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Ulysses
Guest
You just crossed a line, Walter.
Roger gave a perfectly valid illustration, whether or not we agree with it.
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Ulysses
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What will Sony announce at PhotoKina?
- Thread starter digicammania
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Roger gave a perfectly valid illustration, whether or not we agree with it.
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Ulysses
Yes, and a lot of folks also wanted a completely redesigned Canon G2, but the G3 looks like it's going to be a huge disappointment.
It IS tiny, but it is so well designed that it is extremely comfortable to hold and operate. Have you checked one out in person? Try holding it in one hand and compare with others.
Of course it's subjective. But I think that a majority of people would agree that the Coolpix's design is more comfortable and versatile. The F-series have a unique and interesting design that I'm sure is useful for many types of photography. But don't you think it is rather limiting and uncomfortable for certain circumstances, such as when you want to frame a shot holding the camera over your head, framing shots sideways or around a corner, or under any cis=rcumstances when you might want to hold and operate the camera with only one hand? And you have to admit that the F-series cameras aren't exactly compact, which is an issue whenever storage and transport are considered.
Phil said it was comfortable. Personally, I didn't care for the
feel of it. I guess it's subjective. Lots of F-series users don't
care for the square camera form factor. But then S-series users
find the F-series too akward and bulky, like yourself.
Actually, what I want is either a Canon G2 OR a Sony S85, but with a Nikon Coolpix 5000 body.
Improved autofocus is also extremely important to me, and I'll happily sacrifice a long zoom lens to obtain it, but not other features.Regarding the Nikon, it's so sad that such a perfectly designed body can contain such flawed optics and camera interface design. Slow lens. Poor low-light autofocus performance. Slow autofocus performance even in bright conditions. No AF assist light. Poor wide angle zoom range. Horrible battery life. Horrendous control and menu interface design. What a shame.
Jimmy Chen
Veteran Member
Flash memory, which is no different then a CF ... Heck, any media that I know can go thru a full wash/dry cycle sounds like excellent technology to me.
Ruthless and insensitive business pratices? Disreguard for customer concerns and needs? What do you think the F717 was all about? LOL, care to list some examples? I dont recall ever reading any Anti-trust suits against Sony like the BS that MS has been doing ...
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jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery
Sony had better stick a higher quality lens in front of that CCS, then, because even at 4mp the lens gives out. You can tell because the "Fine" version of an image does not look any better than the "Standard" image.
The F-series have a unique and interesting design that
You wrap the strap around the hand, strategically, and then hold the camera with that hand. In a sense the strap acts as a second hand.
You can operate the DSC-P9 with one hand relatively easily.
You wrap the strap around the hand, strategically, and then hold the camera with that hand. In a sense the strap acts as a second hand.
Really? I call it an overpriced memory card format with caacity that trails at least two years behind its cmopetition, all wrapped up in a proprietary format that is not usable on any non-Sony products.Great technology, with a market lead that is likely to grow, as
will it's capacity.
I also call it a greedy and arrogant attempt to leverage the popularity of their consumer electronics products in order to prevent their customers from using superior and mor cost effective formats that have been around far longer.
Jimmy Chen
Veteran Member
Hmm, 128MB MS cost $60, 128MB CF I costs $50 ... I really cannot see where the over price is coming from. As for technology, they both uses the same flash memory. As for format, lets see ... A single MS reader can read std, duo, and MG (unprotected), whereas one needs to have a CF I and II reader in order to be able to use both.
So I really dont see all of the benefits you are seeing ...
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jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
huh??? dont think youve done enough research.
Memory Stick supporting devices
Digital cameras
Cell phones
PDA's
Desktop computers
Notebook computers
Answering machines
Home phones
personal recorders
etc etc etc...
Manufacturers that support Memory Stick
Fujitsu
Casio
Sharp
Clarion
Audi
Palm
Olympus
Pioneer
Apacer
Alpine
NEC
Motorola
Matsushita
Ricoh
SAMSUNG
FUJI
Texas Instruments
HONDA
I-O DATA
Volkswagen
Konica
Kyocera
Yamaha
Toyota
Lexar
LOGITEC
IBM Corporation
Hewlett-Packard
General Motors Corporation
Sun Corporation
Realtek
Acer
AIWA
Adobe Systems
...and more
the rest can be seen here
http://www.memorystick.org/msinfo/eng/memberlist/index.html
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0002/00022403sonylic.asp
Memory stick is the largest supported media right now hands down.
Show me a list greater than this for Compact Flash or Smart media????
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cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
Rodger Carter
Leading Member
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So what you are saying is that if one company comes out with a particualr type of product, no other company should come out with a competing product, even if far superior, because that would mean they are greedy and arrogant? I don't think the Harvard School of Business is familiar with that paradigm, maybe you lhould clue them in. I'm sure they'll give it the consideration that it's due.
As to the superior formats, Imaging Resource had this to say when the MemorySticks first came out: “Of all the memory formats we've played with to date we actually found ourselves liking the Memory Stick the most.” Imaging Resource, December, 1999
Since that time MemorySticks have surpassed SmartMedia in sales are well on their way to overtaking CF - or is that what's really got you upset?
Rodger
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Donald Cooper
Guest
I understand I may be touching a nerve here, but realistically CF seems to enjoy considerably more actual support. When a 3rd party supports MS, it's usually in combination with CF (Epson printers) or it's as additional support via an ad-on to a device which offers native CF support (Delkin, Nexvue, Image Tank).
While it's true that MS is doing better on this front since Sony drastically cut the royalty rates (close to zero?), objectively MS is swimming against a strong open format tide, and it's hard to imagine this proprietary format (or any other) becoming a standard, especially with so many open format competitors -- CF, SD, Multimedia, etc. Seems like everyone is determined to make sure they only use open standard formats (JPEG 2000, etc).
While it's true that MS is doing better on this front since Sony drastically cut the royalty rates (close to zero?), objectively MS is swimming against a strong open format tide, and it's hard to imagine this proprietary format (or any other) becoming a standard, especially with so many open format competitors -- CF, SD, Multimedia, etc. Seems like everyone is determined to make sure they only use open standard formats (JPEG 2000, etc).
U
Ulysses
Guest
And this was said back when MS could truly be considered "proprietary" as they had not really diversified in either device usage or in opening up the stick to other manufacturers to license.
Things have improved by far in the past couple of years since that was written.
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Ulysses
U
Ulysses
Guest
Mmm... I don't know that I'd go that far. The G3 is on its way as a valid contender for "Best Digicam" in this segment. We'll have to watch for this one.
Yeah, I've held one. Even went and shot with one for a bit. It's nice.
But as to its form factor, I'm not particularly comfortable with it. It may be that it's too small for my personal comfort. Ergonomics are such a subjective thing, though. I can see how some would like it, where others would not, as you mentioned later in your post.
Nope. The only situation that you mention here that I'd have difficulty would be the shooting around a corner.
But since I'm not playing 'cops and robbers' with any of my friends and therefore don't need to be hiding around these corners... well, you can see how I don't really have need for that function/feature just yet.
But that's just it. I like the heft of the camera. No one was happier than I was to see that it was subtantially a larger camera than the F505V series. The weight helps you to keep it steady, at least for myself. I take it everywhere, so transport isn't a problem.
It sounds like what you're describing is more like the G3. What about that camera has failed your expectations. The list of changes and/or improvements is rather long.Actually, what I want is either a Canon G2 OR a Sony S85, but with
a Nikon Coolpix 5000 body.
extremely important to me, and I'll happily sacrifice a long zoom
lens to obtain it, but not other features.
Yeah, well... just goes to show that nobody does it completely right. Sometimes I think we'll keep waiting for the No Compromise camera until we turn blue in the face.
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Ulysses
Rodger Carter
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Which is the real reason that so many Sony-bashers are so burned up. When the MS was first announced, they predicted that it would be an overnight flop - Betamax usually appeared in every other sentence (according to Sony-bashers, that's the only product Sony has ever produced). Nothing upsets people so much as to be publicly proven wrong - again, and again, and again, and again ad naseum.
Basically, a buch of soreheads who made a bad product choice and are PO'ed at Sony rather than who they should be PO'ed at - the person they see in the mirror every morning.
Rodger
Basically, a buch of soreheads who made a bad product choice and are PO'ed at Sony rather than who they should be PO'ed at - the person they see in the mirror every morning.
Rodger
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
Hey Donald,
No nerves out of place here. When i said MemStick was supported by more devices i didnt just make it up. My cousin at Sony has also told me that Sony has issued more licenses to various products than CF. No doubt about it that CF is the reigning king when it comes to digi cameras and printers but as a whole MemStick is ahead.
http://www.computercraft.com.au/compact_flash-frame.html
This list here will show 220 devices that use CF. Click on "Compatibility List" You'll see 110 cameras alone use CF. Thats huge. This is last years list so the total is a little higher now.
Now look at Sonys list. Thats 335 supporting companies. Thats companies not a list of devices.
http://www.memorystick.org/msinfo/eng/memberlist/index.html
Now, im not contesting your knowledge and this is nickle and diming but i just want Walter to know that he's got a good thing with his Sony digi and their not as big bad sheeps as he thinks they are.
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
No nerves out of place here. When i said MemStick was supported by more devices i didnt just make it up. My cousin at Sony has also told me that Sony has issued more licenses to various products than CF. No doubt about it that CF is the reigning king when it comes to digi cameras and printers but as a whole MemStick is ahead.
http://www.computercraft.com.au/compact_flash-frame.html
This list here will show 220 devices that use CF. Click on "Compatibility List" You'll see 110 cameras alone use CF. Thats huge. This is last years list so the total is a little higher now.
Now look at Sonys list. Thats 335 supporting companies. Thats companies not a list of devices.
http://www.memorystick.org/msinfo/eng/memberlist/index.html
Now, im not contesting your knowledge and this is nickle and diming but i just want Walter to know that he's got a good thing with his Sony digi and their not as big bad sheeps as he thinks they are.
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cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
Stephen Peszel
Forum Enthusiast
Is decent customer service!
My $5K laptop is back in for repair; they couldn't find any fault last time and sent it back to me. Tried dealing with an obnoxious supervisor who you have to beg to be able to speak to, Ended up taking it back, got hold of another supervisor and made him find all the glitches before I left it in his hands. Pathetic! The newsgroups report so many similar experiences.
So, SONY, if you are listening, or care...improve your customer service.
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Barking up the wrong creek without a paddle.
A bird in the hand is worth too many cooks!
http://www.pbase.com/speszel/galleries
http://www.photosig.com/myphotosig.php
My $5K laptop is back in for repair; they couldn't find any fault last time and sent it back to me. Tried dealing with an obnoxious supervisor who you have to beg to be able to speak to, Ended up taking it back, got hold of another supervisor and made him find all the glitches before I left it in his hands. Pathetic! The newsgroups report so many similar experiences.
So, SONY, if you are listening, or care...improve your customer service.
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Barking up the wrong creek without a paddle.
A bird in the hand is worth too many cooks!
http://www.pbase.com/speszel/galleries
http://www.photosig.com/myphotosig.php
First of all, assuming those are the best available prices for both formats (somehting I'm not going to go out and research right now) that shows that Memory Sticks cost 20% more than CF cards, while being limited to use in Sony products. That in itself justifies calling it overpriced.
But more importantly, the 128MB capacity is insufficient for many of todays medium and high resolution cameras. A large number of people need and want 512MB and higher capacities. With the CF format, you can get a single card with a much higher capacity, and this will result in greater convenience and even greater cost savings compared to the option of purchasing two or more 128 BM Memory Sticks.
SONY digital cameras
SONY cell phones
SONY PDAs
SONY Desktop Computers
SONY Notebook Computers
SONY SONY SONY , etc.
What a crock! How about listing actual Memory Stick-supporting products from all those manufacturers instead of just boasting that they "support" the format?
Exactly.
And to illustrate the situation even more clearly, just how many products, other than those made by Sony, support Memory Stick to the exclusion of CF cards? There are quite a few products from a wide assortment of companies, in a wide assortment of product types, that support CF but not MS.
And to illustrate the situation even more clearly, just how many products, other than those made by Sony, support Memory Stick to the exclusion of CF cards? There are quite a few products from a wide assortment of companies, in a wide assortment of product types, that support CF but not MS.
Call me crazy, but I find it more useful to have 220 devices that support a format than having 300+ companies "supporting" the format while not actually making any products that use them.
LOL!
First of all let me say that though I believe in capitalism and free trade (I am a business owner after all) I do NOT believe that the quest for ever-increasing profits, growth, and market share should dominate a company's or an individual's decisions to the exclusion of all other factors. Harvard Business School can kiss my ass, as they bear no small part of the blame for the unscrupulous coprporate executives that have given us such glorious examples of unbridled capitalism as Enron, Worldcom, and others.
"Greed", to paraphrase Gordon Gecko, is NOT good. When everything revolves around greed without any other factors to balance things out, you end up with a mess. You don't like communism? Blame its existence on the unbridled greed that generates the impoverished masses needed to support a communist revolution. You don't like labor unions? Blame their existence on the greedy and abusive corporations that mistreated and underpaid their workers for ages. You don't like restrictive government regulations? Blame it on the industries that ravaged our natural resources and polluted our air, land, and water for generations.
Every action has an opposite reaction, and every person and company eventually must deal with the repercussions of their actions.
OK, enough political BS...
No. What I'm saying is that it is arrogant and inherently unfair for a company to use its market power to push an INFERIOR and OVERPRICED technology, which is a good way to describe Memory Sticks against CF cards.
If Sony offered their limited capacity Memory Sticks at a cost savings compared to CF cards, then that would be serving a useful purpose. Or if Sony offered a higher priced Memory Stick that exceeded the current cap[acities of CF cards, then that would also serve a useful purpose. But what they're doing is leveraging their market power to artificially force the sale of their memory card format, which is BOTH less capable AND more expensive than CF.
Do you think that anyone would buy Memory Sticks if they had an equal choice?
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