1DS will hurt 1D sales

Why can't the manufacturers just include 512k or 1GB of battery backed RAM for primary storage with compact flash as a backup.

This would provide:

1. Significantly higher throughput for buffer flush and camera -> computer file downloads.
2. HUGE shot buffer.

It seems too obvious. There must be some limitation (heat, power consumption?) which prevents it. I would pay an extra $500-$1000 for onboard RAM.

EG

John Mason said:

I actually posted the raid idea here ages ago.

However, my little post of specs of a hypothetical camera is
supposedly an actually camera going to be introduced at Photokina.

My source is one of the main salespeople at a camera store.

Well know in 2 weeks!

Click to expand...

--
EG

1. I think Canon may have recouped enough from the current 1D sales already(why else would they offer the 1Ds if they know it would cut into 1D sales?)

2. The 1D was meant primarily for the Sports photogs(why else the 8fps like we need it for landscape pics?) The newspapers/pro sport photogs will continue to support it as newsprint and magazine work needs speed rather than amazing resolution...its fine there. 3fps don't cut it in sports photography...not to the newspaper types

Greg M said:

That would be a mistake. It makes more sense to try and slam the
door on the compitition and that price would leave the door wide
open. Canon didn't get to where they are by being short sighted.

Click to expand...

3.The Japanese business model is not like what you find in the US. They are not keen to put their (Japanese) competitors out of business. They grow the country as a whole. If you examine the shareholders list, it is very often you will find many companies holding their competitor's shares.

4. I believe there is some unwritten rule in Japanese big business that MITI their industry ministry, negiotiates some technology sharing/licencing among the big manufacturers. This ensures the Japanse industry keeps on going as a whole, it is employment of all its citizens thats important not monopoly or sheer profits. If they can keep their giant manufacturing industry going to employ all their 200million citizens, the government will ensure this....

So expect Nikon to respond soon.

If you haven't realized, its not the Japanese competition they are trying to snuff out....

Andre Lam

Andre Lam said:

1. I think Canon may have recouped enough from the current 1D sales
already(why else would they offer the 1Ds if they know it would cut
into 1D sales?)

Click to expand...

Also, technology marches on.

Andre Lam said:

2. The 1D was meant primarily for the Sports photogs(why else the
8fps like we need it for landscape pics?) The newspapers/pro sport
photogs will continue to support it as newsprint and magazine work
needs speed rather than amazing resolution...its fine there. 3fps
don't cut it in sports photography...not to the newspaper types

Click to expand...

The 1Ds will open up a whole new market that have resisted going digital so far because of resolution requirements and lack of full frame sensor. Many pros need this. And many amateurs who have the luxury of waiting have been waiting for a body that will serve for a number of years, and the 1Ds specs high enough that it can be considered a long term investment.

Andre Lam said:

3.The Japanese business model is not like what you find in the US.
They are not keen to put their (Japanese) competitors out of
business. They grow the country as a whole. If you examine the
shareholders list, it is very often you will find many companies
holding their competitor's shares.

Click to expand...

Interesting observation. Quite a contrast to the US's "take no prisoners" attitudes epitomized by Bill Gates. Canon actually believes in winning by creating a superior product (playing fairly).

Andre Lam said:

If you haven't realized, its not the Japanese competition they are
trying to snuff out....

Click to expand...

Doesn't Canon already "own" the SLR market? Even among pros?

• DL

Don Lashier said:

Doesn't Canon already "own" the SLR market? Even among pros?

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Perhaps it was more like our choice than their "plan"?

AL

Andre Lam said:

1. I think Canon may have recouped enough from the current 1D sales
already(why else would they offer the 1Ds if they know it would cut
into 1D sales?)

2. The 1D was meant primarily for the Sports photogs(why else the
8fps like we need it for landscape pics?) The newspapers/pro sport

Click to expand...

Yes but it was the only option that had a good AF and AWB. The 1D is much more then 8fps but that's what most people focus on. "I don't need 8fps" is what I hear but if you look at the rest of the camera it is far superior to anything else.

Andre Lam said:

photogs will continue to support it as newsprint and magazine work
needs speed rather than amazing resolution...its fine there. 3fps
don't cut it in sports photography...not to the newspaper types

Andre Lam said:

That would be a mistake. It makes more sense to try and slam the
door on the compitition and that price would leave the door wide
open. Canon didn't get to where they are by being short sighted.

Click to expand...

3.The Japanese business model is not like what you find in the US.
They are not keen to put their (Japanese) competitors out of
business. They grow the country as a whole. If you examine the
shareholders list, it is very often you will find many companies
holding their competitor's shares.

Click to expand...

Now if this is true then it would throw my suggestions right out the window. It does sound Japanese to me, at least from the impressions I have received.

Andre Lam said:

4. I believe there is some unwritten rule in Japanese big business
that MITI their industry ministry, negiotiates some technology
sharing/licencing among the big manufacturers. This ensures the
Japanse industry keeps on going as a whole, it is employment of all
its citizens thats important not monopoly or sheer profits. If they
can keep their giant manufacturing industry going to employ all
their 200million citizens, the government will ensure this....

So expect Nikon to respond soon.

If you haven't realized, its not the Japanese competition they are
trying to snuff out....

Andre Lam

Click to expand...

Canon might use aggressive pricing on the 1Ds and the 1D to lure people into their full system. They want people to buy not only Canon cameras, but alsow a bunch of their lenses. And they want them to stick with Canon for a long time. That might have been the reason the D60 came in low, even though neither the D100 or the S2 were on the market yet.

We'll see.

Horst Kretzschmar said:

Horst Kretzschmar said:

Canon has a chance here, with the superior 1D and 1DS, to really
slam the competition if they price these bodies aggressively.

Click to expand...

I totally agree, and I hope Canon will do such an aggressiv
pricing. It may depend of their resources to be able to deliver
enough cameras.
--
H. Kretzschmar, Germany

Click to expand...

Horst Kretzschmar said:

1D has been designed for fast press work with high picture
frequencies. 1DS delivers very high resloution at rather slow speed
depending on the hugh files. 1DS is not designed for press work.

Click to expand...

I don´t know, nobody has the exact specifications yet, but it seems to me that 3-4 frames per second should be enough to shoot for press, I don´t know how long it will take to write the first lets say 7 or 8 shots from the buffer onto the card/ MDrive, but normally you will be able to shoot dozens of shots in 10 - 15 minutes.

I am not a journalist, but one should not confound photo shooting with firing off a machine gun And if its about speed, a fast working photojournalist will then have to select the best shots afterwards to send them to the magazine/ newspaper. IF he has done 750 shots on a 30min event he will take a bit too long for that...

just my 2cents

Thanks Andre,

I particularly note your cryptic last-sentence ;-)

Larry

Andre Lam said:

2. The 1D was meant primarily for the Sports photogs(why else the
8fps like we need it for landscape pics?) The newspapers/pro sport
photogs will continue to support it as newsprint and magazine work
needs speed rather than amazing resolution...its fine there. 3fps
don't cut it in sports photography...not to the newspaper types

Andre Lam said:

That would be a mistake. It makes more sense to try and slam the
door on the compitition and that price would leave the door wide
open. Canon didn't get to where they are by being short sighted.

Click to expand...

3.The Japanese business model is not like what you find in the US.
They are not keen to put their (Japanese) competitors out of
business. They grow the country as a whole. If you examine the
shareholders list, it is very often you will find many companies
holding their competitor's shares.

4. I believe there is some unwritten rule in Japanese big business
that MITI their industry ministry, negiotiates some technology
sharing/licencing among the big manufacturers. This ensures the
Japanse industry keeps on going as a whole, it is employment of all
its citizens thats important not monopoly or sheer profits. If they
can keep their giant manufacturing industry going to employ all
their 200million citizens, the government will ensure this....

So expect Nikon to respond soon.

If you haven't realized, its not the Japanese competition they are
trying to snuff out....

Andre Lam

Click to expand...

About 2 1/5 weeks ago I rea here on DPreview that wouldn't it be nice
to have a camera that:

had mirrored CF cards
Kodak 14 MPixel sensor

Now it is a real product

Might be. We will know in a couple of weeks. I am not
betting on this one.

---
My really bad summer pictures:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/summer_travels

Ben,

Your assumption would be more valid IF the only thing at stake were DSLR sales. But the fact is that with every body sold, there are potentially more $$ sales in lenses, flashes, and accessories. It makes a whole lot of sense to continuosly drop the price of bodies even without apparent competition to get at those accessory sales.

For instance, let's say nothing to compete with the 1Ds if on anybody's radar screen for at least 18 months. Does it make more sense for Canon to keep the 1Ds price high and limit its availability to a few, or to sell it for as little as they can (still with a decent profit margin) to get as people users as they can that now will buy the other stuff as well?

Ben Horne said:

Only after some competition arrives could canon bring the price
down to the 1D range. Canon is here to make money, not to cater to
our every needs.

I don't think digital bodies will go much lower than twice the
price of the film counterpart. For example, the 1V + PB-E2 costs
close to 2,000. Therefore, I don't think we'll see any new 1D
series cameras under the 4k level any time soon. IF they did drop
below that range, it will force canon to drop the price of the
1V.... then the 3..... then the elan series, and drop the price
all the way down to the cheap-o rebel series. It just doesn't make
sense to have a digital body cost nearly the same to the film body
counterpart.

Also, I think we'lll keep seeing the prosumer digicams at about the
price of the top canon film bodies. Ie.... D60 costs about the
same as a 1V + PB-E2. Those could drop a bit more (maybe the price
of a 1V alone in a couple years) but I don't see the next
generation of the D60 having a significant price change ---
they'll have to re-work the camera design and features to warrant
the upgrade for nearly the same amount of money.

Take Care,
Ben Horne

http://www.benhorne.com

Greg M said:

Before you flame consider this, until the 1DS there has been no
Canon DSLR for you to get (if you need better performance than the
D30/60) then the 1D. Therefore anyone that needed a better camera
had to buy the 1D. Now that there is a choice the sales will be
somewhat split between the two choices. I'm not saying that 1D
sales will be cut in half but I am saying that 1D sales will be
affected.

What will Canon do?

I believe, based on the past, that the 1DS will come out at a lower
list price then the current 1D list price. The 1D will also drop
in price. Canon knows that there are a lot of 1D sales that are
just waiting for the price to drop below $4000. With an expected
drop off in 1D sales I'm sure that they will want to cash in on
those that will buy at less then $4000 before they replace the 1D.

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