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Focus Test - , Canon 10D vs. 7D- Thoughts?

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Do two tests:

1) liveview, timer, manual AF on 10x zoom

2) mirror lockup, timer, regular AF, AF adjusted

If the two differs then you know something could be wrong. If not then everyone who said camera shake is most likely right.

That's what I did to figure out it was my lens that was soft rather than the AF being screwed up.
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I agree with those who feel the 7d shot suffers from motion blur (caused by mirror slap) You will see this much more easily on your 7d than the 10d due to pixel density. You will need a really good tripod to reduce it and of course use MLU. (there is a reason many photographers spend more on a tripod and head than on a camera body!) As I understand it your shutter speed was around 1/50 where mirror slap makes itself most obvious.
 
If all else fails and you have a flash you could use that off camera with the 7D to get your shutter speed well up. Probably not much use in comparing with the 10D at that FL unless you also have a speedlight transmitter but I expect with a much higher shutter speed and low ISO you should at least be able to see if the 7D is capable of proper focus. Incidentally I too think the image clearly shows motion blur and shutter speed is too low even for tripod shooting unless your technique/support are excellent.
 
I concur with the others, looks like motion blur to me. Perhaps vertical. 1/60th is way too long for testing at that FL, in my opinion. Bump the ISO up and get way more light on target. Put whatever lamps you got on it. I'd also start testing with one of your shorter lenses first. I also did 7D focus testing with my 100-400 at 400 and it was tricky to get an isolated AF test scenario.
 
Cabana Boy said:
I've done several of these tests, using the timer, so there should be little or no shake - right? And besides, this is as a controlled test as I can think of when compared with trying to shoot something in the real world.
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did you use mirror lock or liveview?

use a long enough timer to let the tripod settle (a 400mm can make tripods go bouncy and believe me yoy get blur if you don't let them settle well first)
 
point is really, he shouldn't HAVE to lock up the mirror, or use a flash, or put it on a tripod, or do countless MA. I hope this camera doesn't turn in to the Land Rover of SLR's. You know, have you have to have TWO of them since ONE is always in the shop.
 
I agree it would be nice to not have to solidly and steadily support an effective 600+mm lens at slow shutter speeds and get a pin sharp image on a very dense sensor but in reality MLU is likely to be essential however good the AF without IS. No deficiency on the part of the 7D just physics.
 
??? Yeah he only needed higher shutter speed which is why he could use a flash. But that's not the FUD you are trying to spread is it? Motion blur exists for all cameras. And all those things you mention are part and parcel of photography to combat motion blur. So much so the lack of a mirror lock up button is one of the issues reviewers had with the 7d design, while the stability of a tripod is so important people would spend the cost of a body to get a stable tripod.

The point really is you don't seem to understand how those aids are used to take better photos.
tivoboy said:
point is really, he shouldn't HAVE to lock up the mirror, or use a flash, or put it on a tripod, or do countless MA. I hope this camera doesn't turn in to the Land Rover of SLR's. You know, have you have to have TWO of them since ONE is always in the shop.
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WTF ....where do you get lording over ..or pedestal.

your personal dislike of me is showing. and your comment to the OP sounds a lot like mine . other then if I was testing AF I would not be spending a lot of time doing manual focus.

( relax gotak as I will not be reading or responding to any post you make in the future.)

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gotak said:
It's a simple matter to figure out if there is really a problem with AF or a problem with the setup for the test. And no it's not someone on an internet pedestal lording their opinion on us all.

To the OP setup the test again using the same settings. This time use manual focus in liveview 10x zoomed and 10 second timer. Compare that with regular AF but with mirror lock up and 10sec timer. If you can get a clean picture with the manual focus but not AF then you likely have an AF problem. I say likely rather than for sure because there could still be variations like a truck passing by your place etc that can cause camera shake.

Do that test and get back to us. :)
Luke Kukovica said:
it looks out of focus but that is how some of these problems manifest themselves.

there are some here that will never be convinced it is anything but user error ... until they get a lemon.

If I got constantly lousy shots with the 7D and decent ones with the 10D I would just return the 7D.

good luck

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Cabana Boy said:
I've done several of these tests, using the timer, so there should be little or no shake - right? And besides, this is as a controlled test as I can think of when compared with trying to shoot something in the real world.
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Click to expand...
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/sebastianip/
Click to expand...
 
gotak said:
So much so the lack of a mirror lock up button is one of the issues reviewers had with the 7d design,
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Which is a moot point as live view in the way it is implemented by Canon is functional superior (MLU + first shutter curtain replaced by electronic shutter) to MLU and has it's own dedicated button.
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regards
Karl Günter Wünsch
 
And the shutter is much quieter because the mirror box is larger. I recently used my 10D, having not touched it in a year or so, and had to check to make sure it wasn't broken. It was that quiet!
Pierre Ber said:
On last note, the build quality of 10D is better then all my cameras listed above (except the 1ds).
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Cabana Boy said:
Okay then. First for the record, the tripod was on a firm, tile floor.
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Were you or someone else walking around? A truck happen to rumble by? Even "firm, tile floor" will flex if it's not on a concrete slab, and even then can be caused to vibrate. ;)
 
so the rulers should have a few lines in focus, and the other lines not in focus.

on the 7D shot you show, NONE of the lines are in focus, while on the 10D shot you show, ALL of the are in focus.

This just doesn't make sense.

The angle between the camera's aim, and the ruler, should shallow enough so you could check for any front or back-focusing.

I'd say your 7D shot either did not have single point (although I know, you say that you used single point), or the single point was not on the target but elsewhere on the phot (I know you say you did aim it at the target), or you have vibration or similar phenomenon (I know you say you used tripod and remote).

All in all it just doesn't make sense - at worst the camera could be front, or back, focusing, but the way you've set up your rulers, i.e. improperly, doesn't tell us anything.
 
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