JVC off Table -- Hope HOYA has other options

Nov. 28 (Bloomberg) -- JVC Kenwood Holdings Inc., a Japanese maker of stereo and car electronics, has abandoned plans to sell its music business, company spokesman Takaaki Nose said today.

JVC has also dropped any thought of acquiring Hoya Corp.’s Pentax camera business, Nose said. The Nikkei newspaper first reported JVC’s plan today, citing an interview with Chairman and President Haruo Kawahara.

The Yomiuri newspaper said on Nov. 4 JVC was in talks with Konami Corp. to sell its Victor Entertainment music unit and was considering a purchase of the Pentax camera brand. Yesterday, the company named a new head for its music division along with plans to rejuvenate the money-losing unit.

Pentax is making money now, as detailed in the last quarterly report, so Im not so sure Hoya is in a rush to get rid of em any longer.

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Pentax have stated that they are looking for a technology "partner", NOT a "buyer". That's a BIG difference.

Hoya know all about making glass (and money! ), Pentax people know all about bodies and lens construction (i.e. using glass), "xxx" know all about electronics technology.

It is rumoured that "xxx" could be Hitachi, that makes a lot more sense than JVC.

The current sensor providers Samsung and Sony are "suppliers" and will probably remain so if they continue to make the best sensors for the individual designs. It looks like Kodak may well provide the sensor for the upcoming 645D. This follows what Hoya/Pentax have said all along, i.e. they will choose the best for each design.
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Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK

One thing that would have probably immediately happened had JVC bought in, would have been the re-introduction of the cameras into the big retail stores. JVC has always understood the value of 'retail' real estate for their products thru good and bad economic times. How many hi end car stereo's, AV Surround gear or TV's would they sell if they were not in the wall displays where people could hear and see them?

And there is nothing that would boost sales faster, than getting the Kx and K7 along side the competition at the point of sale.

Only my opinion! Dont spank me.
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I agree with your analysis, but now with JVC out of the talks with Hoya (or at least it is rumoured so) - I see several other alternatives besides Hitachi.

I'm thinking especially about Sanyo and Sharp.
Both would, in my view, make excellent choices for Pentax. Especially Sharp...

But Hitachi would certainly also fit. After all, they was helping out Pentax with the manufacturing technology of hybrid aspherical lens elements that Pentax invented.

Question is, are they interrested?
I don't know. What would they gain by working with Hoya?
For Hoya, I see advantages with all three. But for them?

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R
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Roland Mabo said:

I agree with your analysis, but now with JVC out of the talks with Hoya (or at least it is rumoured so) - I see several other alternatives besides Hitachi.

I'm thinking especially about Sanyo and Sharp.
Both would, in my view, make excellent choices for Pentax. Especially Sharp...

But Hitachi would certainly also fit. After all, they was helping out Pentax with the manufacturing technology of hybrid aspherical lens elements that Pentax invented.

Question is, are they interrested?
I don't know. What would they gain by working with Hoya?
For Hoya, I see advantages with all three. But for them?

Click to expand...

Sanyo already make P&S compacts for many brands including Pentax. Sharp are more of a consumer manufacturer, Hitachi make semicondutors and have a very high level of expertise in integrated circuit design amd manufacturing technology.

Hitachi also make hard drives, Hoya make hard drive platters and substrates. There is some synergy/cross supply.
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Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK

A little OT here: Sigma should seize this occasion to recruit a few good pentax engineers for their camera division, Sigma camera engineers are not that good, imho

Sanyo is becoming a subsidiary of Panasonic soon, and things between Leica and Panasonic look pretty tight.

I think Sharp would be a pretty good match, however they haven't released a camcorder in a while, and don't have a camera line (or it might be a good opportunity for them to get into the game?)

I've seen Ricoh been mentioned few time in this forum, and agree that they have a similar philosophy behind their cameras. Ricoh doesn't have a DSLR line, and Pentax's compact camera line isn't very strong, so it would make a lot of sense.

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Didn't we all know this about two weeks ago?

I said this in another thread in reply to steve, I deal with Hitachi in a big way and I like the way they operate. I think Hitachi has a lot to offer with a partnership with Pentax and they would make it work.

As I said, the name could be Pentachi. ;-)

richardday said:

Roland Mabo said:

I agree with your analysis, but now with JVC out of the talks with Hoya (or at least it is rumoured so) - I see several other alternatives besides Hitachi.

I'm thinking especially about Sanyo and Sharp.
Both would, in my view, make excellent choices for Pentax. Especially Sharp...

But Hitachi would certainly also fit. After all, they was helping out Pentax with the manufacturing technology of hybrid aspherical lens elements that Pentax invented.

Question is, are they interrested?
I don't know. What would they gain by working with Hoya?
For Hoya, I see advantages with all three. But for them?

Click to expand...

Sanyo already make P&S compacts for many brands including Pentax. Sharp are more of a consumer manufacturer, Hitachi make semicondutors and have a very high level of expertise in integrated circuit design amd manufacturing technology.

Hitachi also make hard drives, Hoya make hard drive platters and substrates. There is some synergy/cross supply.
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK

Click to expand...

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In my experience, Sanyo has been known to make lots of mediocre stuff, though I know they are involved in optics and have made cameras for others.

Hitachi, well, maybe not as bad, but look how they lagged in TVs -- made tubes until the dear end, had invested lots of money in tubes. Almost like they didn't see FP coming. Not a real innovator anymore.

That said, I know both Sanyo and Hitachi have lots of experience in electronics.

Sharp (which now owns a good bit of Pioneer) would seem a better fit, though of late their technological advances, save for LCD panels, seems to have lagged, though they certainly would seem to have some deep pockets.

Only time will tell.

Pete said:

In my experience, Sanyo has been known to make lots of mediocre stuff, though I know they are involved in optics and have made cameras for others.

Hitachi, well, maybe not as bad, but look how they lagged in TVs -- made tubes until the dear end, had invested lots of money in tubes. Almost like they didn't see FP coming. Not a real innovator anymore.

Click to expand...

I think this is more to do with the fact that Hitachi is a manufacturer, not so much a marketer. So, they can make what is required, it is up to a company like Pentax to ustilise the manufacturing know how of Hitachi and put their excellent electronic expertise into products that the public want. This is why I think Hitachi is a good partner. Added to that, I think that Hitachi is less likely to want to take over Pentax and be happy to be a "silent" partner.

Pete226109 said:

That said, I know both Sanyo and Hitachi have lots of experience in electronics.

Sharp (which now owns a good bit of Pioneer) would seem a better fit, though of late their technological advances, save for LCD panels, seems to have lagged, though they certainly would seem to have some deep pockets.

Only time will tell.

Click to expand...

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Omega_Leader said:

Didn't we all know this about two weeks ago?

Click to expand...

No, two weeks ago people here claimed that there were no such talks between JVC and Hoya. Now we know that there were talks and that they ended without JVC and Hoya getting together.

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JensR said:

Omega_Leader said:

Didn't we all know this about two weeks ago?

Click to expand...

No, two weeks ago people here claimed that there were no such talks between JVC and Hoya. Now we know that there were talks and that they ended without JVC and Hoya getting together.

Click to expand...

He is right, we knew that - despite the Yomiuri article - Hoya won't sell Pentax to JVC. That was 24 days ago, when both Hoya and JVC promptly dismissed the article.

You can say 'now we know there were talks' but all the important details are not available for us, mere mortals

Alex S.

Not sure why Sanyo comes up in these threads as a potential buyer. They are owned by Panasonic and that probably means they aren't interested.

This post catches the game -- company spokesman are like US baseball general managers talking of player trades: they have no reason to tell us the truth. Only later, when they make a reference to the past, can we know that we were being deceived. So in the case of Pentax we now know that JVC was at the table, and we can also speculate that JVC considered buying Pentax from HOYA. There is some sense to such a speculation, HOYA like a baseball general manager must be ready to listen to all reasonable offers -- any other position would be irresponsible.

We too have a stake in this corporate exchange -- we own glass, we own bodies, and any step 9good or bad) by HOYA could affect our position. Our camera bodies are quickly depreciating, but our Pentax glass will hold its value as long as the Pentax story goes forward.

So now from those whjo have responded to this post, the consensus for a "golden knight" seems to be Hitachi. It would be interesting for someone with true knowledge of this company to make the case for why Pentaxc would look good to Hitachi.
John

Alex Sarbu said:

JensR said:

Omega_Leader said:

Didn't we all know this about two weeks ago?

Click to expand...

No, two weeks ago people here claimed that there were no such talks between JVC and Hoya. Now we know that there were talks and that they ended without JVC and Hoya getting together.

Click to expand...

He is right, we knew that - despite the Yomiuri article - Hoya won't sell Pentax to JVC. That was 24 days ago, when both Hoya and JVC promptly dismissed the article.

Click to expand...

Alex, I have a different recollection of this. Many here said that the dismissal meant that there had been no talks and news of those talks were only wrong rumours, whereas others said that there indeed were talks.

Alex Sarbu said:

You can say 'now we know there were talks' but all the important details are not available for us, mere mortals

Click to expand...

Yes. It seems JVC isn't terribly healthy either, but they decided to stick to what they know and work out an in-house solution. But the details of why they changed their plans will remain unclear for us.

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de

JensR said:

Alex Sarbu said:

JensR said:

Omega_Leader said:

Didn't we all know this about two weeks ago?

Click to expand...

No, two weeks ago people here claimed that there were no such talks between JVC and Hoya. Now we know that there were talks and that they ended without JVC and Hoya getting together.

Click to expand...

He is right, we knew that - despite the Yomiuri article - Hoya won't sell Pentax to JVC. That was 24 days ago, when both Hoya and JVC promptly dismissed the article.

Click to expand...

Alex, I have a different recollection of this. Many here said that the dismissal meant that there had been no talks and news of those talks were only wrong rumours, whereas others said that there indeed were talks.

Click to expand...

I see it more like dismissing the Yomiuri article, which IMO is false and misleading. IIRC some people suggested maybe Hoya was looking for a partner, not for a buyer, thus not rejecting the idea that Hoya and JVC were talking about something.

There are other possibilities as well; like JVC approaching Hoya in order to buy Pentax from them - and being promptly refused. Or Hoya trying to get rid of Pentax, which I highly doubt. Or it might be just a baseless rumor, Hoya and JVC never talked about Pentax, and it's either misinterpretation or it's entirely made up. All we have is some vague Japanese article which won't even quote it's sources.

In other words, as I've said we don't know the important details; what we know is that Hoya will not sell Pentax to JVC. Nothing new, then

JensR said:

JensR said:

You can say 'now we know there were talks' but all the important details are not available for us, mere mortals

Click to expand...

Yes. It seems JVC isn't terribly healthy either, but they decided to stick to what they know and work out an in-house solution. But the details of why they changed their plans will remain unclear for us.

Click to expand...

That's an understatement, they're in quite a bad shape.

This is why I doubt they can buy Pentax, or that Hoya was looking for them (when you sell something, go to the one with no money... yeah, sure!), or that JVC would be a better owner than the financially sound&healthy Hoya.

Alex S.

Roland Mabo said:

I agree with your analysis, but now with JVC out of the talks with Hoya (or at least it is rumoured so) - I see several other alternatives besides Hitachi.

I'm thinking especially about Sanyo and Sharp

Click to expand...

Panasonic bought Sanyo last year... not that there would be anything wrong with a Panasonic-Pentax tie-in but it would be at that level, not the 'Sanyo' level

Roland Mabo said:

Both would, in my view, make excellent choices for Pentax. Especially Sharp...

Click to expand...

Sharp?!?!?!

Top flight for electronic components and some advanced technologies but a rather dodgy name in consumer electronics. I guess they could supply LCD displays and maybe CMOS sensors to Pentax in the Same way Samsung did (does?) but what would they get back in any business relationship? Why would they buy Pentax off Hoya? With Samsung, there was a desire of the 'Partner company' to get some credibility in 'serious' camera manufacture but I doubt Sharp have any such desires, nor that Pentax can offer a good ROCE for a company with no experience in that sector

Roland Mabo said:

But Hitachi would certainly also fit. After all, they was helping out Pentax with the manufacturing technology of hybrid aspherical lens elements that Pentax invented.

Click to expand...

Sounding kind of desperate here...

Roland Mabo said:

Question is, are they interrested?
I don't know. What would they gain by working with Hoya?
For Hoya, I see advantages with all three. But for them?

Click to expand...

JVC and Pentax could have had some synergies in JVC's video business (rather like Minolta and Sony) but now that deal seems to be off (maybe somebody told them about the quality problems in the VN plant, or they got scared of the potential SDM repair bill somebody's going to get saddled-with?)

I could see a benefit for Panasonic... Pentax pancake prime lenses and optical expertise could be very helpful in the m4/3rds world, and correspondingly they could put FF sensors in Panasonic-Pentax optical K-mount DSLR bodies to capture a semi-pro (or maybe even pro?) audience that wouldn't be interested in m4/3rds. They could also manufacture a fully coupled k-mount m4/3rds adaptor (such a thing is probably technically possible, but not currently in anybody's interests to manufacture) to migrate some Pentax users to m4/3rds

Otherwise I don't see who would want Pentax, other than to 'kill-off' a potential competitor

... just how much value we can place on Hoya announcements concerning Pentax's future

Previous denials of 'talks to sell Pentax camera division to JVC' turn out to be the usual lies. Sheesh... is that company capable of telling the truth?