Underwhelming 7D review from Dpreview

caspianm · Nov 13, 2009

nothsafoto said:
Toms list has some valid points on it. However, there are a lot of mistakes too. Anyone who only reads Toms list will get an incorrect idea about the 7D.

The D300s (and D300) are superb cameras that have a lot of very fine features, but so does the 7D. Please don't be getting so insecure over wht Canon is or isn't doing and go out and enjoy shooting with your Nikons.

There is a serious amount of insecuity on the Canon forum about Nikon products too. Not worth it unless you are considering swapping brands.

Robbie
--
Canon Can...Can you??

For the most part his observations are right on the money.

Now the question is whether or not one cares to know and/or need those features. Even if one cares less for some of missing feature in 7D vs D300 ought to be carefull and buy the camera with open eyes rather than assuming a BS list that has no bearing in real practical situation.

Nikond D300 represent a highly refined rich featured cam but unfortunately for some the 18mp of 7D is the turning point.

Michael Anburaj · Nov 13, 2009

sandy b said:
on everything you point it at, in any mode. Don't get me wrong, I am not attacking the 7D, I think that Dp review was spot on from the 15 min I got to play with it. Great camera.

But looking at the samples and the features, no better, but no worse, than the d300s.

This can't be true. Even when comparing 12Mp against 10Mp (with the best glasses), slightly higher resolving power can be seen. 18Mp should have more difference in this respect; someone did a demo on the canon forum. I am not saying 12mp is not enough or bad or not going to cut it - a lot of folks on the Nikon forum try to under pay the importance of resolution – It’s not working

sandy b said:
But there have been an awful lot of EXPERIENCED unhappy users over there. I think its some sloppy QC, the returned cameras seem fine.

Yes, Canon may be little sloppier on the QC compared to Nikon. But for the most part, more newbies jumping into Canon without prior DSLR knowledge attributes to this more than anything else - due to Canons more attractive prices.

Cheers,
-Mike.

caspianm · Nov 13, 2009

Michael Anburaj said:
sandy b said:

on everything you point it at, in any mode. Don't get me wrong, I am not attacking the 7D, I think that Dp review was spot on from the 15 min I got to play with it. Great camera.

But looking at the samples and the features, no better, but no worse, than the d300s.

Click to expand...

This can't be true. Even when comparing 12Mp against 10Mp (with the best glasses), slightly higher resolving power can be seen. 18Mp should have more difference in this respect; someone did a demo on the canon forum. I am not saying 12mp is not enough or bad or not going to cut it - a lot of folks on the Nikon forum try to under pay the importance of resolution – It’s not working

Michael Anburaj said:

But there have been an awful lot of EXPERIENCED unhappy users over there. I think its some sloppy QC, the returned cameras seem fine.

Click to expand...

Yes, Canon may be little sloppier on the QC compared to Nikon. But for the most part, more newbies jumping into Canon without prior DSLR knowledge attributes to this more than anything else - due to Canons more attractive prices.

Cheers,
-Mike.

7d produced 2500 LPH and D300s 2300 LPH(from DP review).
Good luck seeing it in practical everyday photos.

NickST · Nov 13, 2009

your gear on ebay. Also I feel sorry for you with all your Panasonic and Oly gear. Please make sure you include "free shipping" in your auctions.

By the way, not all cameras have the LCD on the top since you are wondering about the D40. Only serious cameras do. But, you wouldn't know the difference.
--
--Nick.

armandino · Nov 13, 2009

I consider the 7D almost strictly a sport camera and most likely not a all rounded camera like the D300. Canon leaves to users the choice of a different body (5D MKII) otherwise. I feel that strictly on the sports the 7D rivals with the D300.

-Higher resolution means more cropping, larger prints (I have printed a few 20x30 and they look wild, no comparison with my 8MP 1D Mk II). The pictures can easily take even larger prints.

-Faster shooting with deeper buffer

-Tilt sensor linked to focus point

-Focus performance I am not sure if better, but it is excellent and not a concern. Superior to the 45 point ID MK II.

As a sport photographer I takes these over the "rich feature camera". If you are not strictly a sport photographer , and you do not blow big prints, then you are probably right about preferring the D300.

On a side note, I never bothered with video, but this 1080p is getting me hooked up...

Finally I'd like to state that if the 7D is as good as D300 or marginally better is good for the Nikonians as I am sure Nikon will come down soon with something else and here you go, beauty of competition.

Michael Anburaj · Nov 13, 2009

caspianm said:
7d produced 2500 LPH and D300s 2300 LPH(from DP review).
Good luck seeing it in practical everyday photos.

From DPR:

Nikon D3X Horizontal LPH 2700
Nikon D3 Horizontal LPH 2200

Canon EOS 7D Horizontal LPH 2500
Nikon D300s Horizontal LPH 2200

So, I guess you would also claim there is not much difference between the D3x & D3 ahh! & Nikon just made it for what?

Cheers,
-Mike.

AndrewPL · Nov 13, 2009

sandy b said:
From the review:

"All in all the D300S and EOS 7D deliver at higher ISOs the cleanest image and the best balance between noise reduction and loss of luminance. Which one you prefer is a matter of personal taste."

It's a matter of personal taste, yes I agree with you. I like Canon as a system, you like Nikon, good for you, but the advantages of the 7D that would BENEFIT photographers are real over the D300s, better image quality, lower noise, movie mode, faster frame rate, better AF and together with the impressive Canon telephoto lens lineup, the Canon 7D is a dream wildlife and sport camera for amateurs and low budget pros.

sandy b said:
And the test shots show that. In the raw shot their is not 2 cents difference. Even the resolution is comparable considering the diff in MP.

Still better in noise and more details capture, Nikon has hit dead-ends with its 12M Sony sensors, all they did with the D300s was to upgrade its jpg engine, more aggressive in-cam NR, and crippled movie mode, would you buy a D300s if you had a D300? I don't think so

sandy b said:
The D300 is a classic. Whether the canon is remains to be seen. Personally, once Canon gets it sorted out, I figure it will be a canon classic too. But it in no way is better than the D300s. Or vice versa. Oh, BTW, those number of units sold you claimed where Japan only were world wide figures.

Yes, the D300 that forced Canon to release the best APS-C camera, it's a new benchmark that Nikon is going to have to work very hard to overcome but their destiny depends on Sony sensors, they can only do so much

ink0gnito · Nov 13, 2009

some of the points are valid but most are either incorrect, irrelevant or half-true (e.g., 19 AF points vs. 51; well, D300 has 15 cross-type sensors whereas Canon has 19, which is more important than 98475698347698347589 vertical line sensors)

caspianm · Nov 13, 2009

Michael Anburaj said:
Michael Anburaj said:

7d produced 2500 LPH and D300s 2300 LPH(from DP review).
Good luck seeing it in practical everyday photos.

Click to expand...

From DPR:

Nikon D3X Horizontal LPH 2700
Nikon D3 Horizontal LPH 2200

Canon EOS 7D Horizontal LPH 2500
Nikon D300s Horizontal LPH 2200

So, I guess you would also claim there is not much difference between the D3x & D3 ahh! & Nikon just made it for what?

Cheers,
-Mike.

When did I calim there is no difference? Literally there are but good luck seeing it.
D2x and D3 are 500 LPH apart not 200. 300s is 2250 and 2300 and 7D is 2500.

But that is in low ISO and given the 7D low iso is not as good as D300 I say forget the rez difference for all except an edge in hi iso.

AndrewPL · Nov 13, 2009

You got caught lying about your "test" regarding the Canon 7D soft images, I'm still waiting for your "test"

kevin peters said:
As Tom pointed out you make up things, unbelievable!! You must either be
a) psychotic

Ouch, whatever you say Nikon boy, you should go seek helps if you still blindly follow him

Kevin Peters said:
b) have an extreme learning disability

From a guy you can't read and comprehend, it must be true

Kevin Peters said:
c) please just do us ALL a favor and go back to your little 7D forum, you add nothing here whatsoever!

Kevin Peters said:
Good Day Canon BOY!
lol

"LOL" are you 15 years old?

Kevin Peters said:
AndrewPL said:

Everything posted on the internet must be true, your level of ignorance just amazes me.

kevin peters said:

CANON FANBOY--

I am finding many of reviews that are quiet negative on the 7D, maybe you should return yours?? I think you are a want to be NIKON BOY!
Look
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=870853

Click to expand...

Quote from the review

"Canon says it consulted with 5000 photographers for the design of the EOS 7D, its most feature packed DSLR camera yet. David Kilpatrick finds out if they got it right"

The review was written by David Kilpatrick, just incase you don't know this person is, he's the biggest Sony fanboy in the world, while his knowledge about photography is amazing but his bias againsts everything not Sony is well known in the Sony DSLR forum before he got banned, but ofcourse you don't know that, because the Nikon religion brainwashed you to believe otherwise.

Kevin Peters said:

and another!
http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-canon-7d/
and another! This time focus problems

Click to expand...

Wow, if I can get a penny for every so call "review" I would be very rich by now, for every negative review about the 7D, I can find 5 positive reviews about the 7D beating the D300s hand down, but since we at the DPR, the most influential website in the world about digital photography, why don't we take a look at their SCIENTIFIC TESTS, shall we?

Noise test
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/page15.asp

To see your beloved D300s blows away as ISO goes higher is heart breaking i know, but again since you're so blind following Nikon God I thought I would let you know
Image test
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/page22.asp

Once again, it looks like Nikon cranked up its NR to make Nikon extremist like you to beleive that less noise is better, but it's actually not, the D300s exhibits more noise and A LOT LESS details. A 18M sensor that kills the 12M sensor in both noise and details is an amazing accomplishment if you ask me

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/page21.asp

Kevin Peters said:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=33495689
and apparently the video has problems too!

Click to expand...

What problem? Reading is not your strong suite is it? My 6 year old boy can read and comprehend better than that, but if that was true, the 7D video is still amazingly better than the mee-too D300s crippled video features

Kevin Peters said:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=33651188

I dont see review like this on a D300s

Click to expand...

Ofcourse you don't because there's a lot more 7D users than D300s, who would buy a D300s when you can get the 7D cheaper as a system? you have to pay more than 2 grants to get to the same fps with the 7D, with crippled video features...etc and by the way, Canon users are not like Nikon users, we don't worship a camera company, we're more critical with our cameras and we don't afraid to voice our dissatisfaction with a company let alone a camera

Click to expand...

armandino · Nov 13, 2009

Tom, it sounds like Canon should fire all its engineers and hire you...

You can brag that your BMW is impeccable, and it excels in anything. Childish, but fair enough. Now if you walk by a Ferrari Enzo and state that it is a piece of crap because it does not have a radio.... well you start sounding incompetent or blinded to your own vision.

Canon cameras have always been more specific oriented, while Nikon cameras are more full featured, all purpose. This means that Canons often (and unfortunately) lacks some very useful features, however they are really good at what they are designed for, and for that they have often proven in the past to be as good or superior to the Nikon counterparts. I bet that specifically for sport, when coming down business with no fuzz, the 7D takes the D300 out, and to some extent the D3 too. As it does to some extent take the 1D MK III out too. By now I must have shot over 20,000 pics with it and it still amazes me with its speed and amount of resolution. At each event I spend less the 1/2 of the time I used to with my old 1D Mk II. I honestly think at this forum people are trying to put a lid on the additional resolution. If any here shoot sports professionally, will know how every extra pixel counts for cropping power, and how this is more important than a bit less noise (here comparing to the D3, the D300 does not deliver better noise as the charts and sample pics show).

I am simply stating that this camera is extremely good at what is designed for, and you should not underestimate that. If you prefer a more all rounded body (...mmm...maybe the D300 is more like a super hot lady... I like that!) the D300 is more likely superior. You like one BMW, I prefer a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce (my other body is a 1Ds).

Iliah Borg · Nov 13, 2009

ink0gnito said:
some of the points are valid but most are either incorrect,

LOL. You are missing the point too.

--
http://www.libraw.org/

bionet · Nov 13, 2009

gotak said:
Lots of time it feels like Nikon is microsoft (feature after feature that you

might never need) while Canon is Linux (a geek should do everything by > hand). But end of the day both can do the same job just in different
hands some ***** and some loves it.

If any company is MS-like, it's Canon. Lots of useless gimmicks, but the important functions are missing (like maximum/minimum shutter speed/aperture for semi-auto modes).

And Unix/Linux is actually more convenient for the experienced user. I've been using it for the past 11 years because I'm too lazy for Windows.

Anyway, I like the image quality of my 5D2, but the usability of Canon's cameras really sucks.

BackInTheGame · Nov 13, 2009

I'm sure the 7D is a good camera. I think leaning on the crop crutch is a bad proposition, but most of us do to some extent. Guys who earn a living with it have the right glass.

But you have to remember that Tom is talking to Nikon owners who might be having an Acquisition Syndrome attack, and if those features didn't matter, some might shoot something else. I'm as guilty as anyone about NAS, but when I wanted to shoot at indoor gym events and high school pictures, I didn't leave the D300. I added a D700. I wouldn't consider anything but Nikon, although I'm sure others might.

So Tom is not really slamming Canon so much as pointing out to us what we would miss with a 7D. That's not to say the 7D doesn't have features not available in the D300, and in those respects it might even be more desirable. But it doesn't have the features we are accustomed to.

Nikon owners who don't care about those features know who they are, and they might consider a 7D just for the pixels. I think most of us would not. If Nikon produces a higher mega pixel camera with the features Nikon users are accustomed to, many will be all over it.

The Davinator · Nov 13, 2009

Put both on a tripod, mount excellent glass on each, photograph a landscape at iso 100, and print to 20x30. Compare.

See....wasn't that easy?

Cultured Vulture · Nov 13, 2009

TOF guy said:
Tom said:

Only 19 selectable AF points, not 51

Click to expand...

But all 19 are cross-sensors

TOF guy said:

Cannot make auto-exposure lock "sticky" (AE-L Hold)

Click to expand...

Of course you can

TOF guy said:

No AF assist light separate from popup flash

Click to expand...

The D300 AF assist light is of no use.

There are probably many features which are better on the 7D and do not make the main list. Overall, Canon is giving the D300s some serious competition, and it is cheaper.
--
Thierry

Actually at B&H the D300s is about $120.00 cheaper. But yes, the D300 finally has some competition from Canon. Took them long enough. When you think of it, Canon users should be grateful to Nikon. Without the D300, you would still only have the 40D for your top APS C camera. Probably still looking forward to the 50D. I always have thanked Canon for the 20D, it made Nikon up their game.

--
Respond to rudeness with civility, it really annoys them.

Regards,

JR

dennis tennis · Nov 13, 2009

Uh, I do have Niikon DSLRs and they do have those nice little top LCD and they do tell me how many pictures I have left. I just don't find them useful but you do so that is great. FYI, my ritual is to take my card off camera, download them, immediately put them back to the camera, format them. So, you see I don't really need to know how many pictures I have left. Everytime I pick up any camera, the card is format and ready.

Don't tell me you are one of those noobs who keep the old files on the cards between sessions.

I'll bet I have more Nikkors than you do eh. Hey lets go shooting with my 50 f1.2 and 300 f2.8 and my Nikon bellows.

I didn't know that the D40 isn't a serious camera. What makes a camea serious, the frown on the face of the person using it. I don't own that camera but you've just insulted all the D40 users.

Due,

NickST said:
your gear on ebay. Also I feel sorry for you with all your Panasonic and Oly gear. Please make sure you include "free shipping" in your auctions.

By the way, not all cameras have the LCD on the top since you are wondering about the D40. Only serious cameras do. But, you wouldn't know the difference.
--
--Nick.

The Davinator · Nov 13, 2009

I'm confused Dennis....every Canon I've ever owned shows how many shots on the LCD on top of the camera. Did I read what you wrote incorrectly?

dennis tennis · Nov 13, 2009

Nope,

D300s native ISO is 200 so this would hamper the D300s.

You must gear the test to favor the Nikon so it would have to be 9 bracketed frames or something if AF so that we can show just how superior the Nikon AF is. wink wink

There is only one AF test that I'm interested in and I think I'll go to my local shop and do it.

Put my Nikkor 50 f1.2 on the 7D with AF confirm adapter and see how accurate the focus is at 1.2.

Funny how people like to list specs all the time, count numbers of AF, number of bracket.

Personally, I want Nikon to give my an AF with 12 million AF cross sensor points. I want to scroll and select just the pixel I want because per-pixel sharpness is so critical for me

Dave Luttmann said:
Put both on a tripod, mount excellent glass on each, photograph a landscape at iso 100, and print to 20x30. Compare.

See....wasn't that easy?

Another birder · Nov 13, 2009

That the D300 is an amazing camera, and that people who own it should not feel threatened by the 7D - it more than holds its own.

--
Canon 40D
FujiFilm F20

http://www.pbase.com/timothyo

Underwhelming 7D review from Dpreview

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