recently CF and microdrives were
the only ones above 128mb. Secure digital broke the 128 barrier but
the price (even for a 128) is still high priced and for 256 or 512
it's way high priced.

So now, Olympus and Fuji can't seem to admit that they were wrong
to use smart cards in the past (although they sort of did by adding
CF to their higher end cameras), they invent a new, smaller,
supposedly better memory system. Of course it will be released at
128mb as the maximum with promises of 256 and above really soon.
Didn't we hear promises of 1gb on a Smart Card?

I don't think we need different memory. CF cards are small enough
(in size). Secure digital and XD are small enough to lose inside
the stitching of your camera cases. MY advice is to Boycott XD
memory systems until they really release a 256 and larger cards AT
OR NEAR CF CARD PRICES!!! The result will either be: they release
newer memory systems at the higher capacities people want/need at
affordable prices OR they will stick with a standard memory such as
a CF card.

35mm film was around since the 30's or 40's (I'm not exactly sure
but I have seen Kodak Retina 35mm cameras that were made for WWII
use) and it has been the best selling size film ever since. 110,
126, Kodak Disc films have all but died. APS is probably not doing
so hot either. Once you have a good standard you don't switch.

So let's just say NO to XD!!!

misha · Sep 16, 2002

Nik said:
the STANDARD CF card is 4x, hence a write speed of 4 x 150 kb =
aprx 0.6 mb per sec. other - read newer - type medias - such as XD

is capable of much higher transfer speeds - up to 5 mb per sec.

the x4, x12, etc rating based on 150kb/sec is a marketing gimmick launched by Lexar - Phil remarks on that in his comments to the test. You'll note that most cards in his test are not marked as x-anything, but they deliver about 2 Mb write and 4 Mb read speeds (and Ultra cards by Sandisk that are supposed to be high-speed actually aren't). CF cards are used in professional DSLRs - where it would make sense to use the fastest cards, given the huge file sizes, so claims of superior SM and XD speeds have not produced any practical benefit so far.

--
Misha

Eric Carlson · Sep 16, 2002

While I agree with you somewhat, that it would be great if everyone standardized on CF, there is one problem with CF: It is a relative large form-factor, especially when compared to the size of PDA's, cell phones, tiny cameras, and tiny audio players.

CF is great for mid to large sized cameras, but doesn't translate well to really small devices.
--

Eric, http://www.InvisibleRobot.com/

TonyChang · Sep 16, 2002

Eric Carlson said:
While I agree with you somewhat, that it would be great if everyone
standardized on CF, there is one problem with CF: It is a relative
large form-factor, especially when compared to the size of PDA's,
cell phones, tiny cameras, and tiny audio players.

CF is great for mid to large sized cameras, but doesn't translate
well to really small devices.

And to expand on that train of thought, CF draws more power and isn't as fast as the newer formats.

256MB xD is supposed to be out in December with 512MB and 1GB-8GB in 2003, so the original rant is more than a bit diminished.

http://www.olympusamerica.com/oai_pressDetails.asp?pressNo=192

--
Tony
c2100, c3040, a200, b300, pt010
http://www.pbase.com/indigo68

Jim Modesto112068 · Sep 16, 2002

TonyChang said:
Eric Carlson said:

While I agree with you somewhat, that it would be great if everyone
standardized on CF, there is one problem with CF: It is a relative
large form-factor, especially when compared to the size of PDA's,
cell phones, tiny cameras, and tiny audio players.

CF is great for mid to large sized cameras, but doesn't translate
well to really small devices.

Click to expand...

And to expand on that train of thought, CF draws more power and
isn't as fast as the newer formats.

256MB xD is supposed to be out in December with 512MB and 1GB-8GB
in 2003, so the original rant is more than a bit diminished.

http://www.olympusamerica.com/oai_pressDetails.asp?pressNo=192

--
Tony
c2100, c3040, a200, b300, pt010
http://www.pbase.com/indigo68

--Please !!! the more inventions the better , the cream always rises to the top, Remeber Bill Gates said not long ago "Who would ever need more than 64K of memory" xD is the smallest yet , can you imagine 1 gig of memory even smaller than the xD card , how about those earpiece headphones that you wouldnt even have to plug into anything and have 100"s of Mp3's just in your ear. Now that would be cool. I know it is frustrating and expensive to change all the time but if your into electronics you should be used to that, By the time you get it it's obsolete. If you dont like it grab your candle and abucus and figure out much money you can hide in your cave.
Jimmy M
Toronto Canada
2100 uzi

Qwerty13 · Sep 16, 2002

Corne said:
Can't say I completely disagree with you, but, well, I think you're
a troll.
Are you?

Dear Corne,

Just because I live under a bridge and collect money from people who want to cross it doesn't mean I'm a troll.

Maybe you think I'm a troll because I sound anti progress. I'm not anit progress I'm just anti STEWPID progress. Think about it; the only benefit the XD memory really offers is a lower power drain. So here's an idea: Put the XD memory card (which is small) inside the CF case. Thus you end up with a card that has the small power drain of XD yet it's compatable with the CF cameras. Plus if you need more than 128 (and you will with the 5050) you could still use CF.

I may be a troll but at least I spend less money on my memory and get more pictures. (I also shoot with Fuji grey market film for the same reasons, more photo's less money).

Qwerty13 · Sep 16, 2002

Brian,

What do you mean CF is more expensive? SM card are usually the same or higher. The stick and SD cards are definately more $$$. XD is comming out higher, when will it drop? We have CF above 128. That is my point. We don't have anything else excpet for SD which was very recent to break the 128 barrier and it cost way way way more than CF.

As far as EDO memory for computers, not my area of expertise. BUT let me guess. When the invented DDR ram or SDDR, DIMMS, SIMMS etc, I bet the first thing they had was greater capacity than what they were replacing. If not greater, it was at least the same.

Brian said:
CF is more expensive than SM. I would suspect that it'll be more
expensive than Xd, too.

Also, as pointed out. XD will have a large speed advantage and be
more compact to boot.

But neither are as fast as a good HD.

Zaphod said:

As new memory systems come out you might notice that they rarely
get over the 128mb hurdle. Until recently CF and microdrives were
the only ones above 128mb. Secure digital broke the 128 barrier but
the price (even for a 128) is still high priced and for 256 or 512
it's way high priced.

So now, Olympus and Fuji can't seem to admit that they were wrong
to use smart cards in the past (although they sort of did by adding
CF to their higher end cameras), they invent a new, smaller,
supposedly better memory system. Of course it will be released at
128mb as the maximum with promises of 256 and above really soon.
Didn't we hear promises of 1gb on a Smart Card?

I don't think we need different memory. CF cards are small enough
(in size). Secure digital and XD are small enough to lose inside
the stitching of your camera cases. MY advice is to Boycott XD
memory systems until they really release a 256 and larger cards AT
OR NEAR CF CARD PRICES!!! The result will either be: they release
newer memory systems at the higher capacities people want/need at
affordable prices OR they will stick with a standard memory such as
a CF card.

35mm film was around since the 30's or 40's (I'm not exactly sure
but I have seen Kodak Retina 35mm cameras that were made for WWII
use) and it has been the best selling size film ever since. 110,
126, Kodak Disc films have all but died. APS is probably not doing
so hot either. Once you have a good standard you don't switch.

So let's just say NO to XD!!!

Click to expand...

Qwerty13 · Sep 16, 2002

This reply is for both Tony and Eric,

Dear Eric,

My gosh darn camera is so big, that 35mm film keeps gettin in the way. Thank god for APS film. While the neg is so small it looks horrible but it fits in my pocket better.

Also, this forum is Digital PHOTO review, not PDA, Ipod, cell phone review.

Dear Tony,

Look up some old press releases on SM cards. I'm pretty sure we were promissed 1gb.

TonyChang said:
Eric Carlson said:

While I agree with you somewhat, that it would be great if everyone
standardized on CF, there is one problem with CF: It is a relative
large form-factor, especially when compared to the size of PDA's,
cell phones, tiny cameras, and tiny audio players.

CF is great for mid to large sized cameras, but doesn't translate
well to really small devices.

Click to expand...

And to expand on that train of thought, CF draws more power and
isn't as fast as the newer formats.

256MB xD is supposed to be out in December with 512MB and 1GB-8GB
in 2003, so the original rant is more than a bit diminished.

http://www.olympusamerica.com/oai_pressDetails.asp?pressNo=192

--
Tony
c2100, c3040, a200, b300, pt010
http://www.pbase.com/indigo68

TZZDC26562 · Sep 16, 2002

I agree this BS with the XD cards is just pointless and will die like SM cards did. CF cards are PLENTY small and plenty fast and with pentiful capacities. SD cards I dont mind but they need to come down in price abit.

Just say no to XD memory!!!

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