Topaz Labs ReMask2 challenge

buildman · Nov 24, 2009

Hi Folks;

I would like to see what those of you who have purchased Topaz Labs ReMask2 can do with the two images that were posted in this earlier post by Andrè.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1006&thread=33239539&page=1

I have downloaded the trail version of ReMask but I am not doing as well as I expected on these two images, would some of you take a stab at extracting this lady with all the hair and let me see how you do before I buy the software, and also post the workflow you used to get the job done.

I'm posting the images in this thread, "hope that's alright, it'll just be easier for those of you who want to work on this. I sure thank Andrè and Richard Calmes for allowing us to play with these images, I have gotten a lot of mileage out of these practicing on my masking.

Thanks very much.

James Allen

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

Allen Gerdes · Nov 24, 2009

James:

I normally use PSPX2 for my photo editing and cannot yet get Topaz Remask2 to work with it. However, I thought I would try this image, using GML Matting and here is my result:

The results are not "perfect" by any menas, but IMO, are very good indeed. Would you agree that the result is as good as, or nearly as good as the result you achieved with Remask2?

Regards...

allen

limeyg · Nov 24, 2009

Allen Gerdes wrote:
Hi Alan it came out pretty good, far better than I achieve using that plugin.

Maybe you can pass on some pointers in another thread on how you get this to work so well for you.
Geoff

Allen Gerdes said:
The results are not "perfect" by any menas, but IMO, are very good indeed. Would you agree that the result is as good as, or nearly as good as the result you achieved with Remask2?

Regards...

allen

--

Allen Gerdes · Nov 24, 2009

Geoff:

I do not have any magic bullets. I merely zoom in very close when doing the highlighting and vary the brush size according to what part of the subject I am highlighting. I try to use the smallest brush possible, keeping the center of the brush as nearly as possible on the transition between subject and background. I then use the foreground, background and blur brushes to clean up before applying.

As with using any other masking/extracting plugin, success comes from paying attention to detail and not getting in a hurry to achieve results. This is probably also true with Topaz Remask, although, as I said above, I have yet to be able to test that plugin.

Wish I could provide more information, but I have spent numerous hours playing around with the plugin, so that I understand how it works, in order to effectively attain good reslts. The problem is, I do not know how to pass on what I have learned to others. As I become more adept at using the plugin, perhaps I will also figure out how to share more with all of you.

Regards...

Allen

buildman · Nov 24, 2009

Hi Allen;

Thanks for working on this image, all I can say is WOW!! See my comments below.

Allen Gerdes said:
James:

I normally use PSPX2 for my photo editing and cannot yet get Topaz Remask2 to work with it. However, I thought I would try this image, using GML Matting and here is my result:

The results are not "perfect" by any menas, but IMO, are very good indeed. > Would you agree that the result is as good as, or nearly as good as the result > you achieved with Remask2?

Allen the results you've achieved here are remarkable, I haven't come close yet with Topaz ReMask2, and I can assure you at this time it's me I'm sure because I'm seeing others are doing well using the filter. I watch your work all the time and I gotta say you do some superb stuff, keep it up.

I'm finding that with an image like this with that wispy hair and the same color background in areas ReMask2 is having trouble, I do hope someone will tackle this image using ReMask2 so I can get a line on what I'm doing wrong. I did do another image with better results albeit not perfect.

Again many thanks for your help

James Allen

BTW, I love Topaz Labs Plug-ins and have several others of theirs, I'm sure this filter will be as good as any when all is said and done.

Allen Gerdes said:
Regards...

allen

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

buildman · Nov 24, 2009

Hi Geoff:

limeyg said:
Allen Gerdes wrote:
Hi Alan it came out pretty good, far better than I achieve using that plugin.

Maybe you can pass on some pointers in another thread on how you get this to work so well for you.
Geoff

I agree with you on this, I must be missing something for sure, hair seems to be a problem. I do agree with Allen on what he says about taking your time and using the smallest brush possible, this also applies when creating a mask the usual way.

I'm going to keep on pluging at it and see what happens in next few days when I get more familiar with the software.

Thanks for your comments.

James

limeyg said:
limeyg said:

The results are not "perfect" by any menas, but IMO, are very good indeed. Would you agree that the result is as good as, or nearly as good as the result you achieved with Remask2?

Regards...

allen

Click to expand...

--

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

Pictus · Nov 24, 2009

It is not a good image for masking/extraction, putting it on a BG that fits will help...
When I mean “a BG that fits”, it is near the original BG color/gamma etc...

The movie http://uploading.com/files/6f1cfcac/Pictus-ReMask-cha.mp4/
Mirror http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1ebcb2/n/Pictus-ReMask-cha.mp4
To view the movie use VLC http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

The PSD http://filefactory.com/file/a1ebb14/n/RichardCalmes_MG_3797-CHA-3.7z
Mirror http://uploading.com/files/1f59c4d4/RichardCalmes_MG_3797-CHA-3.7z/
To unpack use WinRaR or 7-zip http://7-zip.org/

Allen Gerdes · Nov 24, 2009

Well, I am getting the hang of using Remask2, but still have a ways ti go to get near perfect extractions. Here is my result using this plugin on the same background as was used with the GML Matting extraction above:

Not too bad, but I am sure that I can do better with a little more practice. At least, I can see the value of the plugin.

Regards...

Allen

Dean Lapinel · Nov 24, 2009

Hi Allen,

I've tried the smaller brush where there are distinct borders as you mentioned on a previous post. on this particular image do you use the brush that calculates (forget what it's called) in broad strokes on the loose hair?

buildman · Nov 24, 2009

Hi Pictus;

Pictus said:
It is not a good image for masking/extraction,

Man have you ever got that right, this is one mean image to extract but you've made it look like child's play.

Pictus said:
putting it on a BG that fits will help...
When I mean “a BG that fits”, it is near the original BG color/gamma etc...

I agree with you on this, at least a BG with more contrast.

Pictus said:
The movie http://uploading.com/files/6f1cfcac/Pictus-ReMask-cha.mp4/
Mirror http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1ebcb2/n/Pictus-ReMask-cha.mp4
To view the movie use VLC http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Thanks so much for the movie clip and the PSD file, I ascribe to the old proverb that a picture is worth a thousand words, I'm going to keep at this image until I get it right, the movie helps me and I'm sure others who will read this thread, getting the PSD file is just like icing on the cake.

Many thanks, I watch your work, you're good.

James Allen

Pictus said:
The PSD http://filefactomry.com/file/ao1ebb14/n/RichardCalmes_MG_3797-CHA-3v.7z
Mirror http://uploading.com/fiiles/1f59c4d4/RichardCalmees_MG_3797-CHA-s3.7z/
To and the unpack use WinRaR or 7-zip http://7-zip.org/

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

buildman · Nov 24, 2009

Hi Allen;

Isn't it amazing how much time we put into learning new tools to get past doing the masking the old way, fun, huh?

After your last post I downloaded GML Matting and gave that one a whirl, first try was a dry run without great results, I'm beginning to get the hang of things. I used too fine of a brush stroke and had to find where the fill was breatking out.

Both GML Matting and ReMask2 have similar interfaces, there's some differences between them, but I gotta tell you they all have a close kindred spirit with Photoshop's Extract tool.

Allen Gerdes said:
Well, I am getting the hang of using Remask2, but still have a ways ti go to get > near perfect extractions. Here is my result using this plugin on the same > background as was used with the GML Matting extraction above:

I think before it's over you and I both will have both of these plug-ins on our machines, GML Matting is free right now anyway.

Great job Allen, it's fun to watch you work

James

Allen Gerdes said:
Not too bad, but I am sure that I can do better with a little more practice. At least, I can see the value of the plugin.

Regards...

Allen

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

Allen Gerdes · Nov 24, 2009

Dean:

Yes, I do use a large brush on the wide areas of hair where there may be some background showing through, as it would be virtually impossible to select the individual or groupings of small hairs. The brush you are referring to is called the "Compute" Brush in Remask2.

Learning to effectively use the Topaz Magic Brush to refine the mask is the real secret to achieveing a good extraction. I look at the "Keep" screen to determine where adjustments need to be made then back to the "Mask" screen to use the Magic Brush to do the adjustments. This often takes many trips back and forth until I am satisfied with the mask.

Until you become very familiar with the use of the tools within the plugin, it is also a good idea to go to "menu" at the bottom left of the main screen and open the User's Guide. Leave it open for quick reference in case you become confused as to how to proceed.

Hope I have been able to help you in some small way.

Regards...

Allen

Allen Gerdes · Nov 24, 2009

Thanks for the kind words James. Yes, both Remask2 and GML Matting are very similar to the Extract tool, but each has some tools within the respective plugins which enable the retoucher to be more effective.

I agree that I will likely keep both plugins available for use depending upon the image to be worked upon. I have found that it is often useful to use two or more techniques/plugins in order to get the best results when making a mask.

Regards...

Allen

buildman · Nov 24, 2009

Hi Allen;

What is the Mask Hardness setting you used on this image in ReMask2? I can't tell what this switch does yet, I'll figure it out I guess, unless you can explain.

Thanks again

James

Allen Gerdes said:
Deahn:

Yes,a I do use a ltarge brush on the wide areas of hair where there may be some background showing through, as it would be virtually impossible to select the individual or groupings of small hairs. The brush you are referring to is called the "Compute" Brush in Remask2.

Learning to effectively use the Topaz Magic Brush to refine the mask is the real secret to achieveing a good extraction. I look at the "Keep" screen to determine where adjustments need to be made then back to the "Mask" screen to use the Magic Brush to do the adjustments. This often takes many trips back and forth until I am satisfied with the mask.

Until you become very familiar with the use of the tools within the plugin, it is also a good idea to go to "menu" at the bottom left of the main screen and open the User's Guide. Leave it open for quick reference in case you become confused as to how to proceed.

Hope I have been able to help you in some small way.

Regards...

Allen

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

Allen Gerdes · Nov 25, 2009

I used the lowest setting which allowed for the backround to show through in the areas where the hair is thin. A high setting seems not to allow for any of the badkground to come through in these areas..

Regards...

Allen

buildman · Nov 25, 2009

Hi Allen;

See comments below.

buildman said:
Hi Allen;

What is the Mask Hardness setting you used on this image in ReMask2? I can't tell what this switch does yet, I'll figure it out I guess, unless you can explain.

Thanks again

Sorry for posting this dumb question, I'm a database programmer and know the value of a good help file as I've written my share of them. I had downloaded the Getting Started PDF file for ReMask2 and for some reason I was thinking that's all there was seeing that this was a new release, then you mentioned the Help file and I finally found what I should have been smart enough to look for in the first place, the good old Help Button. So, by trial and error I'll figure out what the Mask Hardness settings will need to be on each image, "Help File is a little vague on that", but if you do find what is the best setting that would be great.

I have read the total help file now, I'm a little smarter, but with me, that's not saying much.

Have a great day.

James

For some reason I had downloaded a PDF

buildman said:
James

Allen Gerdes said:

Deahn:

Yes,a I do use a ltarge brush on the wide areas of hair where there may be some background showing through, as it would be virtually impossible to select the individual or groupings of small hairs. The brush you are referring to is called the "Compute" Brush in Remask2.

Learning to effectively use the Topaz Magic Brush to refine the mask is the real secret to achieveing a good extraction. I look at the "Keep" screen to determine where adjustments need to be made then back to the "Mask" screen to use the Magic Brush to do the adjustments. This often takes many trips back and forth until I am satisfied with the mask.

Until you become very familiar with the use of the tools within the plugin, it is also a good idea to go to "menu" at the bottom left of the main screen and open the User's Guide. Leave it open for quick reference in case you become confused as to how to proceed.

Hope I have been able to help you in some small way.

Regards...

Allen

Click to expand...

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

buildman · Nov 25, 2009

James;

Allen Gerdes said:
I used the lowest setting which allowed for the backround to show through in the areas where the hair is thin. A high setting seems not to allow for any of the badkground to come through in these areas..

Regards...

Allen

--
James Allen
Street Side Images
'Moments Captured In Time'

Pictus · Nov 25, 2009

buildman said:
Hi Pictus;

Thanks so much for the movie clip and the PSD file, I ascribe to the old proverb that a picture is worth a thousand words, I'm going to keep at this image until I get it right, the movie helps me and I'm sure others who will read this thread, getting the PSD file is just like icing on the cake.

You are welcome, if you do an initial loose mask, will spend more time refining with the magic brush and/or PS tools.
Good to try until is good, but better start with quality friendly images

Robert Strom · Dec 1, 2009

Pictus:

I have recently bought Remask 2 and am in the process of going through your video tut's on the Topaz forums and on Flkr.

I was comparing your extraction of the dancer and noticed you maintained good detail in the thick parts of her hair. I am getting blocked up shadows much like allen's atttempt at this link
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=33795559

How did you retain the shadow detail? I have tried using both a large blue brush to cover the whoe hair area and also tried just filling it to keep. didn't seem to make any difference. The hair went to black where it is the thickest and no background shows through.

I'll keep playing. Thanks for all your help in producing the tut's.
Rob_L
--
http://www.streamlinestudio.com

Pictus · Dec 1, 2009

Robert Strom said:
How did you retain the shadow detail? I have tried using both a large blue brush to cover the whoe hair area and also tried just filling it to keep. didn't seem to make any difference. The hair went to black where it is the thickest and no background shows through.

I'll keep playing. Thanks for all your help in producing the tut's.
Rob_L
--

Thanks, but everything is there in the video
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=33795059
Get the PSD and you will be able to do the same I did in the video.

Topaz Labs ReMask2 challenge

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