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A newbee who needs advice before a Soccer game

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ednorton

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Hello,

My XSI is in the mail from Amazon and my sons Championship Soccer game is this Saturday. Also ordered a 55-250 IS but that is still out of stock so probably wont get it in time, just will have the basic lens that comes with it. Plz give me some basic info and basic settings, because I will probably not have enough time to read manual. Probably not smartest thing but what the heck, I wont waste film!!! There probably willbe no masterpieces, but I have to give it a try. My son is counting on me. Is this camera water proof, because it may rain.

THANKS for any info for this guy on training wheels.
 
Hi - I am not a sports shooter so in the absence of any replies you might try this -

You need to set the camera to shutter priority - as high as you can get it and at least 1/500th sec to stop the action. You may need to bump the iso up to 800 iso or higher if it is a dull day to achieve a high shutter setting. Turn the IS off as the subject is moving.

Hopefully the action guys will give real good advice.
--

Canon 50D, Canon 1000D, EFS 18-55mm IS, ,EF 28-70L EFS-60mm f2.8 macro, EFS 55-250mm IS., 580EX, Hensel studio lights, Fuji F30
 
Practice on moving cars. Especially learn how to use AI Servo mode.

Download the manual before you get your camera. The in-depth review on dpreview is a very good substitute for a manual anyway. :)

18-55 IS is far too short for soccer anyway. The field is very long and unlike in American football, the stops are relatively rare.

The camera is NOT waterproof and neither is the lens! However, putting the camera in a plastic bag is one way to solve that problem.

You won't like the next part, but this is what you would ideally need for shooting soccer effectively, with the exception of even longer glass.

If this game is very important, rent a 70-200 f/2.8 IS with a 1.4x teleconverter, which is still too short, or find a willing photographer with the right gear. In my area, that's $53 for the lens, and $12 for the converter for 3 days. You don't really need IS for this, so the non-IS 2.8L is only $35 for 3 days. That is the same lens Sports Illustrated uses (well, they use longer lenses for soccer, but...). A monopod for 3 days would be an extra $9.

These rates are valid for me because I have a lens rentals company locally. They are probably higher if you have to deal with shipping.

You've picked an interesting subject as soccer is not as predictable as some other sports. For one thing, I reconfigure my camera whenever I am about to shoot action sequences. My shutter no longer controls my focus, my metering gets changed etc. Random angles and fast running people are just the perfect thing for a newbie who haven't even read the manual yet to practice on. ;-)

My recommendation would be to enjoy the game and to take pictures before and after the game. Let someone else handle the in-game pictures. It'll be a lot more fun for you.
 
No prior experience shooting sports?

Put the camera in sports mode, (running man on the dial), make your way to the sidelines and shoot what you can.

The suggestion to rent a longer lens is a good one. The classic sports lens is the 70-200mm range. The 55-250 that you have on order will work well too.

It might rain? The suggestion for the camera in a plastic bag is a good one. Here is a visual:

http://www.pbase.com/citylights/weatherproof

If it rains, you are also going to have problems getting enough light for high enough shutter speeds to stop motion.

Give it your best shot, figure on learning from your experience and doing better next time.

Good luck!

--
CityLights
http://www.pbase.com/citylights
.
 
the OP said "my son is counting on me".

You need to make sure you manage your son's expectations. I don't know what that statement means or what he is expecting. I also don't know what type of field you'll be on. Even a 200mm lens is woefully short for full field soccer. From the touchline 300-400mm is required. Now if you're not even on the field but behind a fence it's even worse.

So, as the above advice states - use the sports mode of the camera. But make sure your son's expectations are managed. That's the critical thing here. You're going to need more time and a better lens to start getting good shots. 55mm just isn't going to cut it very well. Which again - isn't an issue for you - but be sure your son isn't expecting sports-page quality shots.
 
ednorton said:
Hello,

My XSI is in the mail from Amazon and my sons Championship Soccer game is this Saturday. Also ordered a 55-250 IS but that is still out of stock so probably wont get it in time, just will have the basic lens that comes with it. Plz give me some basic info and basic settings, because I will probably not have enough time to read manual. Probably not smartest thing but what the heck, I wont waste film!!! There probably willbe no masterpieces, but I have to give it a try. My son is counting on me. Is this camera water proof, because it may rain.

THANKS for any info for this guy on training wheels.
Click to expand...
you will need the 55-250 or some kind of telephoto zoom. If it's full sunshine set the ISO on 100 and use Tv mode at 1/800 shutter speed. if it's cloudy you will need to adjust the ISO to get a good high shutter speed. if it's at night... uh oh.. you will definitely need a "2.8" telezoom which is expensive! Also try using AI servo mode but with just the center focus point.
 
I would not suggest using shutter priority mode. You can end up taking photos that are underexposed that way. Plus you have to enable ai-servo focusing yourself plus enable burst mode yourself. Use sports mode.

After you read the manual, TV is still the last mode I would suggest. For three reasons -

1) as mentioned above you can end up with underexposed shots if your ISO isnt high enough.

2) you lose control of depth-of-field. A good sports photo has subject isolation. That's tough enough at 250mm f5.6. The last thing you want is the camera selecting an aperture of say F8 or f11.

3) Except for rare instances there's no reason to lock in a maximum aperture value. If it's bright enough to get 1/2000 that's great. So no need to limit yourself to 1/800 - you want the fastest shutter speeds your gear and light levels can get you.

After this initial game I suggest instead you start using aperture priority (AV). Eventually you will want to shoot in manual exposure whenever you can but that's down the road. Aperture priority will better protect you against underexposed images. AND you can ensure the best subject isolation by locking in the widest aperture value - f5.6 in the case of your 55-250.

But that's after this weekend. I do agree with the above poster on one thing though - if the game is at night under lights your out of luck without a 2.8 lens and sports mode won't work as it won't go up to the ISOs you need.
And yes, I do shoot soccer so I practice what I preach:





 
Hello,

Are you saying that the canon 50-250 IS, is not going to be of any use when it comes to taking sports pics? I am on a tight budget, and got a great deal (637.00 for entire package on Amazon). Did this newbee make a big mistake?
 
for the Canon 55-250 it will always be at f 5.6 !!!!
Tv mode is best for this (ISO 100 in full sun)

XSi (450D) - Tv mode @ 1/1000 ISO 100

 
slayboss said:
for the Canon 55-250 it will always be at f 5.6 !!!!
Tv mode is best for this (ISO 100 in full sun)
Click to expand...
Actually, no it won't necessarily remain at f5.6. If conditions are bright enough for 1/2000 at ISO 100 f5.6 and you use TV mode the camera will stop the lens down to f8. That's one reason why TV mode is bad.

Your photo also illustrates another problem with TV mode - the shot is underxposed - too much shadow. Another good illustration of why not to use TV mode. Thanks for helping to make my point.

Actually AV can have similar problems when there's a lot of bright in the frame - like white uniforms. Canon DSLRs are programmed to try and protect highlights - so you'll get underexposed images in any mode where the camera is metering (except spot - but I don't know too many people that use spot metering for sports).

That's why manual mode works even better - so you can get faces exposed properly in bright light.





But my advice isn't strange. You're not going to find a qualified sports shooter that recommends TV for these types of sports. You'll find the advice to use manual exposure then AV if lighting is inconsistent fairly universally recommended. If you don't believe me slayboss, post a message over at sportsshooter.com asking the shooters there whether they use TV for soccer or other field sports.
 
I was saying that if you're shooting this one game with just the kit lens (18-55) because you don't have the telephoto then you're out of luck.

The 55-250 is a very decent consumer grade telephoto and in good light outdoors should be very usable.
 
John_A_G said:
slayboss said:
for the Canon 55-250 it will always be at f 5.6 !!!!
Tv mode is best for this (ISO 100 in full sun)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
those "qualified" shooters use 2.8 telephoto zoom lens ! with the 70-300, 55-250 etc. it is best to use Tv mode and the aperture will remain at f5.6 and you can select the appropriate shutter speed and ISO
BTW - those shots look overexposed
 
Ok, here's a brief tutorial on exposure and shutter priority. If you do not have auto ISO and use shutter priority, ISO and shutter remain constant and APERTURE changes.

So, if the PROPER exposure for the scene is 1/2000, ISO 100 and f5.6 and you put the camera in shutter priority mode and dial in ISO 100 and 1/2000 shutter speed, then the camera will select the apertur value of f8, not f5.6. That's simply how it works. Want an extreme example? Set shutter speed to 1 second. Will the camera leave aperture at f5.6? No, it will not. Shutter priority mode freezes the shutter speed, not the aperture. Aperture remains variable and controlled by the camera.

The photos I posted were posted for a reason - to illustrate extreme lighting. There is too much dynamic range in the shot for both facial tones AND uniforms to be exposed properly. My assertion is that in such an instance it's better to expose the faces properly. Higlights in the uniform are blown out - but to me a visible face provides more interest than properly exposed whites but face in deep shadow. Another photographer could have chosen to underexpose the faces and preserve more uniform highlights. That would be there choice - and in manual exposure the photographer makes that choice. BUT, if left up to the camera to decide the exposure (which is the case in TV, AV, P or auto) the camera would have horribly underexposed the faces.

Which lens you're using doesn't change which exposure mode you should use. Shutter priority isn't bad with those of us who use f2.8 lenses simply because the lenses are f2.8. That's rediculous. It's bad for the reasons I pointed out earlier. What is your rationale for essentially saying manual or aperture priority (the two modes experienced sports shooters recommend) are only better than TV when using f2.8 lenses? Whether f2.8 or f5.6, you still have the same problems in TV (loss of DOF control, potential underexposure as illustrated in your shot because the shutter speed was set too high plus the added issue of letting the camera decide exposure values at all and how that is influenced by uniform or background or sky elements in the photo).

For the OP - I'll provide the same advice you'll get from any other qualified sports photographer: TV mode should be used when you want an artificially LOW shutter speed. I.E. when you want to show motion blur. Examples are shooting prop airplanes and you want a blurred vs. static looking prop. Another example is when you're panning for cars/bikes/motorcycles in changing light (if light is constant you'll shoot manual) - again you want slow shutter speeds to show blur in the wheels. Can you get good shots using shutter priority for stop-action sports? Sure. But it has more risks than Aperture Priority does. So aperture priority is a better choice than shutter priority. And, manual is better than both because as stated you want to expose for FACES, not uniforms. So, after you know how to operate your gear, most sports shooters will use manual so the exposure doesn't get skewed by uniform colors. Aperture Priority is then used primarily when lighting is not consistent (sun moving in and out of clouds or you're constantly changing shooting position in relation to the sun).

So far, the only real reason stated for why TV should be used is "because slayboss said so". I've mentioned several times and slayboss' own photo illustrates that TV can result in underexposed images. I also stated it can result in too much DOF - because any person can select a shutter speed value that's too low for the correct exposure with their lens wide open. That's the problem - you have to guess exactly right. Guess wrong and you either get too much DOF or you get underexposed shots. With aperture priority, all you have to do is ensure your ISO is high enough for a MINIMUM shutter speed. So, assume for the sake of argument that proper exposure for slayboss' photo was 1/500 f5.6 ISO 100. If you set your camera to Aperture priority, ISO to 400 (which produces excellent results) and set aperture to f5.6 you would have shutter speeds around 1/2000. The exposure can fluxuate by a stop or more without any issues - a little darker and shutter drops to 1/1000 - no problems. A bit lighter and shutter speed goes up to 1/4000 - again, no worries. In shutter priority we see what happened - the shutter speed chosen was set too high and the shot is underexposed. If the shutter speed were set too low, the camera would decrease the aperture from f5.6 to 6.3, 7.1, 8.0 whatever - and you'd get more DOF than you want.

Or, you could simply use TV because slayboss said it's the best.
 
Sorry - I mistyped which might cause confusion. I said:
John_A_G said:
So, if the PROPER exposure for the scene is 1/2000, ISO 100 and f5.6 and you > put the camera in shutter priority mode and dial in ISO 100 and 1/2000 shutter > speed, then the camera will select the apertur value of f8, not f5.6.
Click to expand...
What I should have said was:

...and dial in 1/1000, ISO 100 and f5.6

Sorry for any confusion I might have caused.

And to answer the follow-up question - why would you deliberately set too low of a shutter speed? Two reasons - first, and most likely, the shutter speed was correct when you initially set it but light levels changed so now it's too low. That's the most likely occurance. The less likely reason is you simply weren't paying attention when you chose the shutter speed and didn't notice that the camera selected f8 instead of f5.6.
 
Quick tip - get down low to take the pictures; sit rather than stand. It'll make the players look much better.

Set the focus to AI servo. When you half-press the shutter it'll track the players and keep them in focus. Hopefully.

Keep the aperture as wide as possible. This will make the background blurry so the players really stand out.

Keep the shutterspeed as fast as possible. It'll freeze the action and help keep things sharp.

Lower ISO is better, but you should get acceptable results at 800. 1600 looks bad to me, but sometimes it's a choice of that or no photos (I live in the UK - we don't really do sun).

You'll take a lot of photos for every 'keeper'. I like to try and capture the beginnings or end of an action - the start of the kick as the leg is drawn back, or the end of a kick when the leg is forwards. Look at other soccer photos and see what other people are taking pics of, then copy them.

One last thing, if your son really wants the photos and you've only the 18-55 then either hire a lens or wait for the new one to arrive. The 18-55 hasn't got the range, though if he's near the sidelines a lot you may get away with it.
 
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