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canon 70-200 f4 or f2.8

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SeaScout851

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I got on Craigslist last night and found a canon 70-200 f4 IS lens that the guy is asking $875 for. It includes the lens collar @ $150 and uv filter at around $50. That comes to around $1400 if purchased at an on-line store such as B&H or Adorama. But this morning I've found the lens on Amazon for $865 and there is an off brand collar that is only around $30. And a filter set for $25.

So I find myself wondering about what to do. First off are the off brand collars any good? $150 seems a bit high to me.

Second is the difference between f4 and f2.8. As I understand it that makes for a 1 stop difference. That's not much for double the money. But what about the difference in back ground blur etc.?

Thanks for you comments.

Andy
--

 
Randy:

Back in May I sold my EF 70-200 f/4L and purchased a 70-200 f/2.8L IS. I had a "Hong Kong" collar and even though I used it very little, I was perfectly happy with it. I do use the collar all the time on the heavier f/2.8L IS. I recently quit using UV filters on my EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS as I found the filter interferred with the sharpness. I went for 40 plus years without UV filters, and I am now back in the camp that feels that they offer nothing in 99% of my photos, and there was definite interference with the 17-55's performance, at least in auto focus.

I could never go back now that I have experienced a quality IS system. For what I mostly shoot, the f/2.8 in combination with IS gives a lot more than "1 stop" difference. I am so glad that I took advantage of last Summer's Canon rebates.

I might mention that just about the time I started thinking about selling the 70-200 f/4L, the autofoucus failed. I had used the lens very little and it was a month past one year, so I figured I would have a big repair bill. I went thru Canon's automated procedure on their USA web site, got shipping instructions and sent it in. I got it back in a week with the note "autofocus unit replaced" and it was repaired no charge. They emailed me when they received it, and emailed me when they shipped it back overnight on their dime. All this happened right at Christmas and I figured I would see it after the new year. Outstanding customer server from Canon. I will say that Sigma has a 4 year warranty if I remember correctly, but I have never had a Sigma problem.
--
Charlie Walker
 
Hey there,

You said about sales last summer. I bought almost all or majority of my equipment around September... I thought these were normal prices.. I even caught some sales at B&H that were like $50 to $100 dollors off some $1,000+ lenses. So I thought it was awesome (24-105 L $1,075. 70-200 4IS $1,025. 100 Macro $490) Awesome prices. But then January the prices shot up. I thought something was wrong or Canon went crazy or something. Was it just seasonal sales and those prices will pop up again or did the market for camera equipment just change altogether?
Charlie Walker said:
Randy:

Back in May I sold my EF 70-200 f/4L and purchased a 70-200 f/2.8L IS. I had a "Hong Kong" collar and even though I used it very little, I was perfectly happy with it. I do use the collar all the time on the heavier f/2.8L IS. I recently quit using UV filters on my EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS as I found the filter interferred with the sharpness. I went for 40 plus years without UV filters, and I am now back in the camp that feels that they offer nothing in 99% of my photos, and there was definite interference with the 17-55's performance, at least in auto focus.

I could never go back now that I have experienced a quality IS system. For what I mostly shoot, the f/2.8 in combination with IS gives a lot more than "1 stop" difference. I am so glad that I took advantage of last Summer's Canon rebates.

I might mention that just about the time I started thinking about selling the 70-200 f/4L, the autofoucus failed. I had used the lens very little and it was a month past one year, so I figured I would have a big repair bill. I went thru Canon's automated procedure on their USA web site, got shipping instructions and sent it in. I got it back in a week with the note "autofocus unit replaced" and it was repaired no charge. They emailed me when they received it, and emailed me when they shipped it back overnight on their dime. All this happened right at Christmas and I figured I would see it after the new year. Outstanding customer server from Canon. I will say that Sigma has a 4 year warranty if I remember correctly, but I have never had a Sigma problem.
--
Charlie Walker
Click to expand...
--
Quickly shooter, draw your lens or prepared to get shot.
 
SeaScout851 said:
I got on Craigslist last night and found a canon 70-200 f4 IS lens that the guy is asking $875 for. It includes the lens collar @ $150 and uv filter at around $50. That comes to around $1400 if purchased at an on-line store such as B&H or Adorama. But this morning I've found the lens on Amazon for $865 and there is an off brand collar that is only around $30. And a filter set for $25.

Andy
--
Click to expand...
Andy,

I just checked Amazon and the cheapest I can find is ~$1100. Is the $865 for a used lens? It's not listed anymore if so.

If the Craigslist lens is still available, you might want to check it out. If it's in great shape, that's a good price. If it's less than NM, personally I would pass.

I've been looking at getting this lens and it's all Art Wolfe's fault. Our local PBS station broadcasts his "Travels to the Edge" program. He's now filming in HD and the quality is astounding. Both in his show and in the Canon and Microsoft promos there's shots of the 70-200 in action.

This led me to Art Wolfe's site. He uses the f4 non IS version. He doesn't think the tradeoff of the extra stop for the added weight would fit his needs. His comments led me to further research, including looking for copies.

Based on what I've read, numerous people think the f4 IS version is the sweet spot. It has arguably better IQ than the f4 non IS version and even perhaps slightly better than the f 2.8 versions. Adding IS to the f4 would compensate, in some situations, the one stop loss given up by not getting the 2.8.

If money were no object I'd jump on the f2.8 IS. Admittedly I'd be more comfortable at the f4 non IS price point, but I think the f4 IS is a more practical lens for me. Santa has hinted that if I'm a good boy one might be in my future. Needless to say, I'll be on my best behavior for the foreseeable future!

I hope others with real experience will chime in. I hope my findings and thought process will help you make a choice.
 
I tried both; on a crop camera the 2.8 is a little soft wide open, then is fine. The f4 is superb at any aperture, the highest resolving zoom ever tested according to several test sites. Full frame both f2.8 & f4 versions will be excellent.

The f4 IS is the most satisfying lens I have ever bought, results are incredible wide open, the IS amazing! I can not find fault with it at all, not even a grumble & it's easy to carry which is huge in my book.

If you shoot low light sports get the f2.8, otherwise the f4 IS.

I bought the lens ring direct from China, quality & fit superb; you would think they made the original! I have tried it but the IS is so good I have never really used it!

The price of the f4IS makes it the bargain of the decade. It even seems to have escaped the Canon price hikes, I paid $500 more than you can buy it for now at the same store, something I have pointed out to them more than once!

--

Appreciative student of the late Joan Wakelin. 35 years later still enjoying it!
 
Doug,

Go to amazon and key in canon 70-200 f4 IS

Actually I'm looking at one right now that's listed as $750 plus shipping. Condition is stated as being NEW. This again through amazon. I'm assuming that if I were to purchase this lens and it was not new that amazon would be responsible.

Andy
Doug MacMillan said:
SeaScout851 said:
I got on Craigslist last night and found a canon 70-200 f4 IS lens that the guy is asking $875 for. It includes the lens collar @ $150 and uv filter at around $50. That comes to around $1400 if purchased at an on-line store such as B&H or Adorama. But this morning I've found the lens on Amazon for $865 and there is an off brand collar that is only around $30. And a filter set for $25.

Andy
--
Click to expand...
Andy,

I just checked Amazon and the cheapest I can find is ~$1100. Is the $865 for a used lens? It's not listed anymore if so.

If the Craigslist lens is still available, you might want to check it out. If it's in great shape, that's a good price. If it's less than NM, personally I would pass.

I've been looking at getting this lens and it's all Art Wolfe's fault. Our local PBS station broadcasts his "Travels to the Edge" program. He's now filming in HD and the quality is astounding. Both in his show and in the Canon and Microsoft promos there's shots of the 70-200 in action.

This led me to Art Wolfe's site. He uses the f4 non IS version. He doesn't think the tradeoff of the extra stop for the added weight would fit his needs. His comments led me to further research, including looking for copies.

Based on what I've read, numerous people think the f4 IS version is the sweet spot. It has arguably better IQ than the f4 non IS version and even perhaps slightly better than the f 2.8 versions. Adding IS to the f4 would compensate, in some situations, the one stop loss given up by not getting the 2.8.

If money were no object I'd jump on the f2.8 IS. Admittedly I'd be more comfortable at the f4 non IS price point, but I think the f4 IS is a more practical lens for me. Santa has hinted that if I'm a good boy one might be in my future. Needless to say, I'll be on my best behavior for the foreseeable future!

I hope others with real experience will chime in. I hope my findings and thought process will help you make a choice.
Click to expand...
--

 
Which lens ring from china did you get?

Thanks

Andy
Bronze Age Man said:
I tried both; on a crop camera the 2.8 is a little soft wide open, then is fine. The f4 is superb at any aperture, the highest resolving zoom ever tested according to several test sites. Full frame both f2.8 & f4 versions will be excellent.

The f4 IS is the most satisfying lens I have ever bought, results are incredible wide open, the IS amazing! I can not find fault with it at all, not even a grumble & it's easy to carry which is huge in my book.

If you shoot low light sports get the f2.8, otherwise the f4 IS.

I bought the lens ring direct from China, quality & fit superb; you would think they made the original! I have tried it but the IS is so good I have never really used it!

The price of the f4IS makes it the bargain of the decade. It even seems to have escaped the Canon price hikes, I paid $500 more than you can buy it for now at the same store, something I have pointed out to them more than once!

--

Appreciative student of the late Joan Wakelin. 35 years later still enjoying it!
Click to expand...
--

 
SeaScout851 said:
I got on Craigslist last night and found a canon 70-200 f4 IS lens that the guy is asking $875 for. It includes the lens collar @ $150 and uv filter at around $50. That comes to around $1400 if purchased at an on-line store such as B&H or Adorama. But this morning I've found the lens on Amazon for $865 and there is an off brand collar that is only around $30. And a filter set for $25.
Click to expand...
off brand are always cheaper...as for the filter at $25 I doubt it's a good one.
usually with those lens you need the MultiCoated ones.
SeaScout851 said:
So I find myself wondering about what to do. First off are the off brand collars any good? $150 seems a bit high to me.

Second is the difference between f4 and f2.8. As I understand it that makes for a 1 stop difference. That's not much for double the money. But what about the difference in back ground blur etc.?
Click to expand...
1 stop is always expensive...means 2x more light means more than 2x more materials (think of a 3Dcube ...wanna make it 2x bigger, you would 8x more material...) look at the 200mm f2.0...!!!!!

having 2.8 instead of 4 has also benefits...
  • with a TC you are at F4
  • brighter viewfinder - can use also super precision mat focusing screen
  • some AF sensor requires 2.8
downside...bigger and expensive

I have the 2.8 IS and it's a piece of jewel to be honest.... for concert and sport it's a workhorse. look at my thread on the marathon photos i recently on the same forum...if you get a 2.8 one , no worries with the collar since it comes w/ it

http://www.vadimkrisyan.com/Sports/New-York-City-Marathon-2009/10200784_MmGaC#702763047_dDHX6
SeaScout851 said:
Thanks for you comments.

Andy
--

Click to expand...
--
Vadim
http://www.vadimkrisyan.com
 
F4 is too slow to stop people from blurring, no mater how strong the IS is. Plus, for portraits, you get better and more background blur at 200mm and F2.8.

Another note - get a high-quality UV filter, like a B+W multi-coated one. They're about $70. They clean easier than the Hoya SMC, and don't degrade the image that the cheaper one's do.
--



Bossier City, Louisiana
http://www.pbase.com/ericsorensen
Shreveport Photographic Society: http://www.spsclub.org/
 
SeaScout851 said:
Go to amazon and key in canon 70-200 f4 IS

Actually I'm looking at one right now that's listed as $750 plus shipping. Condition is stated as being NEW. This again through amazon. I'm assuming that if I were to purchase this lens and it was not new that amazon would be responsible.

Andy
Doug MacMillan said:
Andy,

I just checked Amazon and the cheapest I can find is ~$1100. Is the $865 for a used lens? It's not listed anymore if so.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I went to Amazon, keyed in your search and found the lens. The title lists it as "IS", but not the technical details.

It's funny, you can search Amazon another way and get a completely different price, more in line with what other retailers are asking.

Is there an older version with a different IS? Maybe what's listed is NOS.

It's not adding up...
 
Why do so many people insist that an f4 lens is too slow to stop motion blur of a moving subject? Aperture has nothing to do with stopping motion. That is a function of shutter speed. One of the most popular super tele's for sports shooters is the 600 f4. If f4 is good enough for SI shooters then it should be fine for your kids little league game. After all the only difference between 1/500 f2.8 and 1/500 f4 is a change from ISO 100 to ISO 200. That I don't believe will cause IQ to suffer. Matter of fact with most cameras now going from ISO 400 to ISO 800 in poor light to get comparable exposures still won't cause a huge loss in IQ.

Scott
 
That lens is so sharp I once cut my finger on it taking of the lens cap.

I used mine on both a 20D and a 40D before I switched brands, and this lens was the best sharpest lens I have ever used for a digital camera.

For a cropped camera, this lens and the 17-55 was almost all I ever used. This lens is even sharper then the 85mm F1.8, when both are at F4.
 
Doug MacMillan said:
SeaScout851 said:
Go to amazon and key in canon 70-200 f4 IS

Actually I'm looking at one right now that's listed as $750 plus shipping. Condition is stated as being NEW. This again through amazon. I'm assuming that if I were to purchase this lens and it was not new that amazon would be responsible.

Andy
Doug MacMillan said:
Andy,

I just checked Amazon and the cheapest I can find is ~$1100. Is the $865 for a used lens? It's not listed anymore if so.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I went to Amazon, keyed in your search and found the lens. The title lists it as "IS", but not the technical details.

It's funny, you can search Amazon another way and get a completely different price, more in line with what other retailers are asking.

Is there an older version with a different IS? Maybe what's listed is NOS.

It's not adding up...
Click to expand...
You got me to wondering about this issue. I'm looking at amazon where I did a search for the 'canon 70-200 f4 IS'. The add says Canon Ef 70-200 Lens F4.0 Usm Is L priced at $865.

But as you stated the specs don't mention the IS. But the price is $865. The non IS f4 lens at on-line stores like B&H and Adorama is about $625. I find it hard to conceive that the amazon price would be over $200 more for the non IS version.

The store is listed as: 'UnbeatableSale, Inc.' Looking at resellerratings.com I find that Unbeatablesale, Inc. has a 6 month rating of 1.88 out of 10 and lifetime rating of 3.33 out of 10. But it is listed under amazon. So if one were to order this through Amazon would it not be amazon's responsibility to make sure the lens was delivered as advertised? Or would Unbeatablesale simple say to amazon that they did not mention IS in the specs?

This is most interesting!

Andy

--

 
I contacted that seller a week or two ago about the item. Only after a couple of emails and I'm ready to buy did he say "oh, it is not the IS version, Amazon made a mistake". Typical bait and switch, I am not surprised at their rating.
 
Call me crazy but I sold my 2.8 IS to get the F4 IS when I stopped doing weddings. Other than for paid jobs, the 2.8 stayed home.

The F4 has equal if not better IQ, is half the weight and now goes pretty much everywhere with me.

If there is any drawback, it may be focusing speed when adding the 1.4TC. Now that I have a 7D, this may not be an issue plus I generally don't shoot moving subjects. F4 vs 2.8 becomes irrelevant with 7D higher ISO performance. Sill have to fully test the combo.

In the end, what are you going to use it for and are you going to take it with you. I'm quite happy with the 15-85 & 70-200F4 IS and they both go everywhere with me.
 
I have both.

The f4/IS is my go-to zoom because of its size and image quality.

The 2.8/is is used for night or indoor shooting.

They are both beautiful pieces of machinery.

--
Frank
http://www.sidewalkshadows.com

ego sum via et veritas et vita
 
SeaScout851 said:
I got on Craigslist last night and found a canon 70-200 f4 IS lens that the guy is asking $875 for. It includes the lens collar @ $150 and uv filter at around $50. That comes to around $1400 if purchased at an on-line store such as B&H or Adorama. But this morning I've found the lens on Amazon for $865 and there is an off brand collar that is only around $30. And a filter set for $25.

So I find myself wondering about what to do. First off are the off brand collars any good? $150 seems a bit high to me.

Second is the difference between f4 and f2.8. As I understand it that makes for a 1 stop difference. That's not much for double the money. But what about the difference in back ground blur etc.?

Thanks for you comments.

Andy
--
Click to expand...
Hi Andy.

I have the 70-200f2.8IS with the built in collar. The f4 is much lighter. In fact, with a good ballhead, even the heavier f2.8 does not really need a lens collar. I often leave it home.

I am not impressed with the f2.8 wide open, if I had it to do over, I would get the f4IS. Unless you do a lot of low light hand held stuff, I am not sure what advantage the f2.8 has over the f4. So I think you will be happy with the f4.

I never use any filter other than CPL or ND grads. You need top quality filters in either case.
SeaScout851 said:
Click to expand...
--

When you can't focus, nothing else matters
Once you can, everything else does.

http://ben-egbert.smugmug.com/

Ben
 
ScottD1964 said:
If f4 is good enough for SI shooters then it should be fine for your kids little league game. >
Scott
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure why your comments ended up under mine, but you're pretty much preaching to the choir.

Many higher end DSLR's are capable of producing usable images @ISO 1600 and I've seen some pretty remarkable images @3200.

The only time I would consider the one stop difference would be if I was still doing wedding photography. I shot MF film and would shoot ISO 400 only on rare occasions. If I still shot weddings, I'd shoot available light ala Jeff Ascough. I've seen some situations that would put you at 1/15 @ f4 ISO 1600. Then being able to shoot @ 1/30 instead of 1/15 would be a big difference.

Now that I'm a happy amateur f4 and IS would be way more than adequate.
 
It's on it's way from lensrental.com.

We're going to visit with our youngest grandson and his parents and I thought this would provide a nice field test. We'll probably do some leaf peeping as well.

I'll report on both the lens and lensrental.com. So far I've been impressed with lensrental.com. Setting up an account and renting the lens was very easy. I had a question and called them and got a courteous reply.

I'm glad we found out about the Amazon 3rd party seller. I knew something wasn't right.
 
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