Michael_J
Veteran Member
You can't see it? It comes right after the 1DsMKIV.
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People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.
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People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.
Michael_J
Veteran Member
There is no such thing as a 5Dmk1 - there is however a 5D. You don't have to make up new names for Canon's cameras, if people here don't know the difference between the 5D and the 5DMKII, they should go to the beginners forum... or maybe to the Camera Database section.
--and 1Dmk3 for weddings, and have had to snow all my customers, and brainwash them into thinking the photos that came from them were just fine. I doesn't work.....they can all tell which photos were taken with the FF....(and complain that they weren't taken fast enough)..... and which ones were taken with the 1.3 crop....(complaining that the images aren't FF..)
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People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.
Ah Pek
Leading Member
where is it in Canon's lineup. I want something that is small, fast, high pixel density for reach,....
Canon, please get your act together!
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'The majesticness of that duck is overwhelming!' - Bulbol
Canon, please get your act together!
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'The majesticness of that duck is overwhelming!' - Bulbol
Why would they build something that competes with the 7D? Oly had nothing to lose with the EP-1, their E-4 isn't exactly burning the house down, sales wise. They could build a pocket sized (sorta) near-rangefinder using the same sensor as their top line camera without canniballizing sales to a great degree, and might have gotten themselves a salies hit. One that brings people to the half frame camp. Canon has little to gain, with a broad spectrum of P&S, small DSLRs, and larger pro ones. I'd like to see a digital Canonet, myself, one that can mount some of the smaller EF and EF-S lenses. But so many of the EF mount lenses are huge, compared to the size of some of the 4/3 lenses.
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Skip M
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'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
Ah Pek
Leading Member
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'The majesticness of that duck is overwhelming!' - Bulbol
Agreed. More like 7-8fps.
A 1.3x 7D was never going to happen with the mkIV on the cards and a full frame 7D would obviously compete too closely with the 5D mk2 and 1Ds mkIII.
Canon needed something to rival the D300s (1.5x) and the 7D fits the bill.
I acknowledge there are a lot of bad photographers out there using digital - I was referring more to those who at least had some idea about photography and could shoot better with digital. They can learn as they shoot easier than with film.
Hell I'm surprised by the number of hobby mums and dads who I meet who are shooting their kids playing sport and they ask me for tips - when I ask how they use the histogram a lot of them say 'what'? They also don't even read the manual. That's the spray and pray side of it I guess.
Sure with sport and film the bulk loaders, 100exp backs etc.. were in use but they were beyond the reach of the average person. Digital now provides a vehicle whereby they can at least have a better go at taking better sports images than they could ever have done with film. Some do good and others are still very ordinary.
I for one though am glad to see the back of film.
Zoooming
Hell I'm surprised by the number of hobby mums and dads who I meet who are shooting their kids playing sport and they ask me for tips - when I ask how they use the histogram a lot of them say 'what'? They also don't even read the manual. That's the spray and pray side of it I guess.
Sure with sport and film the bulk loaders, 100exp backs etc.. were in use but they were beyond the reach of the average person. Digital now provides a vehicle whereby they can at least have a better go at taking better sports images than they could ever have done with film. Some do good and others are still very ordinary.
I for one though am glad to see the back of film.
Zoooming
Sometimes it's hard to tell around here. That actually sounded like one of the more reasonable requests I've seen, lately! ;-)
but think about it, a 50mm f1.8 on a Canonet sized body with the same sensor as the 7D? Not a bad idea...
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Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
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'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
but think about it, a 50mm f1.8 on a Canonet sized body with the same sensor as the 7D? Not a bad idea...
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Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
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'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
ATR
Forum Enthusiast
pixelpepper
Forum Enthusiast
Not sure what you're thinking of here. A 50/1.8 would be equivalent to 80/2.8 on FF, which would, I suppose be a decent specialist portrait camera (some might like a bit bigger aperture, though). Or did you mean a 30/1.2, which would be more or less equivalent to a 50/1.8? Of course, the Canonet had a 40/1.7, which, with a 7D sensor, would need to be a 25/1.05.
You're probably right about that from a timing standpoint. Maybe later they can introduce a down-model 1.3x (as Nikon did with the D700 after the D3) if Canon determines there would be minimal cannibalism there.
Yep. But, to me, it would have made more sense for this 7D to be the 60D, and reserve the "7D" for a 1.3x sensor to compete head-on with the D700.
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Tacksharp
ne beginner
Senior Member
By introducing a 7 series, Canon now has a near pro grade crop body, and can continue to use the XXD series as more of a middle level, so called "prosumer", grade crop body, between the XXXD and 7 series.
The 5 series fits as a "prosumer" FF, based on the XXD body and feature set. Perhaps someday Canon will introduce a lower level FF, based on the XXXD series.
Prograde FF is of course the 1Ds series., and pro grade crop is the 1D. Canon seems reluctant to launch a small body pro grade FF body, the much dreamed about "3D". With a 7 now in the crop line up, it is possible that Canon could be closer to a 3D, basically a FF 7 series, much like the 5 is a FF XXD.
Canon and Nikon seem reluctant to go head to head on line up, preferring to "interweave" their offerings. However, the 7D does complete more head to head with the D300, so perhaps the thinking is changing, and a 3D to go head to head with the D700 is closer to reality.
Crop: XXXD - XXD - 7 - 1D
FF: ???? - 5 - ?? - 1Ds
Not looking to start the old "what is a professional camera" debate. To me, "professional" describes the photographer, and the equipment are the tools. A professional photographer could use a Rebel... I'm using "pro grade", "prosumer", etc to describe the equipment: pro grade being the most robust in terms of user customization (and skills needed for that) and build (designed to last, all weather, etc).
The 5 series fits as a "prosumer" FF, based on the XXD body and feature set. Perhaps someday Canon will introduce a lower level FF, based on the XXXD series.
Prograde FF is of course the 1Ds series., and pro grade crop is the 1D. Canon seems reluctant to launch a small body pro grade FF body, the much dreamed about "3D". With a 7 now in the crop line up, it is possible that Canon could be closer to a 3D, basically a FF 7 series, much like the 5 is a FF XXD.
Canon and Nikon seem reluctant to go head to head on line up, preferring to "interweave" their offerings. However, the 7D does complete more head to head with the D300, so perhaps the thinking is changing, and a 3D to go head to head with the D700 is closer to reality.
Crop: XXXD - XXD - 7 - 1D
FF: ???? - 5 - ?? - 1Ds
Not looking to start the old "what is a professional camera" debate. To me, "professional" describes the photographer, and the equipment are the tools. A professional photographer could use a Rebel... I'm using "pro grade", "prosumer", etc to describe the equipment: pro grade being the most robust in terms of user customization (and skills needed for that) and build (designed to last, all weather, etc).
That's exactly what I'm thinking, a mild tele on a small body. But I was thinking more in line with the 50 f1.8's small physical size, not FL or equivalent thereof. The only thing about an f1.8 that's the equivalent of an f2.8 is the OOF area, not light collecting ability, by the way.
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Skip M
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http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
Not how it seems to me. If you have a 80/1.8 on a FF it has a physical aperture of 44.4mm. A 50/1.8 on an APS-C has a physical aperture of 27.8. They're both projecting light into the same angle light cone, so the 80/1.8 will 'collect' 2.55 times more light onto the sensor as a whole. And since it's the total amount of light that determines the photon shot noise, for the same shutter speed, the FF 80, used at 1.8 will have 1.6 times less noise than the APS-C 150 used at 1.8.
If you want the ins and outs of all this, it's in Joe James' excellent essay, which continues to be extended and refined, if you haven't read it lately.
http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/
Michael_J
Veteran Member
It would seem that I have missed it again - I don't know what you are insinuating.
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.
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People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.
marcusaxlund
Leading Member
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Yes, if Canon could just have the decency to produce a good camera so I could make a fortune from my hobby.
I mean, what is this?
People laugh at me in my home watching my lousy pictures on my walls.
"You call this full frame? Hahahaha" they keep repeating. And there I stand as a jackass feeling humiliated when I could have the Sony's high ISO performance or the Nikon's 12 MP's instead of the crap that keep coming out of the 5d2.
Shape up Canon! or I'll have to swap to 4/3 standard with smaller sensors to get really good quality...
:x
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Canon Prosumer
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5D mk2
24-105 IS f/4L
70-200 IS f/2,8L
17-40 f/4L
100 macro f/2,8
I mean, what is this?
People laugh at me in my home watching my lousy pictures on my walls.
"You call this full frame? Hahahaha" they keep repeating. And there I stand as a jackass feeling humiliated when I could have the Sony's high ISO performance or the Nikon's 12 MP's instead of the crap that keep coming out of the 5d2.
Shape up Canon! or I'll have to swap to 4/3 standard with smaller sensors to get really good quality...
:x
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Canon Prosumer
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5D mk2
24-105 IS f/4L
70-200 IS f/2,8L
17-40 f/4L
100 macro f/2,8
For me it's hard to see anything other than a FF camera being competition for the D700, but 1.3x would be the best compromise. Essentially an affordable 1D mkIV.
I keep thinking a 3D, along the lines of a full frame 7D with great ISO performance, priced somewhere between the 5D and 1Ds, and probably similar to what a D800 will ultimately look like, would fill a void for Canon given they offer several crop sensor models but only 2 full frame cameras.
MM1
Senior Member
I've finally got my hands on an 1.3x sensored 1D body (1D2n) for a while. I understood why there was no APS-H 7D: UWA. There just wouldn't be UWA lenses for such a body unless Canon introduced ones.
EF-S lenses won't work (well, maybe those hacked kit lenses), and 3rd party crop lenses will work, but vignette heavily (I tried both of my DC Sigmas on the body). APS-H 7D would require Canon to make some special 12-24 "EF-H" lens.
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Cheers,
Martin
MM1
Senior Member
The primes will make 18.2+mm equivalent FOV, and with the zoom you start on 20mm equivalent FOV.
You can get to 16mm equivalent FOV with the 10-2x lenses on the crop, or more on FF with the lenses you listed.
I have a dilemma. I want to replace my 30D with 1D Mk2 of some sort, but having a choice of a very nicely priced 1D Mk2n (with all of those UWA limitations) or almost 2.5 times as expensive 1Ds Mk2 (where all my lenses become finally aligned with their FLs) is just plain bad. I get either money or features hit. :-( MPs don't matter to me, but 1D Mk2 is this cropped thing. :-|
But at least it made me think about APS-H limitations.
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Cheers,
Martin