Digital overtaken film thread

And the debate rages on..

I'll use both formats, as I like them in different ways..no need to get upset about it, we all have free will and choice.
 
Even better, there seems to be a tolerable eastern European replacement for my favorite, Tech Pan. Now that stuff is seriously "old school". Kodak just took note of how many people were using the old "Kodak High Contrast Copy Film" (and Agfa Copex microfilm) in a phenidone developer, whipped up their own pnenidone developer, and rebranded HCCF as "Technical Pan".
Which replacement are you using? Adox CMS 20 or the new Rollei ATP 1.1?

Both are slow copy type films with low contrast CMS is a very thin single layer emulsion I think the correct term is 'Lippman type'
There is also Adox pan 25 and Adox CHS 25 which are very different.

I have been told that these films come from three factories; Agfa in Mortsel Belgium(Copex Rapid), Agfa plant in Wolfen Germany (Adox pan 25) and Fotokemika (EFKE) in Zagreb Croatia (CHS ART).
Some say "Gigabit" and "Bluefire" actually are AGFA Copex, others say it's a really good imitation, but you can't argue with the results. And that's an emulsion over 1/2 century old.
The original Gigabit was definitely Copex from Mortsel packed with a Spur Nanospeed developer
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2007/03/gigabit-film-gigabit-film-is-slow.html

Bluefire I can't be sure of because the Canadian Adox is different from from the one owned by Mirko at FotoImpex.

For my own use I have a large stock of 35mm Agfa APX 25 which is my film of choice for full tone slow speed film.
Mark
 
If I went back to film, I'd go back to stainless steel tanks and reels, use a changing bag and mix my own chemicals. One of the main reasons I stopped doing my own film developing was advancing arthritis, so I might have to go plastic and use those so-called easy-winding reels.
Not saying you should go back to film, but are you aware of the quick loading Hewes metal spiral?

We had one at the Lab when we ran a E-6 handline. Basically it consists of a holder for the spiral with a handle, the spiral sits on its edge and clips into the winder, it is then very easy to load film by just turning the handle.
edit
found the link:
http://www.hewes.co.uk/
under products– spiral film loaders.

Hope this is interesting to anyone who has trouble loading their spirals.
Mark
 
Good think with digital is that memory cards never fail and accidental deletion never happens :)

We should be so lucky...

--
Villebon
 
Good think with digital is that memory cards never fail and accidental deletion never happens :)

We should be so lucky...
My Uncle celebrated his 40th Wedding anniversary by flying his wife off for a city break.

When he got home he transferred his pictures to his PC. Whilst doing so the images corrupted, when he tried to open them he gets "invalid jpeg marker' or 'truncated jpeg' message.

Nothing can be done, I've tried using a hex editor to repair the headers but so far unsuccessful.

I'm sure digital is more reliable on the whole, and the less humans we can have in the image chain the less margin for error, but it just goes to show it can happen.
Mark
 
What 2 electron says about the "sad state of film" is that it's even sadder than we thought...

The cine division of Kodak developed the two electron sensitizing film, and it took years for it to migrate from there to the still photography side of Kodak. The still photography business used to drive film development.

And we're just in time to see the bottom drop out of cinema.

There are 140,000 screens worldwide. Putting together data from the DCI and Cinema Buyer's Guide
That's 60% per year growth

100% of theaters should be digital by 2014.

I'd say that's about as long as the color film business (still and cine combined) at Kodak and Fuji has got. It will take a lot more time for color film to totally die, folks like Lucky are going to go on for quite a while...

But I think we've seen the last technological advances in film, and we're just five years from being thrown back a decade or two in technology.
This could very well be true. Glad I like B&W better ;-)
Same here.

Even better, there seems to be a tolerable eastern European replacement for my favorite, Tech Pan. Now that stuff is seriously "old school". Kodak just took note of how many people were using the old "Kodak High Contrast Copy Film" (and Agfa Copex microfilm) in a phenidone developer, whipped up their own pnenidone developer, and rebranded HCCF as "Technical Pan".

Some say "Gigabit" and "Bluefire" actually are AGFA Copex, others say it's a really good imitation, but you can't argue with the results. And that's an emulsion over 1/2 century old.

(I learned about Harold Holden and Arnold Weichert "Control" developer when I was around 12. Aaron Sussman (Susmann?) talked it up glowingly in "The Amateur Photographer's Handbook". You could renew a book every two weeks indefinitely at the Livonia Public Library, unless someone put a hold on it. I kept that book checked out for the entire summer of 1974).

Now, what was this about me ruining every thread?
Wrong Joe, Joseph. When we all talk about Joe, it's not reference to you. It refers to Ludwig100 & Yuzooskar....who have been banned before as Joe Lavee and Digserv.
Lutti , you are a spineless little coward

...and it's not necessarily the wrong 'Joe'. It's very convenient for you to use the 'shot gun' approach, to address posters you dislike with this name. Joseph is one of them. You clashed with him several times and he made mockery out of you.

You have no prove whatsoever, about Ludwig and Yuzooskar, but with your limited thinking, you thought them to be Scott Eaton. Springbock, D P O'neil and others.
The name you dislike the most is JOE, it represent Joe and Joseph.
As to B&W, I think you're referring to Adox CMS 20 film. 35mm grain free at 48"....nice tonality. Work trying using their developer....trust me!
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Well I think it's hilarious that film's death is 6 years overdue, according to all the digital hypsters from 1998. I love digital it's easy, fun, fast and really great for macro (I use P&S cameras) but I still love film too. I bought a Holga and a bunch of 120 film this fall, I've never has so much fun.
--
I brake for animals.
 
Well I think it's hilarious that film's death is 6 years overdue, according to all the digital hypsters from 1998.
Six years overdue?

Where did you come up with that?

Actually, it is surprising how fast films' popularity has fallen in the past several years . . .

Much faster than those within the industry thought it would (ie.- not a bunch of posters on an internet forum who are not in the business that have no real inside knowledge).

Really . . . you'd better stock up now if you want to shoot film forever.

And don't forget the darkroom supplies . . .

--
J. D.
Colorado
 
Where did you come up with that?
You obviously don't read this forum! 10 years ago they were saying film had only a few years left...
Actually, it is surprising how fast films' popularity has fallen in the past several years . . .
Wrong, it's held up an in some areas increased!
Much faster than those within the industry thought it would (ie.- not a bunch of posters on an internet forum who are not in the business that have no real inside knowledge).
Not at all, most predicted the demise of film years ago, this has not been the case..

But then most of us have been around long enough to know you miss film, secretly want to shoot it still, hence the "ex smoker" syndrome we see in your posts!
 
Good think with digital is that memory cards never fail and accidental deletion never happens :)

We should be so lucky...
Gee . . .

Good thing you didn't accidently open that camera back before you rewound that roll of film!

Or . . . good thing that 10th. grader at Walmart didn't screw up your roll(s) of film somehow (which happens quite frequently at the Walmart just down the street from our store/lab).

Or . . . hope that somehow a small particle of dirt didn't get on that pressure plate inside the camera back and cause a scratch down the entire length of every roll you may have shot on that once-in-a-lifetime vacation!

Most memory card problems are user caused . . . mostly by not knowing what they are doing . . . or buying the absolute cheapest no-name-brand memory cards they can find.

Funny thing with film is that while many errors are camera-user caused, the majority of film issues are really caused by someone else as you HAVE TO let someone else do all the dirty work for you (ie.- trust your film in someone elses hands).

And the biggest problem with this is that many people still shop film processing by price and go with the cheapest, and quality photo finishing be damned.

Then they come on these chat boards and complain about the finishing, when in reality, they have nobody to blame but themselves . . .

--
J. D.
Colorado



I do understand its a Jeep thing . . . thats why I bought a Dodge!
 
Where did you come up with that?
You obviously don't read this forum! 10 years ago they were saying film had only a few years left...
Actually, it is surprising how fast films' popularity has fallen in the past several years . . .
Wrong, it's held up an in some areas increased!
Much faster than those within the industry thought it would (ie.- not a bunch of posters on an internet forum who are not in the business that have no real inside knowledge).
Not at all, most predicted the demise of film years ago, this has not been the case..

But then most of us have been around long enough to know you miss film, secretly want to shoot it still, hence the "ex smoker" syndrome we see in your posts!
Yeah, yeah . . . same old song and dance!

--
J. D.
Colorado

I do understand its a Jeep thing . . . thats why I bought a Dodge!
 
Even better, there seems to be a tolerable eastern European replacement for my favorite, Tech Pan. Now that stuff is seriously "old school". Kodak just took note of how many people were using the old "Kodak High Contrast Copy Film" (and Agfa Copex microfilm) in a phenidone developer, whipped up their own pnenidone developer, and rebranded HCCF as "Technical Pan".
Which replacement are you using? Adox CMS 20 or the new Rollei ATP 1.1?
Bluefire. Which is, unfortunately, the one you don't have data on. No one seems to know where that stuff comes from.
Both are slow copy type films with low contrast CMS is a very thin single layer emulsion I think the correct term is 'Lippman type'
There is also Adox pan 25 and Adox CHS 25 which are very different.

I have been told that these films come from three factories; Agfa in Mortsel Belgium(Copex Rapid), Agfa plant in Wolfen Germany (Adox pan 25) and Fotokemika (EFKE) in Zagreb Croatia (CHS ART).
Some say "Gigabit" and "Bluefire" actually are AGFA Copex, others say it's a really good imitation, but you can't argue with the results. And that's an emulsion over 1/2 century old.
The original Gigabit was definitely Copex from Mortsel packed with a Spur Nanospeed developer
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2007/03/gigabit-film-gigabit-film-is-slow.html

Bluefire I can't be sure of because the Canadian Adox is different from from the one owned by Mirko at FotoImpex.
And they feud about it in public, too.
For my own use I have a large stock of 35mm Agfa APX 25 which is my film of choice for full tone slow speed film.
Lucky you. All I have is eight rolls of tech pan in the freezer.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Bluefire. Which is, unfortunately, the one you don't have data on. No one seems to know where that stuff comes from.
I think it is Copex Rapid, Bluefire isn't common here in Europe, although on their site the say surveillance film, which could make it similar to some of the films used by the German military made in Wolfen, so either way it is ex-Agfa

They are difficult to tell apart because the all come on a PET clear base Copex (aka Gigabit) looks like this:


Lucky you. All I have is eight rolls of tech pan in the freezer.
Would you like some or any European film hard to get in your area you could contact me though my blog Photo Utopia, I can't give my e-mail address out here because I fear a repeat nasty incident.
Mark
 
[interesting discussion about cine films and low speed B&W films deleted for brevity]
Now, what was this about me ruining every thread?
Wrong Joe, Joseph. When we all talk about Joe, it's not reference to you. It refers to Ludwig100 & Yuzooskar....who have been banned before as Joe Lavee and Digserv.
Lutti , you are a spineless little coward
He provided information that cleared up a misunderstanding. Where is the cowardice in that?
...and it's not necessarily the wrong 'Joe'. It's very convenient for you to use the 'shot gun' approach, to address posters you dislike with this name. Joseph is one of them. You clashed with him several times and he made mockery out of you.
Dave and I patched up our differences quite some time ago. I think our conflict came (and I'm sure he'll chime in if his opinion on this differs) because we are too much alike, both fairly opinionated (to put it bluntly) and rather forceful in support of our own beliefs. Sometimes, too much so for our own good.
You have no prove whatsoever, about Ludwig and Yuzooskar,
Did you know that you, ludwig100, and Joe Lavee all frequently use the word "prove" when you should be saying "proof", as in "no prove", "a prove", and "the prove"? And that's just one of over 40 linguistic features (a verbal fingerprint, as it were) that you all share in your writing...
but with your limited thinking, you thought them to be Scott Eaton. Springbock, D P O'neil and others.
The name you dislike the most is JOE, it represent Joe and Joseph.
Divide and conquer? Not working today, I think.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
[interesting discussion about cine films and low speed B&W films deleted for brevity]
Now, what was this about me ruining every thread?
Wrong Joe, Joseph. When we all talk about Joe, it's not reference to you. It refers to Ludwig100 & Yuzooskar....who have been banned before as Joe Lavee and Digserv.
Lutti , you are a spineless little coward
He provided information that cleared up a misunderstanding. Where is the cowardice in that?
I guess he doesn't have access to our emails ;-)
...and it's not necessarily the wrong 'Joe'. It's very convenient for you to use the 'shot gun' approach, to address posters you dislike with this name. Joseph is one of them. You clashed with him several times and he made mockery out of you.
Dave and I patched up our differences quite some time ago. I think our conflict came (and I'm sure he'll chime in if his opinion on this differs) because we are too much alike, both fairly opinionated (to put it bluntly) and rather forceful in support of our own beliefs. Sometimes, too much so for our own good.
You hit the nail on the head Joseph!
You have no prove whatsoever, about Ludwig and Yuzooskar,
Did you know that you, ludwig100, and Joe Lavee all frequently use the word "prove" when you should be saying "proof", as in "no prove", "a prove", and "the prove"? And that's just one of over 40 linguistic features (a verbal fingerprint, as it were) that you all share in your writing...
Ya, this is something many of us have noticed.
but with your limited thinking, you thought them to be Scott Eaton. Springbock, D P O'neil and others.
The name you dislike the most is JOE, it represent Joe and Joseph.
Divide and conquer? Not working today, I think.
Right on that account as well.

Best regards,
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Well I think it's hilarious that film's death is 6 years overdue, according to all the digital hypsters from 1998.
Six years overdue?

Where did you come up with that?

Actually, it is surprising how fast films' popularity has fallen in the past several years . . .

Much faster than those within the industry thought it would (ie.- not a bunch of posters on an internet forum who are not in the business that have no real inside knowledge).

Really . . . you'd better stock up now if you want to shoot film forever.

And don't forget the darkroom supplies . . .

--
J. D.
Colorado
You can't be serious. in 1998 it was predicted on photo.net that film would be dead in 5 years (2003). Then when Canon released the D30 in 2000 it was predicted that film would be dead in 5 years (2005). Then when Canon released the D60 in 2002 (2007) film was called dead. Yes in the 'industry' of news paper and webzine photography, film has been replaced. But I have, in my city (Minneapolis, MN) which is considered a small town by many in other bigger cities, at least 6 pro labs that still sell film (in all sizes), darkroom supplies, and offer dip and dunk developing services with no signs of stopping or even reducing them.

Plus here we are still arguing about it. Oh and as for the 'industry' the huge (10'x12') ad posters they hang on the street level of the corporate office are shot on film. Probably large format. They hung a digital one once and you could still see jaggies.
--
I brake for animals.
 
There is no resurgence of film users.

Or even in film manufacturing.
There is when kodak adds a film like Ektar 100.
Again, that's a film technology developed 7 years ago for Kodak cine films. It didn't migrate to still film until Kodak noticed that the cine film industry is headed for collapse.
Film is already in what is called the 'niche' market.
It was noted that last year something like 11 of the stop 30 photographers age 30 or younger used film, but this year it was 29 of the 30.
Hmmm...
  • 30 top photographers age 30 or younger. Now that's a niche, 30 photographers out of three hundred million. If I've got it right, that's 0.000001%
  • How much film do they use? 100% of their work? 50%? 3%?
  • Where did you get that figure, anyway?
It will be around for a long time, but will never be mainstream like it once was.
That is true, but it's all tools for the job. Digital is good at quantity and high iso. Film is good for low sensitivity, b+w, slide projecting, in the physical world (a mounted slide can be seen with just a light source, can't do that with an image on a HD or optical disc), slide film provides reliable, repeatable color capture.
I agree (that's unusual when talking to you) with most of that. Except for the part about reliable, repeatable color capture.
  • Reliable? The best color films have 3x the color errors (easily computed in delta E values) of common digital cameras (I used a Nikon D2X for my own delta E standard).
  • Repeatable? Not to within 5 delta E, while digital is repeatable to 0 delta E.
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Bluefire. Which is, unfortunately, the one you don't have data on. No one seems to know where that stuff comes from.
I think it is Copex Rapid, Bluefire isn't common here in Europe, although on their site the say surveillance film, which could make it similar to some of the films used by the German military made in Wolfen, so either way it is ex-Agfa

They are difficult to tell apart because the all come on a PET clear base Copex (aka Gigabit) looks like this:


Lucky you. All I have is eight rolls of tech pan in the freezer.
Would you like some or any European film hard to get in your area you could contact me though my blog Photo Utopia, I can't give my e-mail address out here because I fear a repeat nasty incident.
I may take you up on that offer, once I manage to clear the backlog around here. Between rebuilding the darkroom (someone tell me again why I felt it was necessary to upgrade it to handling an E size 34x44 inch platinum or gum print) and trying to launch the monochrome DSLR business, I've got very little play time right now.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Bluefire. Which is, unfortunately, the one you don't have data on. No one seems to know where that stuff comes from.
I think it is Copex Rapid, Bluefire isn't common here in Europe, although on their site the say surveillance film, which could make it similar to some of the films used by the German military made in Wolfen, so either way it is ex-Agfa

They are difficult to tell apart because the all come on a PET clear base Copex (aka Gigabit) looks like this:


Lucky you. All I have is eight rolls of tech pan in the freezer.
Would you like some or any European film hard to get in your area you could contact me though my blog Photo Utopia, I can't give my e-mail address out here because I fear a repeat nasty incident.
I may take you up on that offer, once I manage to clear the backlog around here. Between rebuilding the darkroom (someone tell me again why I felt it was necessary to upgrade it to handling an E size 34x44 inch platinum or gum print) and trying to launch the monochrome DSLR business, I've got very little play time right now.
Joseph, if you get info together for the monocrhome DSLR....I'd love to hear about. It's something I've wanted for a LONG time!!
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
I may take you up on that offer, once I manage to clear the backlog around here. Between rebuilding the darkroom (someone tell me again why I felt it was necessary to upgrade it to handling an E size 34x44 inch platinum or gum print) and trying to launch the monochrome DSLR business, I've got very little play time right now.
You are welcome, it offer always stands for any materials from this side of the pond, just go to my blog to contact.
Platinum prints are wonderful do you know the work of Ian Leake?
http://www.ianleake.com/
If you have a link one day I would like to see yours.

Like you I have limited time, more over the last week which has been productive; I took some time off to be with my kids for school holidays, next week-back to grind...
 

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