What's The 1Ds Point?

Certainly it won't do 8fps. Did anyone say this was a 1D
replacement. I didn't think it was. Not everyone needs 8fps. I am
quite sure Canon will be marketing both cameras just like the Nikon
X and H cameras.

Actually I would be impressed if it did 3FPS at full size. I
suspect 2FPS since it is CMOS and the amount of data to move.

This is the camera that fills in the High End for Canon. A logical
step. Really Canon has been doing an amazing Job with their DSLR's.

I think the only surprise with this camera was they went full frame
and 11MP. I expected 1.3 FOV crop and about 9MP.

As the Flagship pairing, the 1D and 1Ds are hard to criticise IMO.

Peter
I too think we will see Canon follow the D1x/D1h model for some time yet. And as a pair they cover just about every need, and the 1D on it's own works well as an "all arounder", something the D1h just could not quite do.

Yes 11Mp full frame was a big surprise, I guess we did the same calculations because we both got to 9Mp/1.3x (using the D60 specs and scaled right?). 2FPS would be just about perfect as well, my studio lights are only good for about 1~1.5FPS anyway, 3FPS would be nice to have, but it is not really necessary. 8FPS@11Mp is a way off in the future.

--
Valliesto
'A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five
minutes longer.'
  • R.W. Emerson
 
We all have different needs in photography. With that in mind the 1Ds will fill the needs of some but not all. That's a good thing.

For instance; Film doesn't always suit my needs as well as digital because of time demands made by clients and the fact that printers want digital files rather than negatives. So I would spend MANY hours scaning etc.

D30/D60 met those needs but I shoot 95% with wide lenses and plus I need low light autofocus speed.

1D was close, but not quite....still problems for ME because of the lens multiplier factor. If I shot sports I would have been in heaven. I almost bought it but rumors (accurate it seems) of a full frame 6 mp led me to hold off. 11mp is gravy.

1Ds,full frame, 6MP+, fast focusing, durable, Canon digital: Finally I can get into digital shooting !

It's the tool I need, maybe not the tool you need.

I shoot pro on the side. I have TURNED DOWN work this summer because I just don't have the time to scan dozens of rolls of film. Nor would my client's budget allow for out sourcing the scanning. For every hour I shoot I look at 2-3 hours of lab/computer work.

To be able to quickly edit, burn to CD, and have a full resolution scan all virtually instantly is HUGE. It will thrill my clients. It frees me up to shoot more ($$$) and work less going to labs or sitting at a computer.

Bottom line, just becuase the 1Ds isn't for you doesn't mean it's not a HUGE leap for others and GREAT news from Canon.

On the flip side nor does it mean a D30, D60, S1, S2, 1D, 1DX is bad. If it suits YOUR needs than it's a GREAT camera.

The forums need to be more positive and less negative.

Odd people are already bashing a camera that won't be announced (again) for 2 weeks. Much less spent any time in the real world.

THANK YOU CANON !!!

Regards.....Peter
 
Steven...

Remember... Hard Drives .. still crash...
and the new Panasonic DVD II run in the $700.00
price range (I think), and they store 4.3 GB or do
at least CDs.

So, if you have 160 gb of photos go to zero .. yo up
da Creek... 8=(

Hugh
Yea, ok, but again, for the 1-in-a-100, or 500, or 1,000 that you
NEED that detail - is it worth the overhead of all those RAW files
that will eat through your hard-drives??
120GB for $179 = what? 6000 pictures or so at 20 MB each. Seems
like not much to pay compared to price of the actual camera
equipment.

Dave
--
Hugh Rea
 
Peter,

I found this info on Steve's Digicam Web Site:
What's New...

Hugh
8=(

Hugh
11MP sounds great...but can someone tell me if this will translate
into better quality 8x10's?? Noticably better 11x14's?

I'm loving my 13x19's with the 1D, I even blew up a great pic of my
daughter to 2' x 3' with no grain or pixels or noise of any kind.
A little softer...but the truth is, maybe I'm trying NOT to regret
my $5K investment, but do want to blow up our pores into poster
sizes??
--
Hugh Rea
--
In the beginning there was nothing, and then even that exploded.
--
Hugh Rea
 
If the 1Ds was "only" 6MP, then this zoom advantage would be lost:
a D60 would be preferable for slow-moving long zoom work, since it
would have 1.6x the resolution within the same 62% FOV crop.

By going for 11MP, the 1Ds gets to have its cake and eat it, too:
not only does it fit 15% more pixels (6.9MP) into the D60's FOV,
but you don't lose any wide-angle.

You can look at it like this: on a D60, the 28-135 lens becomes a
45-216. On the 1Ds, the 28-135 becomes a 28-216 if you need 11MP
quality (rare), or a 28-248 at 6MP! If you can live with a 3MP
image, then the same lens becomes a 28-500!!!

Again, if you only "need" 3MP output, a 16-35 becomes a 16-130! Of
course whether you can get by with a 3MP image or not depends on
the quality of the pixels. I doubt that the D1s's pixels are of
any worse quality than the 1D's or the D60's pixels, they are only
15% smaller than the D60's pixels, in which case 3MP is OK most of
the time provided the shot is well-framed.

This is amazing stuff. Many photographers will be able to justify
a 1Ds purchase by their resultant savings in lens purchases. A
28-70 combined with a 70-200 would give you 28-200 at 11MP, 28-370
at 6MP, and 28-740 at 3MP. Honestly, how many of us need more than
that? To get the same 3MP coverage on a D60, you'd need to add a
17-35, and even then you'd still be short 100mm.
11MP sounds great...but can someone tell me if this will translate
into better quality 8x10's?? Noticably better 11x14's?

I'm loving my 13x19's with the 1D, I even blew up a great pic of my
daughter to 2' x 3' with no grain or pixels or noise of any kind.
A little softer...but the truth is, maybe I'm trying NOT to regret
my $5K investment, but do want to blow up our pores into poster
sizes??
--
D60, 28-135 IS, 550EX
 
11MP sounds great...but can someone tell me if this will translate
into better quality 8x10's?? Noticably better 11x14's?

I'm loving my 13x19's with the 1D, I even blew up a great pic of my
daughter to 2' x 3' with no grain or pixels or noise of any kind.
A little softer...but the truth is, maybe I'm trying NOT to regret
my $5K investment, but do want to blow up our pores into poster
sizes??
I can see it now.............
"Hey baby, can I buy you a drink........
want to come back to my place I'll even bring out my 1Ds"

I'll enjoy the D60 thanks.
 
I welcome this wonderful camera. I just cannot afford it if it goes over $5000 dollars. I think that is the magic number that most people can stomach but not much more.
11MP sounds great...but can someone tell me if this will translate
into better quality 8x10's?? Noticably better 11x14's?

I'm loving my 13x19's with the 1D, I even blew up a great pic of my
daughter to 2' x 3' with no grain or pixels or noise of any kind.
A little softer...but the truth is, maybe I'm trying NOT to regret
my $5K investment, but do want to blow up our pores into poster
sizes??
 
Hi Steve ...

Go to my profile page and read my other
email .. and let me know what Ya think ...
rather than having me just recap my thoughts

Sincerely
Hugh
Race you all to eBay!!!
Eyes forward... and does anyone remember the
first High-End Recording CD-Rom's that went
for $13,000 or more. My first computer CD and it was
just play back was $210.00 (1x) ...
Well you get the Idea....

Hugh
11MP sounds great...but can someone tell me if this will translate
into better quality 8x10's?? Noticably better 11x14's?

I'm loving my 13x19's with the 1D, I even blew up a great pic of my
daughter to 2' x 3' with no grain or pixels or noise of any kind.
A little softer...but the truth is, maybe I'm trying NOT to regret
my $5K investment, but do want to blow up our pores into poster
sizes??
--
Hugh Rea
--
Hugh Rea
 
Add another advantage for the 1Ds over the D60's sensor size: the pixel size of 1Ds is bigger: Its surface is 1.6x1.6=2.56 times larger, the number of pixels is 11/6=approx. 1.8 times more ==> Pixel size is therefore 2.56/1.8=1.4 times bigger :-) This could indicate that sensitivity will have increased as well. Will it give us ISO 1600 and maybe more ??
By going for 11MP, the 1Ds gets to have its cake and eat it, too:
not only does it fit 15% more pixels (6.9MP) into the D60's FOV,
but you don't lose any wide-angle.
 
Yah, in the meantime I saw his ASSUMPTION too. I was hoping you might have a more reliable source (like sjh's little birdie). Regardless, I won't be buying a 1Ds. I'll stick with my D60 for a few years.
I found this info on Steve's Digicam Web Site:
What's New...

Hugh
Hi,
The Est. price on the EOS-1Ds is $7600.00 for
da BOD...

8=(
--
In the beginning there was nothing, and then even that exploded.
 
Here is an example of the D60's noise level at 5 minutes.

This was ISO 400, at about 80 degrees F. ambient temp. and after taking 4 other 5 minute shots in succession just before this image (i.e. the chip was hot). Skies were mag 5.0-5.5.

This is a relatively tight 100% crop, but is otherwise unprocessed. Part of what is cropped out is the RSM (right side magenta) that appears in these long exposures and gets worse as heat builds up. RSM covers about 20% of the frame for exposures of this length.

I find this noise level to be remarkably low for an uncooled camera. It should be much better in colder conditions.

On the battery topic, I usually use the AC adapter since I shoot from my backyard and need power for the scope, but I have imaged at remote sites for several hours using 4 batteries and the battery grip.

Joe


with excellent results. I am hoping for 10 minutes+.

And yes the D60 (and even the D100) have set new standards for
long exposure digital work without resorting to cold temps.

I can only imagine the D60 on a cold winter night.

Steven

Brian Kennedy wrote:

--
---
My really bad summer pictures:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/summer_travels
 
I can see not that most people who are voicing objections or questioning the need for the 1Ds are those who have already made a large investment and who may be bothered by the release of something better just after they sent so much money. I have been waiting for a FF sensor sized body because I do not like the idea of small sensors that you have make multiplier adjustments to use. If I put a 24mm lens on a body, I want it to be a 24mm not something more! Give me a FF body and I will be happy. There is no point in asking what is the point for a FF framed sensor because it makes so much sense to have the CORRECT sensor size in a camera.
 
One (possibly not I) might argue that a 24mm lens is calibrated as such when used on a 35mm frame. Why should we be limited to 35mm standards? If you want a wider angle than the lens you're using, buy one that has a lower focal length - what the value of that figure is, to my mind, is irrelevant. What's more relevant is that you're not using the entire area of that expensive glass you paid for.

If non-FF DSLRs continue to be produced and introduced in the lower end of the market I can see lenses as having various focal length 'ratings' on the box depending upon the camera's multiplier purely so people moving from 35mm have a base to work from.

Personally I'm waiting on the price of the 1Ds. I've lived very happily with my D30, resisted the D60 ... resisted the 1D but need the better AF. If the 1Ds is toooo much, I'll probably swing for a used 1D.

J.
I can see not that most people who are voicing objections or
questioning the need for the 1Ds are those who have already made a
large investment and who may be bothered by the release of
something better just after they sent so much money. I have been
waiting for a FF sensor sized body because I do not like the idea
of small sensors that you have make multiplier adjustments to use.
If I put a 24mm lens on a body, I want it to be a 24mm not
something more! Give me a FF body and I will be happy. There is no
point in asking what is the point for a FF framed sensor because it
makes so much sense to have the CORRECT sensor size in a camera.
--
http://www.saeculis.com
 
Agreed, but I still want RESOLUTION. A post above summed it up with the group shot concept. Shoot a large group photo and want decent detail on the faces for an 11"x14"? You need MFormat Resolution. Upsampling will not increase the detail.

It's all about the moment and the detail. The device must act as a second skin and mated with proper glass, give me the group shots and landscapes I desire.
Best,
Robert

Bippy wrote:
I'm just interested in a 20mm lens giving a 20mm field of
view, and a full sized viewfinder.

In otherwords, a D-SLR mimicking the shooting experience of a real
film SLR is what I'm after.
 
As
lens design is already being challenged by 6 MPx sensors
I expect the flaws will be readily apparent at 11.1 MPx.
But, a full-frame (i.e. 24x36mm) 11.1 Mpx sensor has more than twice the surface area of the current D60 sized sensor. The pixel density will be about the same as the current sensors, so the lenses won't have to resolve any better to perform just as well on the 11.1 sensor.

Max
 
How will you be able the see this when you make the shot? I'm not
just talking about the framing, but more about the composition. in
your viewfinder? I dont think so, unless you have an EVF with
digital zoom capabillity
EVF with zooming capability would be the most efficient way to do it

If you're only interested in taking photos at full-frame and 1.5x magnification, say, then a light-up frame within the viewfinder could be used. The same light-up LEDs that indicate active focus points could be used. There's no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too!

--
JCDoss
D30/BiG-ED
17-35L, 28-135IS, 50/1.4
 
To all,

The 'point' of 11MP escapes most here because they are thinking in
terms of output to their desktop printer. The reality is that 11MP
in an aspect ratio close to 35mm is the perfect, (or close to
perfect), number required for most full magazine pages at 8 bit
without upressing. (i.e., 133-175 line screen glossy) Although
upressing the present 1D to that size has not been a problem, there
are times I am forced to use the Pro Back on some images. Although
the Pro Back is 16MP, it is square, and hence much closer to 11MP
when cropped to the normally appropriate aspect ratio. I envision
selling the Pro Back and replacing it with the 1Ds.
Now the only question is real world availability. Knowing Canon, I
would guess late spring 2003,...so I don't expect to be trading in
my 1D's and Kodak back anytime real soon.

Regards
Mastrianni
 
Mastrianni,

Depending on the final buffer & write times, this is the camera I've been waiting for to take our studio part way to digital capture. I believe the camera will fit a nieche between 35mm & 6x7 conventional film.

I will be contacting Canon to see if we can a test an early model & or possibly work out a trade for endorsement. This is a really exciting development for our particular needs. Hopefully this experience with the 1Ds will lead us to use the original 1D in place of of conventional 35mm film for fast paced or action shots.

Sincerely,
CLTHRS
 
shot for shot you will see more resolution as the lenses are not cropped

The crop factor also crops the resolution of the lens by the same ratio. But you are correct. In many instances you won't see a difference. Wide angle landscapes will be nicer. I normally stitch multiple shots. I won't have to stitch so much. My little 24L will be quite a bit wider (I'm coming from a 1.6 crop D60 though).
 

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