New Canon 11 MP DSLR

David SL · Sep 12, 2002

Tom,

Tom Maxwell said:
Interesting speculation going on. I don't see anything about
"about to release." Only an announcement in the next few weeks.
When will first delivery be?? Who knows, we will have to wait and
see.

Agreed.

Tom Maxwell said:
1) Will the 35mm format users (PJ, Wedding, Sports) really need
and/or want the larger file sizes? In my opinion, probably not.

Maybe, having more crop-ability is always good for anyone in those catagories if the need arises. As far as wedding is concerned it's not uncommon for people to want 10 x 14 size prints, at 11mp such an image would print at just under 300dpi yielding a very sharp "medium format class" image. For group shots at weddings the sharper the better and more resolution in the original image helps that out a great deal.

Tom Maxwell said:
2) Will those who need the the higher resolution (commercial,
landscape, maybe portrait) opt for 35mm format over the medium
format backs?

Medium Backs are still far more expensive than existing DSLR's, I do think that around 11 -12 mp is where you'll see saturation of greater and greater mp's as far as consumer cameras are concerned. (You may not see any more mp's in consumer cameras, but highier mp's will stay in the "pro" level of camera.) There is little need for "joe nextdoor" to buy a camera that takes 11-12mp class images if he's not going to routinely print at 10 x 14 size or larger or crop images for smaller prints. Today's best 3mp cameras satisfy the need for film quality 8 x 10's already IMO.

Tom Maxwell said:
3) Will many be willing to upgrade the computer power/memory/disk
space necessary to deal with these larger files? After dealing
with the Kodak back for a little bit I can attest to the fact that
one can't get enough power/memory/disk space when dealing with
these files. I think a dual processor 2+ GHZ, 2 gig mem, 100's of
mbytes of disk space, will be wanted when dealing with these files.

Here I disagree, many pc's shipping today arrive with hard drives of 30 gig or better (huge) as well as including CDRW drives (750mb/disk), DVD R disks can give you 4.7Gb per disk (and they are selling for 2.50 a pop now), system RAM is routinely shipping with half a gig (512mb) installed on mother boards that can accept max. memory over a gig or two, additionally memory bandwidth (speed of communication between the proc. and the front side bus http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/frontside_bus.html is increasing along with the speed of the memory itself speeding up processing and data access further)..memory space is not a problem...memory has outpaced demand for several years now so that won't be a problem in the near future (even if a 14mp camera comes out IMO) As for processor power, floating point performance is most important (the processing done for noteable photoshop functions such as Guassian blur, Lighting Effects and USM) today's 1ghz class chips can chop through 6mp files like butter. ( I know I have a 1.6ghz P4 Mobile that usually runs around 1.2Ghz but quickly processes 6mp images using floating point intensive functions I couldn't imagine what a 2000+ Athlon XP would do to them!

Tom Maxwell said:
4) Will it drive current prices down? This is exciting and I think
it will have to. The medium format backs are going to become much
more affordable. The current DSLR market will become excitingly
affordable.

Agreed, good times are ahead better quality for cheaper prices we (the consumer) are about to win big.

Tom Maxwell said:
The question is how much is enough. I am sure most will always
want to have MORE, but I am not sure that when people sit down and
look at it from a realistic standpoint that they will need that
much more.

My guess again is stability for "consumer"[as in $6000 and less to purchase] cams around 12mp (as I mentioned before this is just enough for a 300dpi class 10 x 14) above that, cameras will be labelled for pro "high res" use or will simply be digital backs (it might be cheaper to just provide those than have to R&D new medium format class DSLRS) but who knows we may get a few technological revolutions on the way that make it so cheap to scale that camera manufacturers continue to sell "more mp" to consumers ..Intel sure knows that the myth of the advantages of more "hz" in it's chips has been a great marketing tool to help maintain it's dominance on processors over nearest competitor AMD, the camera companies marketing teams may use (in fact many already have been) a similar trick.

Tom Maxwell said:
Of course this is all speculation. We will have to see when the
expected release date will be, I am guessing next spring at the
earliest, and how the other manufacturers respond to it.

Don't get too excited just yet.

Agreed.

--

Michael T. Jones · Sep 12, 2002

Corvus Corax wrote:
:

Corvus Corax said:
... Intel is rolling out
3.6GHZ Pentium IV's this year, as http://www.tomshardware.com (One of the
best testers in the business) already has a few to play with. ;0)

Indeed. At least one poster in this forum tests a Hyperthreaded 3.8 GHz Intel early access program system using Nikon Capture and Bibble. (Works just fine ;-)

--
Michael T. Jones
(equipment in profile)

Jim K53618 · Sep 12, 2002

VJ said:
Jim K said:

AND there is still
a possibility of another DSLR priced around $1000. No not the 300V,
that is a film SLR, but there is a possibility of a third camera
which was confused as the 300V.

Click to expand...

Could someone elaborate (any proof of this rumour ?) on this ? It
would seem very suprising to me if any company would now release a
DSLR at that price... (this might put a lot of potential D60 buyers
off)

Jörg

I don't think any one can provide proof yet, and I admit it is still very much rumor status. It is based on a error pcmag made in describing a new SLR the 300V for $1000 and comenting it would be the lowest price DSLR! As it turns out the 300V is a film SLR to be released, but price is still not certain of it. There is speculation that there is indeed a third canon camera and pcmag simply got the information scrambled! At this point Canon is only commenting on what has been leaked about the 1Ds, and confirmed a 300V, and added nothing more to their comments. We will have to wait 2 weeks to find out for sure.

While I do not not for sure, and admit this is speculation on my part, it would definitely be to Canon's best interest and advantage to introduce a new verry affordable DSLR with the D30 sensor. Sort of a scaled down D30? It wouldn't take any sales away from the D30 since it's discontinued. It would sell like crazy at $1000! It would be a major blow to all manufacturers offering consumer cameras for $1000! Now you could buy a DSLR for $1000! This would shake up the whole market!!! And Canon would no doubt be enlisting many new users that would of course be buying canon lenses and possibly upgrading to a higher end DSLR at some point. This is something Canon would do. It is very Canon-Like! But of course who knows for sure. One thing is certain, the first company to introduce a DSLR for $1000 will change the whole course of this market! It would be a death blow to the OlyDak!

One can only hope at this time : )

Jim K

--
Every Camera Has Short Comings,
some camera's fall short of coming!
http://digitalphotonews.ws

Jim K53618 · Sep 12, 2002

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not making any final judgements until Phil tests it out, I did say that before too. All I was implying is that this is verry exciting news, and it is NOT a rumor any more but a fact. Since I already have a lot of canon and nikon lenses, switching for me would be as easy. I would hang on to my D1H, and sell the D1X if it turns out the 1Ds is successful. Otherwise, I will keep waiting.

Thanks for your input!
Jim K
--
Every Camera Has Short Comings,
some camera's fall short of coming!
http://digitalphotonews.ws

VJ · Sep 12, 2002

Jim K said:
I don't think any one can provide proof yet, and I admit it is
still very much rumor status. It is based on a error pcmag made in
describing a new SLR the 300V for $1000 and comenting it would be
the lowest price DSLR! As it turns out the 300V is a film SLR to be
released, but price is still not certain of it. There is
speculation that there is indeed a third canon camera and pcmag
simply got the information scrambled! At this point Canon is only
commenting on what has been leaked about the 1Ds, and confirmed a
300V, and added nothing more to their comments. We will have to
wait 2 weeks to find out for sure.

Yes, that is true... (thanks for sharing the history behind the rumour)

Isn't it possible that the third mysterious camera is the G3 (successor of the G2) ?

Jim K53618 said:
While I do not not for sure, and admit this is speculation on my
part, it would definitely be to Canon's best interest and advantage
to introduce a new verry affordable DSLR with the D30 sensor. Sort
of a scaled down D30?

(just shortend the quote

)

If it were true, it would mean a huge blow to Olympus (and a lot of other manufacturers. But wouldn't it also start to compete with their own products (e.g. the G2, as a lot of people see this as a very good pro-amateur (hope this makes sense) camera without having to pay high DSLR prices (and still having a lot of freedom wrt settings)) ?

Depending on the abilities of the camera (and if I were a recent D60 buyer) I might feel somewhat cheated (suppose I just made the jump as an amateur, only to find out that having waited a couple of months would have allowed me to start with a far smaller jump). (I'm actually in the jump-situation but with Nikon

- as I had reusable Nikon gear)

Personally, I doubt it (considering the price of film-SLR and the price of digital components, I don't think it is feasable to manufacture a DSLR at that price. My guess is that is the G3.

Jörg

Cribbage · Sep 12, 2002

Can anyone decipher the technobabble to reach any conclusions about the dynamic range potential of this puppy?

Thomas Sapiano said:
http://www.dpreview.com/misc/rdr.asp?url=http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/digital/ccd/kai11000.pdf

There was some speculation that Canon might get this puppy, however
since the Canon apparently has a CMOS sensor this part will likely
be showing up in an 11MP F-Mount camera. Weather it is a Nikon D2X
or a Kodak DCS 811 is immaterial, but from the specs of this sensor
seem to match up well with the Canon - just that it uses an ILT CCD
rather than a CMOS chip.

Ideally, I'd love to see the above combonation:

-Nikon release a D2 offering 6MP w/8fps with better than D1H noise
profile and a 256+ MB buffer ( 30 images), and a new updated
chassis with new AF system, etc. Either select a full frame sensor
or stay with 1.5FLM (if the later introduce dedicated lenses) but
decide at this point

-Kodak to release a DCS 811 (FF 11MP 3fps, etc.) with the above
sensor and developed in partnership between them and Nikon (ie not
just Nikon selling Kodak bodies as before). Avoid the redundancy
that the D1X and 760 had, and take advantage of Kodak's experience
in the studio environment.

But that's just me

J. Roberts said:

Any thoughts or reactions from the Nikon crowd, to the stunning
news that Canon is about to release an 11MP DSLR?

J. Roberts

Click to expand...

--

Ger Bee · Sep 12, 2002

... if they power it via a powerful Li-Ion battery or better - I'm very, very interested. I am already impressed with the speed and response of the Canon Eos 1-D so I’m already slightly peaked.

Jim K53618 · Sep 12, 2002

I forgot to point out that a new DSLR with a 3MP sensor, perhaps the same as the D30 was using would NOT take sales away from the D60 which is a 6+MP. Also I'm sure there would be other limitations to make the distinction between this and that D60 so not to take away sales from the D60. The idea would be to make it good enough to attract newbies over to DSLRs who would normally only be buying a consumer camera for about $1000. Sound like plan?

--
Every Camera Has Short Comings,
some camera's fall short of coming!
http://digitalphotonews.ws

Jim K53618 · Sep 12, 2002

VJ said:
Isn't it possible that the third mysterious camera is the G3
(successor of the G2) ?

It's possible, but the reference to it being the "cheapest DSLR"

also makes it possible they are talking about another camera, or of course they may not know what their talking about at all ; )

VJ said:
Personally, I doubt it (considering the price of film-SLR and the
price of digital components, I don't think it is feasable to
manufacture a DSLR at that price. My guess is that is the G3.

I admit it's a stretch of the imagination. But all the elements are here.

As for the G3, unless it gets a EVF added, I don't see it making any significant impact in the market. It would be right up there with the D7Hi (yawn). At some point, somebody has to introduce a budget DSLR at the novice level for around $1000. This will be the critical and possible fatal blow for 35mm film bodies. We know it will eventually happen right? It might as well come from Canon who is famous and well known for introducing new technology at consumer levels at low prices. This has Canon written all over it. If it doesn't happen this time, I'll bet when it does, it will be from Canon : )

Regards!

VJ said:
Jörg

--
Every Camera Has Short Comings,
some camera's fall short of coming!
http://digitalphotonews.ws

David SL · Sep 12, 2002

Cribbage said:
Can anyone decipher the technobabble to reach any conclusions about
the dynamic range potential of this puppy?

The specifications lists a "dynamic range" line in decibels of 70db. I don't know the "dynamic range" readings of any other competing chip so I'd be making comparisons in a vacuum but it's reasonable to guess that given the increased photosite area (9micros^2) versus the chips used in 6mp cameras available today (eg. D100 has 7.8micros^2 area) that the DR will * likely* be highier as well and more importantly provide better high ISO performance than those chip-camera systems. Anyone know the "dynamic range" reading for current chips on the market?? (ie. D100 sensor, D60 sensor, S2..etc.)

Regards,
--

David SL · Sep 12, 2002

David SL said:
Cribbage said:

Can anyone decipher the technobabble to reach any conclusions about
the dynamic range potential of this puppy?

Click to expand...

The specifications lists a "dynamic range" line in decibels of
70db. I don't know the "dynamic range" readings of any other
competing chip so I'd be making comparisons in a vacuum but it's
reasonable to guess that given the increased photosite area
(9micros^2) versus the chips used in 6mp cameras available today
(eg. D100 has 7.8micros^2 area) that the DR will * likely* be
highier as well and more importantly provide better high ISO
performance than those chip-camera systems. Anyone know the
"dynamic range" reading for current chips on the market?? (ie. D100
sensor, D60 sensor, S2..etc.)

Regards,
--

Additionaly, the photosite diagram on page 5 shows that half the "pixel" area of 9micros^2 is taken up by non-photosensitive area, how this compares to existing chips must be taken into account to make even the "guess" that I did before ( I wrongly assumed 9micros was the photosensitive area portion of the photisite), so we only have the "dynamic range" measure specified to say anything about DR.

Sigh..

--

Tom Maxwell · Sep 12, 2002

" Medium Backs are still far more expensive than existing DSLR's"

Yes they are, but the prices should fall like a rock if a $5K 11 mpix DSLR comes out. I think they will have to.

"Here I disagree, many pc's shipping today..."

Agreed, "Shipping today" is the optimal word. Doesn't mean that people have these machines on their desks today. I am running a 1.6 GHZ P4 with 512mbyte and 2x80 gig drives. I am not happy with it when working on D1X files. I agree that the new powerhouses are awesome and the greatest values ever, but they still involves another investment of $2.5K-$5K. If I were working with 11 mpix raw files or Kodak back files routinely, I would have to (OK want to badly) upgrade.

Regards!

Peter G · Sep 12, 2002

The press release is legit, but the 300v is a film camera.

This all started because PCmag made a mistake. If you go to the site, they have an update stating the mistake, the 300V is a film camera. Knowling little about cameras, they assumed it was digital.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C4149%2C528206%2C00.asp

Update: The 300V SLR camera mentioned below was described in our original posting of this story as a "digital" camera. It is not. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

Here is 300V info:

http://www.eos-magazine.com/News_35_EOS300V.html

There is no $1000 SLR. Even the olydak will probably be double that price.

VJ said:
Jim K said:

AND there is still
a possibility of another DSLR priced around $1000. No not the 300V,
that is a film SLR, but there is a possibility of a third camera
which was confused as the 300V.

Click to expand...

Could someone elaborate (any proof of this rumour ?) on this ? It
would seem very suprising to me if any company would now release a
DSLR at that price... (this might put a lot of potential D60 buyers
off)

Jörg

VJ · Sep 12, 2002

Jim K said:
At some point, somebody has to introduce a
budget DSLR at the novice level for around $1000. This will be the
critical and possible fatal blow for 35mm film bodies. We know it
will eventually happen right?

Yep, no doubt about (but now is too soon IMO

)...

Jim K53618 said:
It might as well come from Canon who
is famous and well known for introducing new technology at consumer
levels at low prices. This has Canon written all over it. If it
doesn't happen this time, I'll bet when it does, it will be from
Canon : )

Did I get lost in the Canon-forum ? (just kidding !)

I agree with you: it will be a well known company, with experience. And Canon was the first to release an "affordable" DSLR, so it is a likely candidate.

Jörg

VJ · Sep 12, 2002

Jim K said:
I forgot to point out that a new DSLR with a 3MP sensor, perhaps
the same as the D30 was using would NOT take sales away from the
D60 which is a 6+MP. Also I'm sure there would be other limitations
to make the distinction between this and that D60 so not to take
away sales from the D60. The idea would be to make it good enough
to attract newbies over to DSLRs who would normally only be buying
a consumer camera for about $1000. Sound like plan?

Well, I doubt the production for the 3MP sensor is still in use; I'd say it was converted to produce 6+MP sensors (setting up these kinds of factories is too expesive to just use them for "cheap" components). It just isn't done; just look at laptops: it should be possible to produce a PII-laptop very cheap (and a PII suffices for most people: office, internet, ...), but they are simply no longer available; it is all mobile PIII (only higher speeds !) and PIV now...

I also think a lot of people will still be searching for megapixels, in which aspect a camera like that would miss a lot of potential buyers. And another lot of people is looking for small camera's (my friends think I'm crazy walking around with a camera as big as the D100 - which I don't think is that big...)

Well, it seems (also from the other post) that we both have different views of the future...

Time will tell.........

Jörg

Horst Kretzschmar · Sep 12, 2002

New Canon EOS 1Ds with 11,1 Mpix in addition to the 1D. The 1D will be the high speed (8pics/s) camera for traditional press work with 4,5 Mpix, the 1 Ds with its very improved resolution will be slower (3-4 pics/s). Both will be similar sturdy built with a magnesium body, high performance AF etc.

There will be no lolevel DSLR, one magazin had mixed some news, the 1000 $ EOS will be a film camera.

Canon intends to push Nikon from the market with its D1X (5,4 Mpix) and D1H (3,3 Mpix). Regular price for the 1D is 6700 €, estimated price for the 1Ds may be 6800 €. If Canon will be very agressive, they perhaps may lower the price to the level of the both Nikons.

--
H. Kretzschmar, Germany

Peter G · Sep 12, 2002

Peter Guidry said:
This all started because PCmag made a mistake. If you go to the
site, they have an update stating the mistake, the 300V is a film
camera. Knowling little about cameras, they assumed it was digital.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C4149%2C528206%2C00.asp

Update: The 300V SLR camera mentioned below was described in our
original posting of this story as a "digital" camera. It is not. We
apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

Here is 300V info:

http://www.eos-magazine.com/News_35_EOS300V.html

There is no $1000 SLR. Even the olydak will probably be double that
price.

VJ said:

Jim K said:

AND there is still
a possibility of another DSLR priced around $1000. No not the 300V,
that is a film SLR, but there is a possibility of a third camera
which was confused as the 300V.

Click to expand...

Could someone elaborate (any proof of this rumour ?) on this ? It
would seem very suprising to me if any company would now release a
DSLR at that price... (this might put a lot of potential D60 buyers
off)

Jörg

Click to expand...

Ashton Lee · Sep 12, 2002

What I would do, as a marketer, would be to introduce a digital APS-sized SLR, using the sensor from the D60.

That way you would have a true consumer type camera... smaller than a full sized SLR, and getting wide angle performance by means of smaller lenses which cover just the APS image area.

I don't believe that, in the fullness of time, 35mm sized sensors will be necessary anyway... and certainly not for amature use. The picture from a CP5700 (which uses a very small sensor) is plenty good... the issue is lens choice, focus speed, etc. And the performance of smaller sensors will just get better and better.

The only real arguements for larger sensors are 1) Compatability with existing lenses, mostly relevant to WA's and 2) the ability to reduce depth of focus for creative effect (note an 8x10 has much shallower DOF than 35mm). Neither of these are prime considerations for a consumer market. And so long as the camera accepted existing lenses, number 1 would not be a big issue anyway.

I do believe that in time digitals will be cheaper than film cameras... because they have no (actually few) moving parts. Ultimately machines that have no moving parts become as cheap as digital watches.

VJ said:
Jim K said:

AND there is still
a possibility of another DSLR priced around $1000. No not the 300V,
that is a film SLR, but there is a possibility of a third camera
which was confused as the 300V.

Click to expand...

Could someone elaborate (any proof of this rumour ?) on this ? It
would seem very suprising to me if any company would now release a
DSLR at that price... (this might put a lot of potential D60 buyers
off)

Jörg

Negative287 · Sep 12, 2002

Simon,

I don't mind buying from Canada as my wife and her whole family are from there... However, I got one that came in on a preorder yesterday but I was calling around for a few days trying to find them and even made several trips to a few out of the way shops. I settled on the D100 and I'm not disappointed with it at all; it is very fast, lightweight and comparable to the other two in terms of image quality... I personally would liked to have had the chance to compare the D60 to the D100 but I am pleased with my choice overall.

As for that camera (1Ds) it is going to be a bit out of my price range and the cheap DSLR will probably not have as many features as the current low priced DSLRs and will more then likely be slower. Thanks for the help though, I appreciate it!

--

http://www.pbase.com/elterrible

Simon Dai said:
Pete, if you don;t mind buying from Canada, there's plenty of
D100/D60s here in Toronto, all in stock.

With regards to the 1Ds, I know of someone who played with the
prototype last week, according to him, the output is fairly
comparable to the Phas One digital back. File size is not a issue,
RAW is around 12MB with highest resolution TIFF around 34MB (I
already have a dual 2.4GHz Dell Precision 530 with 15000rpm scsi
drives, 2GB RAM ... ). It'll be available for sale in November.

Yes, it's for advertising, landscape shooters and never a
competitor to the original 1D.

Simon

Bob Graham rvg · Sep 12, 2002

Pete Perry said:
a 12 MP with dual CCD's?

Some rumor idiot said that about dual sensors, the D1s is a single 11.1 mp sensor.

New Canon 11 MP DSLR

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Veteran Member

Member

Negative287

Guest

Senior Member

Keyboard shortcuts