A100 and MLU

calimero

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Hi

I am getting interested in the A550 as an upgrade to my A100. As I'm reading a lot of post commenting about the lack of MLU and if it is important or not, I have done some tests on my A100 to check the effect of using MLU or not. I know that the conclusions won't be valid for other cameras different from A100, but is the only camera I have for test. I suppose that the behavior of A550 no-MLU will be similar or better, but not worse.

I have tried the conditions that I consider a realistic bad scenario with the gear I have and the type of photography I usually do: Beercan at 210 (the longest lens I own). An old, not specially robust Velbon tripod. I have been photographing a portion of an underground map (9 x 6 cm) at a distance of 1.15 m. The shutter speeds range from 1 sec. to 1/125. For maintaining a constant f8 aperture I had to change the lamp position between shots. I needed also to change from IS0100 to ISO400 when passing from 1/4 to 1/8 shutter speed. I used a remote cable and waited > 6 sec. from shot to shot. I repeated each shot twice, but the results were always almost identical. SteadyShot off. JPEGs from camera (Fine).

The next picture shows a 1:1 crop of the central part (approx. 1/6 of the full width an height of each frame).



This experiment was only intented for me to get an approximate idea of the magnitude of the lack of sharpness due to not using MLU, which I previously ignored. I must say that I believed that the effect of camera vibration would be more evident without MLU, so I am a little less worried now. It seems to me that the worst results for no-MLU are obtained between 1/2 and 1/30 sec. I suppose that more difficult conditions (longer lens, macro) could make the effect of vibrations more evident. I also tested the effect of activating SteadyShot with no-MLU. Sadly, it didn´t provide any enhancement (it didn´t get worse, neither).



Vincent
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.

Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.
What techniques would you use to get around not having MLU?
Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
--
Rick
 
fast shutter speed
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.
What techniques would you use to get around not having MLU?
Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
--
Rick
I am not here to teach you the basics of photography.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
 
fast shutter speed
Or even slower speed. Also, as was posted, camera on a beanbag (instead of tripod) will reduce mirror effect. You can also put some mass on the lens (bag or something) or hold it (i.e add mass to the camera). That will also dampen the effect of mirror.
 
IMO, this is an excellent test Vincent. Results appear consistent with theory and definitely fall into the right shutter range.

Nice shootin and nice presentation!

BTW, I had a great visit to your country in September - 500 miles of cycling in Cantabria. Absolutely beautiful.
--
AEH
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/
Question: What do you do all week?
Answer: Mon to Fri. Nothing, Sat & Sun I rest!
 
You definitely identified the shutter speed/focal length combinations where mirror slap can have an effect on sharpness. It's hard to believe that Sony would delete this feature since Minolta and Sony have had this feature on most or all of their film and digital cameras for over 10 years. I can't imagine that it adds a lot of cost to a camera since the research and development and production of this feature is already well established. I do a lot of wildflower photography with long lenses with extension tubes often at shutter speeds that are prone to mirror slap. I have really found that MLU/2 sec Mirror Prefire adds to sharpness of the image.
--
Erik H. Pronske, M.D.
http://www.pbase.com/epronske
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.
What techniques would you use to get around not having MLU?
Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
--
Rick
I am not here to teach you the basics of photography.
So you don't want to pass on your experience and knowledge to aid other readers of the forum?

Dave
 
You definitely identified the shutter speed/focal length combinations where mirror slap can have an effect on sharpness. It's hard to believe that Sony would delete this feature since Minolta and Sony have had this feature on most or all of their film and digital cameras for over 10 years. I can't imagine that it adds a lot of cost to a camera since the research and development and production of this feature is already well established. I do a lot of wildflower photography with long lenses with extension tubes often at shutter speeds that are prone to mirror slap. I have really found that MLU/2 sec Mirror Prefire adds to sharpness of the image.
--
Erik H. Pronske, M.D.
http://www.pbase.com/epronske
Being fair MLU did not feature on many of the Minolta film bodies, well most of them..some did, aka 7 etc.

But, they did put it on the 5d, which signaled that even cameras lower down can have MLU. Sony has really got to learn, that whilst they can get away with it on some entry models, A5xx series, def does need MLU (and other stuff)

It costs nothing, it needs to be there..end of story.
 
IMO, this is an excellent test Vincent. Results appear consistent with theory and definitely fall into the right shutter range.

Nice shootin and nice presentation!

BTW, I had a great visit to your country in September - 500 miles of cycling in Cantabria. Absolutely beautiful.
--
AEH
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/
Question: What do you do all week?
Answer: Mon to Fri. Nothing, Sat & Sun I rest!
You are very kind.

I've been looking at your pictures. Now I think that I don't need to upgrade to a new camera at all! Simply I need to learn making better pictures and the A100 is perfectly capable of that :) I see you had a nice trip in Northern Spain. The picture "Grilled sardines - After" certifies that ;) Very nice pictures, and great legs! Congrats for your challenge-winner picture.

Thanks you all for your responses. Very interesting the beanbag solution.

Vincent
 
fast shutter speed
That would imply a higher ISO so that is not equivalent to having MLU IMO. If I need to set my ISO to higher than base for landscapes I am not going to be happy.

--
Rick
 
fast shutter speed
Or even slower speed. Also, as was posted, camera on a beanbag (instead of tripod) will reduce mirror effect. You can also put some mass on the lens (bag or something) or hold it (i.e add mass to the camera). That will also dampen the effect of mirror.
So now I have to bring a bean bag in addition to my tripod? Where do I mount this bean bag?

Not a substitute for MLU IMO.

--
Rick
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.
What techniques would you use to get around not having MLU?
Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
--
Rick
I am not here to teach you the basics of photography.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
So you have no answer? Doesn't look like I am in need of an education.

Just to humor you I will answer for you.

1. You will probably tell me I could increase my ISO to move the shutter speed out of the "danger" range. I could but that could make me use a higher ISO than I want to. I don't consider that equivalent as you suggest above.

2. I could use some sort of vibration damping device like a bean bag. That assumes it is practical and an alternative to a tripod. Perhaps in some limited cases but again not equivalent.

So dear photo guru please impart some your knowledge to the unwashed masses.

--
Rick
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.
What techniques would you use to get around not having MLU?
Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
--
Rick
I am not here to teach you the basics of photography.
So you don't want to pass on your experience and knowledge to aid other readers of the forum?

Dave
There are more experienced people on this board for that and I am quite a very bad teacher.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
 
Being fair MLU did not feature on many of the Minolta film bodies, well most of them..some did, aka 7 etc.

But, they did put it on the 5d, which signaled that even cameras lower down can have MLU. Sony has really got to learn, that whilst they can get away with it on some entry models, A5xx series, def does need MLU (and other stuff)

It costs nothing, it needs to be there..end of story.
Good, keep shooting with the KM5D as it has all what you need, Barry's ultimate camera. Regarding cost, you know nothing about it. Pure Barry propaganda.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.
What techniques would you use to get around not having MLU?
Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
--
Rick
I am not here to teach you the basics of photography.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
So you have no answer? Doesn't look like I am in need of an education.

Just to humor you I will answer for you.

1. You will probably tell me I could increase my ISO to move the shutter speed out of the "danger" range. I could but that could make me use a higher ISO than I want to. I don't consider that equivalent as you suggest above.

2. I could use some sort of vibration damping device like a bean bag. That assumes it is practical and an alternative to a tripod. Perhaps in some limited cases but again not equivalent.

So dear photo guru please impart some your knowledge to the unwashed masses.

--
Rick
I choose my students and you quite not the kind of students I deal with. Explaining things to you would be a waste of time.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
 
Dear "gpr2020"
Seems that you are over "self-critical" :)

Your expertise is too high to share with others, especially regarding woorkarounds to avoid mirror vibration.

And finally according to your moto you are more competent than any photo reviewer. "In reviews we don't trust" :)

Then let me give you advise wise man. Start using less allegations and use more arguments. Then suggestions you always give to others, will make sense.

Good luck!
 
Dear "gpr2020"
Seems that you are over "self-critical" :)

Your expertise is too high to share with others, especially regarding woorkarounds to avoid mirror vibration.

And finally according to your moto you are more competent than any photo reviewer. "In reviews we don't trust" :)

Then let me give you advise wise man. Start using less allegations and use more arguments. Then suggestions you always give to others, will make sense.

Good luck!
Well, I think you have difficulties understanding what I wrote and that you just give my words the meaning you want them to be.

I do not need to share about avoiding mirror vibration because that is one of the basic thing you learn in photography and that subject has been discussed to death in this board.

My moto means that most of the reviews are wrong and all the time proven wrong by many photographers who take real life pictures. And when I purchase something I never let reviews making the decision for me. I buy what fit my needs and not based on reviewers'point of view.

It is not about being more competent than a reviewer it just about being able to make my own decision based on what fit my needs and not on a reviewer giving a score to a camera according to his own standard, that is not mine.
Now just think what you want, after all we are in a free world.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
 
MLU is important feature. Sony does not provide it to the lower end models(and that is their right as they run the business.) But that does not mean that you can not take the same pictures with these cameras than with the ones that have MLU. There are ways to walk around and get the same results. Now if you think that the a500 is the camera that fit your needs, then just get it and enjoy your photography.
What techniques would you use to get around not having MLU?
Last thing, do not let our board expert influence your choice as he might come here now and start bashing at Sony because of MLU.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
--
Rick
I am not here to teach you the basics of photography.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
So you have no answer? Doesn't look like I am in need of an education.

Just to humor you I will answer for you.

1. You will probably tell me I could increase my ISO to move the shutter speed out of the "danger" range. I could but that could make me use a higher ISO than I want to. I don't consider that equivalent as you suggest above.

2. I could use some sort of vibration damping device like a bean bag. That assumes it is practical and an alternative to a tripod. Perhaps in some limited cases but again not equivalent.

So dear photo guru please impart some your knowledge to the unwashed masses.

--
Rick
I choose my students and you quite not the kind of students I deal with. Explaining things to you would be a waste of time.
--
In reviews we do not trust !
In other words you've got nothing. Thought so.

--
Rick
 

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