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5D II vs 7D; quick test

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The colors are more similar now.

The 7D image looks slightly softer but has more saturated colors.

The first part--sharpness--could just be that the difference in AA filters between the two means that the 7D needs a bit more capture sharpening than the 5D II.

The second part--color saturation--could just be the difference in exposure between the two (exposure looks better in the 7D shot to me) since the brighter you go, the less saturated objects (green moss, bucket, etc.) will look.

The 7D also seems to be showing a bit of luminance noise here that the 5D II doesn't show.

Still...very, very close for these alledged "apples" and "oranges" comparison.
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http://fotoman99.smugmug.com/
 
chironNYC said:
jeanbaptiste--

ah, now i see what you meant. sorry i misunderstood. but while you are obviously entitled to like what you like, i think there are also things about the smaller senor that can be and will be viewed as imaging advantages as time goes by. for example, the slightly greater dof in crop may be seen as more optimal , e.g. let's you more easily get both eyes in focus in a portrait or better records a sharp scene with different focal points of interest.
Peter
Click to expand...
it is a common misconception. FF camera can reach exactly the same wide DOF as an aps-c camera or even a compact camera. The f/stop number is higher by definition but diffraction kick-in later as well so smaller sensors have strictly no advantage at all versus bigger sensor.
On the other hand, bigger sensors allow you to have (if desired) shallower DOF.
So bigger sensors are more flexible than smaller.

While I do not swear only by super thin dof portrait, it is cheaper (and lighter) to use a 70-200 f/4 +135 f/2 (part of my setup) with a 5D compared to switching to 70-200 f/2,8 +85mm f/1,2 with a 7D to have the same capability in term of DOF. The difference with those 2 lenses alone make the FF solution 1000€ cheaper (1450$ !) and almost 1kg lighter.

How can anyone argue about this advantage ? For people that do not rquire 8fps or pro AF, the advantage is real.
JBL
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JBL
 
It might be an advantage if not for the fact 5D/5DII will not AF accurately/consistenly at such thin DOF unless you want to keep the eyes at the center of the frame for every picture you take. You really need to look at the bigger picture, which is how your results come out, instead of just look at which one has thinnest DOF or best looing pixels on paper.
JeanBaptiste Labelle said:
While I do not swear only by super thin dof portrait, it is cheaper (and lighter) to use a 70-200 f/4 +135 f/2 (part of my setup) with a 5D compared to switching to 70-200 f/2,8 +85mm f/1,2 with a 7D to have the same capability in term of DOF. The difference with those 2 lenses alone make the FF solution 1000€ cheaper (1450$ !) and almost 1kg lighter.

How can anyone argue about this advantage ? For people that do not rquire 8fps or pro AF, the advantage is real.
JBL
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JBL
Click to expand...
 
carlk said:
It might be an advantage if not for the fact 5D/5DII will not AF accurately/consistenly at such thin DOF unless you want to keep the eyes at the center of the frame for every picture you take. You really need to look at the bigger picture, which is how your results come out, instead of just look at which one has thinnest DOF or best looing pixels on paper
carlk said:
JBL
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I am using extensively the 85mm f/1.2 (my father has it) on my 30d (which does not have supposidly a better AF than the 5D) and very honestly, never had much trouble.

I could not say that my keeper rates at f/1.2 for close portrait is 100% but I think that operator has a responsability in it and this is far from being impossible.
Did you try ?
I would not dare supposing that my technique is better than yours...

--
JBL
 
If one cannot appreciate or recognize the differences between a cropped or FF sensor; I rest my case.
(quote by Kevin Barrett)

My thoughts too, Kevin. The 7d performs very well but if you can't see the difference, so be it. To each his own but for many things I prefer the 5d output.

And in the next post there's the same old reference to the dudes at LL telling us that experts can't see the difference between a G10 and P45. Well, I guess we may as well all sell our 7ds, 50ds, 5ds (and anyone out there with P45?), and grab a g10 and start snapping. I can't wait till my next Bride I sees me with that in my hand and a P6000 in my assistants hand. I'll include a link to LL with the proofs if she and the groom are concerned about it.

--
I am as ignorant as ever, and wiser than I've ever been.
 
You used 85L on 30D not 5D? So you have not used 5D either? Everything you said about how good it is are just imagined? I'm not surprised.

I could only use the center AF point when I shoot 85L on 20D. I'm pretty picky on getting critical sharpness. I'd like to know how good focus you got when (and if) you shoot the lens wide open with the focus on any of the outer AF points. Care to show me some examples?

I'm pretty sure you don't have any better techniques than mine.
JeanBaptiste Labelle said:
carlk said:
It might be an advantage if not for the fact 5D/5DII will not AF accurately/consistenly at such thin DOF unless you want to keep the eyes at the center of the frame for every picture you take. You really need to look at the bigger picture, which is how your results come out, instead of just look at which one has thinnest DOF or best looing pixels on paper
JeanBaptiste Labelle said:
JBL
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I am using extensively the 85mm f/1.2 (my father has it) on my 30d (which does not have supposidly a better AF than the 5D) and very honestly, never had much trouble.

I could not say that my keeper rates at f/1.2 for close portrait is 100% but I think that operator has a responsability in it and this is far from being impossible.
Did you try ?
I would not dare supposing that my technique is better than yours...

--
JBL
Click to expand...
 
I never said that I have a 5d as I always claim that the people saying that FF camera are not better than smaller sensor have never tried them.

On the other side, I have extensive experience on the 1DIII (again the one of my father) and everything that I said on bigger sensor (I did not focus on the 5D as you) can easily be seen already on a sensor which is only halfway bigger compared to a FF.

Regarding the smoother transition of bigger sensor, this is really not complicated as you can see it on every photo website gallery of FF picture.

Don't fool yourself, all the people opinion of actual user of bigger sensor (and I consider being one of them with the number of pictures that I took on a 1DIII) is more than imagination.

After, even if crop users do not believe to this IQ difference, the advantage that I described above with 1000€ saving, 1 stop advantage and the saved weight are very big reason to make me willing to upgrade and not a 7D.

I don't see reason to be defensive as the 7D seems a trully great camera but for me, being not a sport or BIF shooter, the benefit of a FF camera are very very appealing.
--
JBL
 
He was making a rather refined response to your claim. No need for your snark.
 
You don't know the history. Every discussion before ended with him asking "have you used a 5D? You'll know if you had". Matter of fact I did and I just find out he never did.
osullis said:
He was making a rather refined response to your claim. No need for your snark.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for posting the 6400 iso is very good I know what you are saying is true
about not looking good at pixel level but printing ok.

first time I saw the grain on med format film scanned to CD I was very discouraged but when I saw first 20x24 print it looked great. That is why I laugh at all the measurbating going around here.
 
It's rather strange that you have such a strong opinion without ever used a full frame camera. 1DIII is not a full frame camera and it does have an AF system as good or better than 7D. Not something you can say for 5DII. Oh yeah this thread is about comparison between 7D and 5DII. It's not that I only want to focus on 5D.

Still I like to see a sample from you to illustrate what do you mean by the smoother transition that small sensor can't have. You never answered my question even after I showed you a sample of mine.
JeanBaptiste Labelle said:
I never said that I have a 5d as I always claim that the people saying that FF camera are not better than smaller sensor have never tried them.

On the other side, I have extensive experience on the 1DIII (again the one of my father) and everything that I said on bigger sensor (I did not focus on the 5D as you) can easily be seen already on a sensor which is only halfway bigger compared to a FF.

Regarding the smoother transition of bigger sensor, this is really not complicated as you can see it on every photo website gallery of FF picture.

Don't fool yourself, all the people opinion of actual user of bigger sensor (and I consider being one of them with the number of pictures that I took on a 1DIII) is more than imagination.

After, even if crop users do not believe to this IQ difference, the advantage that I described above with 1000€ saving, 1 stop advantage and the saved weight are very big reason to make me willing to upgrade and not a 7D.

I don't see reason to be defensive as the 7D seems a trully great camera but for me, being not a sport or BIF shooter, the benefit of a FF camera are very very appealing.
--
JBL
Click to expand...
 
carlk said:
It's rather strange that you have such a strong opinion without ever used a full frame camera. 1DIII is not a full frame camera and it does have an AF system as good or better than 7D. Not something you can say for 5DII. Oh yeah this thread is about comparison between 7D and 5DII. It's not that I only want to focus on 5D.
Click to expand...
Why such aggressive atitude !

I was replying to the comments of people saying that there is no advantage to bigger sensor based on the pictures comparison of this thread.

I understood that you do not believe to the smooher tone gradation and transition between sharp and OOF areas. This is my personnal opinion based on thousand of pictures with a 1D mkIII (which, with it's bigger sensor but not quite big as FF) should exhibit less this "behaviour" and based on all pictures that I have seen in the web.
It seems that I am not alone to feel that.

But, once again, even if you do not believe it after having used for real a 5D, I still consider that the strength of a bigger sensor (with similar resolution) are not visible in the test made in this thread with lens at optimum aperture, low ISO and big DOF.

Do you agree with me (or not ?) that a 5D II offers 1 stop more high ISO, bigger viewfinder, better DOF control for a giving lens ?

Do you agree that, with some of the lens that I have 70-200 f/4 IS, 135 f/2, upgrading to a 5D will be much cheaper and than selling those lens to take 70-200 f/2.8 and 85mm f/1.2 (i love this lens on the 30D but cannot use it all the time as It belongs to my father) with a 7D to have almost identical capability (in term of resolving power, DOF control and FOV) ?

I honestly think that nobody can argue on those advantage which are factual and that reasons above would be enough to stop people saying that a 5D is only a better choice to print enormous size print.

Finally, on the AF of the 5D II which is the same as the original 5D which is derived from the 30D with hidden points, I do not believe that the AF is worse than the one from my 30D and I have never heard of one single user stating so.

Therefore, having no particular problem with the AF for static subject (I do not shoot the 85mm at f/1.2 for sport) and with focus and decompose either. I also did not experience a tremendous difference experience on static subject between the 1DmkIII an the 30D for portrait so, while I admit that 30D AI servo mode is really average (to say the least), for a lot of application, I do not see 5D AF as a deal breaker.

Now, I would prefer that you comment on the points that I raise here instead of avoiding the discussion and asking to see pictures of I don't know what. It would be a much more constructive discussion and beneficial for exterior reader instead on focusing about attacking poster responses (which becomes quite an habbit on this forum sometimes).
 
carlk said:
It's rather strange that you have such a strong opinion without ever used a full frame camera. 1DIII is not a full frame camera and it does have an AF system as good or better than 7D. Not something you can say for 5DII. Oh yeah this thread is about comparison between 7D and 5DII. It's not that I only want to focus on 5D.
Click to expand...
Why such aggressive atitude !

I was replying to the comments of people saying that there is no advantage to bigger sensor based on the pictures comparison of this thread.

I understood that you do not believe to the smooher tone gradation and transition between sharp and OOF areas. This is my personnal opinion based on thousand of pictures with a 1D mkIII (which, with it's bigger sensor but not quite big as FF, should exhibit less this "behaviour") and based on all pictures that I have seen in the web.
It seems that I am not alone to feel that.

But, once again, even if you do not believe it after having used for real a 5D, I still consider that the strength of a bigger sensor (with similar resolution) are not visible in the test made in this thread with lens at optimum aperture, low ISO and big DOF.

Do you agree with me (or not ?) that a 5D II offers 1 stop more high ISO, bigger viewfinder, better DOF control for a giving lens ?

Do you agree that, with some of the lens that I have (70-200 f/4 IS, 135 f/2), upgrading to a 5D will be much cheaper and lighter than selling those lens to take 70-200 f/2.8 and 85mm f/1.2 (i love this lens on the 30D but cannot use it all the time as It belongs to my father) with a 7D to have almost identical capability (in term of resolving power, DOF control and FOV) ?

I honestly think that nobody can argue on those advantage which are factual and that reasons above would be enough to stop people saying that a 5D is only a better choice to print enormous size print.

Finally, on the AF of the 5D II which is the same as the original 5D which is derived from the 30D with hidden points, I do not believe that the AF is worse than the one from my 30D and I have never heard of one single user stating so.

Therefore, having no particular problem with the AF for static subject (I do not shoot the 85mm at f/1.2 for sport) and with focus and decompose either. I also did not experience a tremendous difference experience on static subject between the 1DmkIII an the 30D for portrait so, while I admit that 30D AI servo mode is really average (to say the least), for a lot of application, I do not see 5D AF as a deal breaker.

Now, I would prefer that you comment on the points that I raise here instead of avoiding the discussion and asking to see pictures of I don't know what. It would be a much more constructive discussion and beneficial for exterior reader instead on focusing about attacking poster responses (which becomes quite an habbit on this forum sometimes).
--
JBL
 
dmanthree said:
Mark van Oostveen said:
Thank you very much for the effort,

I personally think the conversion of the 5D (now on the left?) is much better less noisy and nicer sharpnes with DPP.
Click to expand...
Sure looks that way...
dmanthree said:
but If you would spare me the time, why did you go for a ARC conversion?
Click to expand...
Brain freeze. I'm on auto-pilot for my 5D II images and always use ACR. The only reason I'm using DPP is because ACR can't really handle 7D images. BUT...I may convert to DPP given your comments above. I just liked using the Bridge and ACR, I guess.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for the replay,

Same here, I prefer Lightroom for convenience and file handling, but fore good quality, jpeg conversions I alway's use DPP.

I am bot saying that you cant get good conversions with ARC ore Lightroom but it is more work if you have a lot of conversions.

I also like to get exposure and AWB right the first time and DPP knows exactly what the camera was thinking!.

Kind regards Mark
dmanthree said:
-------------------------------------------------
'Hit Refresh if pix do not appear. Flaky ISP at work.'

Click to expand...
--
Time is Critical.
 
George Eastman III said:
A hammer performs better than does a saw.
A Ford F-150 performs better than does a Chevrolet Corvette.
Hiking boots performs better than do ballet slippers.
A Canon 5D Mark II performs better than does a Canon 7D.

All of the above statements are true. All of the above statements are false.

Cameras are tools. Both the 5D Mark II and the 7D are extremely well suited to some tasks, less well suited to others.

Give me access to both cameras and a sack full of lenses and:
If I'm shooting landscapes, I'll use the 5D.
If I'm shooting portraits, I'll use the 5D.
If I'm shooting birds in flight I'll use the 7D.

If I'm shooting a boxing match, a football game, or a BMX event, I'll use the 7D.
If I'm shooting small animals at a distance, I'll use the 7D.
If I'm shooting elephants from 5 feet away, I'll use the 5D.
If I'm doing product shots, I'll use the 5D.
If I'm shooting video, ... I'll need more details on the shoot.

The choice of a camera always involves trade-offs. Both the 5D Mark II and the 7D are outstanding, state of the art cameras. But they were designed to excel at different tasks. One cannot say one is better than the other. One can only say one is better at a particular task than is the other.
Click to expand...
It sure would be nice if you guys could figure out the difference between a 5D and a 5D Mark II. They're not the same camera.
 
Your comparison shots are basically worthless. First you used different converters, different lenses, who knows which f-stop, and what the heck is "minimal" sharpening? Now you're using the same converter but aren't stating the settings for either camera or any converter settings, lenses, etc.

Even in your comparison the 5D2 shows a much better image. Try some foliage at a greater distance or some other subject that has more details than a house, like feathers, fur, etc. and next time state every setting, lens, distance, focus point, converter, converter settings, and everything else that matters.
 
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