Sony A750, FF 14.6 MP's

There is far more to image quality than the pixel density and Mp rating of a given camera. If this rumor is true regarding a FF 14 Mp FF chip, all things being equal it should have the low light capability to rival the D3s and 1DMk4. There is the issue of optimizing the in camera processing of images as you allude to. If Sony can utilize the processing of the A550 in a 14 Mp full frame camera, they may finally have a low light camera to brag about.

Combine this chip with a new, better AF system in an A900 size body and Sony could make a product to rival the D700 and 5DMkII.

However, I doubt this rumor is true. Time will tell.

tom said:

I'm missing something. The A700 has 12.2 Mp in an APS-C format. If the 750 has FF 14.6 MP it is the FF equivalent of a 6.5MP APS-C camera. I remember when the KM 7D came out there was all this wailing and nashing of teeth because it was only a 6Mp camera when the equivalent Canon was 8Mp.

What is the advantage of going FF with only 14MP? Yes, you gain the full use of wide angle lenses. That was a valid need when the smallest FL lens readily available was 20mm. But today there are many newer lenses with very small FL.

Noise should be lower because of the larger pixel size, but it typically comes down to the algorithms and choices used in the cameras. Considering that the 500/550 are supposed to have better noise considerations than the 700 with at least the 700's pixel density, I don't see why they would want to decrease pixel density of a FF camera to about to 1/2 of the 500/550 series

If this were to come out, the Canon folks would have a field day talking about Sony taking 2 steps back ('Sure they can make cheap cameras, but they used to be about quality')

Tom

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Hi Tom,

For me such a camera is exactly what I've been waiting for - a real upgrade to my KM7D - something that behaves like the old film cameras.

Unfortunately, it's probably just a rumour.
Renato

The advantage would be if they made it a high ISO, high FPS camera for low light action to fill out their FF line ala Nikon.

Development cost would probably be relatively low as a lot of the A900/850 technology could be used. Good place to introduce a new autofocus system also which is probably one of the weaker points of these cameras. I assume they must be working on that.
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tom power

I don't think this is the point being made. APS-C will continue of course. The question is whether or not there is much future for a camera of the A700 ilk at the top end of the aps-C tree. The kind of advanced amateur/low level pro who wants something beyond the A700 is likely to see their next upgrade step as into FF because this offers some significant image improvement. The lower end new Sony range seems to pretty well straddle the kinds of features/quality the APS-c market has met. The remaining market is the APS-C quality high end second/travelling camera, with interchangeable lenses, in a pocket size that Sony so far hasn't touched.
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Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia

Not sure that many people are interested in more resolution than 14MP would provide on APSC but what would interest a lot of people would be better metering and focusing, in camera HDR & panorama stitching, better DRO and high ISO/low noise etc.

Eventually the big MP race will end and these other features will take precedence - it seems to be beginning now. Obviously the MP count will continue to add up but no longer be the major item people are looking for. JMO

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tom power

On Mp, I can only agree. There is no further point in more mp for APS-C size sensors or smaller compacts. But on larger sensors, FF, the advances you want (except for pano stitching) are better realized through ff with more, but larger pixels. Further evelopment in APS-C is likely to come in handling and portability and "featurism" rather than significant iQ gains. Those wanting significantly better IQ than current APS-C will go FF. And many will want both formats. I just don't see much future for full sized cameras with APS-C format. The lack of a "new" A700 doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of a quality small aps-C or large sensor compact with RAW in the Sony range

It is interesting to look at new Leica models. They seem to have come to similar conclusions in the direction of their new range.
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Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia

Have a look at the photos the nikon d3 or d700 take. This is a full frame 12mp camera. There is no way that a Sony 14.6mp ff sensor is a step backwards. It is a step well and truly into the place that Sony needs to be. The question is price and the features. Personally a high frame rate ( at the very least 6 per second) and a quality viewfinder is all that I want. This camera is coming and will be released around the same time the aps-c sized mirrorless camera is. I will be getting both and will not require a new body for several years once I have them. There is a lot of negativity towards Sony from both their dedicated users and the insecure Canikon people, but if you look at what has been achieved in three years its a pretty impressive effort. The fact that they are able to cast their eye out to the competition and not just see Canon and Nikon is a good thing too. They see red when they see Red. And four thirds or similar is the future of mass interchangeable lens photography.

14.6 MP FF sensor will be put in new HIGH-SPEED camera from Nikon,
which will be competitor for 7D and 1D mark IV.

The replacement of Nikon D3 (or D700) next year. With speed till 15 fps with battery grip.

The camera will put to the dust the noise performance and speed of Canon cameras. D3S is just small upgrade of D3 now.

The SONY and PENTAX version of sensor will be cheaper and slower and the price will be below $1500.

Couldn't agree more - I never thought I wanted a FF camera until I got to play with a friend's D700 - beeeeeep what a great piece of equipment!

If Sony made something similar in an A700-like body I would seriously consider getting it...

jeremiah_rubix said:

Have a look at the photos the nikon d3 or d700 take. This is a full frame 12mp camera. There is no way that a Sony 14.6mp ff sensor is a step backwards. It is a step well and truly into the place that Sony needs to be.

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yana36 said:

14.6 MP FF sensor will be put in new HIGH-SPEED camera from Nikon,
which will be competitor for 7D and 1D mark IV.

The replacement of Nikon D3 (or D700) next year. With speed till 15 fps with battery grip.

The camera will put to the dust the noise performance and speed of Canon cameras.

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LOL

ZJLM said:

If Sony made something similar in an A700-like body I would seriously consider getting it...

Click to expand...

It's here for more than a year now
A900

Molan said:

Sony A750 will not be FF otherwise it would be call a different no. like A850...what a minute there is a FF called A850!!

Whatever the A750 will be like some things are certain:

It is NOT FF
It would have the same features as A700
(maybe some minor downgrades but then also major upgrades)
Most properly a new design as well.

Like new features or better performance (either better ISO noise control or better FPS)

Most properly also higher pixel count, like using the A550 sensor and jpeg engine.

But certainly not FF.

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Look at Canon 7d. That is what it will have to compete against, so that is what it will look like as to features and performance. Price, higher, lower than 7d? Depends on final perceived value of total package relative to competition.

jeremiah_rubix said:

Have a look at the photos the nikon d3 or d700 take. This is a full frame 12mp camera. There is no way that a Sony 14.6mp ff sensor is a step backwards. It is a step well and truly into the place that Sony needs to be. The question is price and the features. Personally a high frame rate ( at the very least 6 per second) and a quality viewfinder is all that I want. This camera is coming and will be released around the same time the aps-c sized mirrorless camera is. I will be getting both and will not require a new body for several years once I have them. There is a lot of negativity towards Sony from both their dedicated users and the insecure Canikon people, but if you look at what has been achieved in three years its a pretty impressive effort. The fact that they are able to cast their eye out to the competition and not just see Canon and Nikon is a good thing too. They see red when they see Red. And four thirds or similar is the future of mass interchangeable lens photography.

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I haven't moved to Sony FF from my A700 mostly because of all that hi-pixel count that Sony crammed into that 24MP sensor. Sure the resolution at 100 ISO is freaking incredible. It's a Studio Photographer's wet-dream. But the higher ISO performance paid the price for this.

Currently on the market, the Canon and Nikon hi-ISO performance is still kicking Sony's rear-end.

For my Portrait work, for my Sports work, and for my Nature/Wildlife work, I prefer 'natural-light' photography. I prefer flash on a very limited basis, usually more for effect, or for more of a subtle fill-light. Sure, if I'm working in a studio environment, flash-control is great. But I prefer great natural light. And I prefer CLEAN hi-ISO to get it done.

In sports photography for example, indoor sports such as Basketball, Volleyball, Wrestling, Gymnastics, etc., ISO 1600 is an absolute minimum. And frankly you really need the speed of 3200 or even 6400. With NoiseNinja, I can make the A700 work at 3200 ISP. But it makes for a real challenge when my clients are wanting to purchase 16x20 and larger Sports Art wall prints.

A good buddy of mine has the Nikon D3, and it's simply insane the image that camera can capture at 3200 and up on to 12,800 ISO!!!
Sorry, but the Sony 24 MP sensor doesn't touch it.
Nor does Canon for that matter.

IMHO, Sony has proven they can deliver the best hi-resolution of any camera on the market with the A900 24 MP sensor. Like I said it is indeed, a Studio Photographers wet-dream. But it's time for Sony to prove they can deliver hi-ISO performance for those of us who like to shoot beyond the doors of the studio, and in something other than bright sunlight.

--
Sol
http://solarviewphotography.com/

'There would be so many more happy digital photographers in the world,
if the 100% zoom button on their computers, was permanently disabled.'
. . . . where is my 100% Lupe, anyways ??' -Sol ;-)

Good point but I would like a slightly smaller body and less MP.

I welcome the news (rumor, so far) of a FF sony sensor a-la-Nikon and I will buy that new camera when it comes out. Being a old time Minoltan, I have excellent vintage glass waiting to be mated to a FF body. It's all banged up from years of use but the quality is there and I want these lenses to have a second life on a digital body. Unfortunately so far, the Sony FF alphas are not compelling enough. I like working with natural light, so high ISO performance and speed are important. From the comments I read on various forums, I am not the only one. It is surprising that Sony hasn't gotten that point yet. hopefully, they have and the rumor we hear about will turn out to be my next camera.

PRE

probably not treu but if it would happen this camera would likely be at iso 25600 as good as my A100 at iso800. that is 5 stops or 32 times better!

--
the second mouse gets the cheese

And here I would concur! I seek the same type of shooting! I am not ready to upgrade from my A-700, but if Sony makes the type of A-700 replacement you and I are looking for that matches the Cn 7D and NkN D-300(S), I will buy it!
--
Glenn

I'm kinda partial to video, but I'm hangin!

Sol said:

jeremiah_rubix said:

Have a look at the photos the nikon d3 or d700 take. This is a full frame 12mp camera. There is no way that a Sony 14.6mp ff sensor is a step backwards. It is a step well and truly into the place that Sony needs to be. The question is price and the features. Personally a high frame rate ( at the very least 6 per second) and a quality viewfinder is all that I want. This camera is coming and will be released around the same time the aps-c sized mirrorless camera is. I will be getting both and will not require a new body for several years once I have them. There is a lot of negativity towards Sony from both their dedicated users and the insecure Canikon people, but if you look at what has been achieved in three years its a pretty impressive effort. The fact that they are able to cast their eye out to the competition and not just see Canon and Nikon is a good thing too. They see red when they see Red. And four thirds or similar is the future of mass interchangeable lens photography.

Click to expand...

I haven't moved to Sony FF from my A700 mostly because of all that hi-pixel count that Sony crammed into that 24MP sensor. Sure the resolution at 100 ISO is freaking incredible. It's a Studio Photographer's wet-dream. But the higher ISO performance paid the price for this.

Click to expand...

...

Sol said:

In sports photography for example, indoor sports such as Basketball, Volleyball, Wrestling, Gymnastics, etc., ISO 1600 is an absolute minimum. And frankly you really need the speed of 3200 or even 6400. With NoiseNinja, I can make the A700 work at 3200 ISP. But it makes for a real challenge when my clients are wanting to purchase 16x20 and larger Sports Art wall prints.

Click to expand...

...

Sol said:

IMHO, Sony has proven they can deliver the best hi-resolution of any camera on the market with the A900 24 MP sensor. Like I said it is indeed, a Studio Photographers wet-dream. But it's time for Sony to prove they can deliver hi-ISO performance for those of us who like to shoot beyond the doors of the studio, and in something other than bright sunlight.
Sol

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Very well stated! Studio and landscape photography is a niche market with very limited growth potential and will remain so. Right now Sony is making FF cameras for the geriatric set and they wonder why they can't sell many of 'em. Duh!

Sony needs to make a FF camera for younger people who live a more active lifestyle and have need for an action photography capable camera. The 3FPS of the a850 is a joke for a $2000 camera and 400 ISO limited JPEGs because of excessive noise is just unacceptable for even a P&S pocket camera. Unless Sony makes a FF DSLR with less MP, less noise at higher ISOs, better motion AF , and with some modern features like Live View, they may as well throw in the towel and leave full frame to Canon and Nikon. At least they can do it right.
-Phil

Well Nikon do rather well on their 12MP full frame.

Few friends jumped from Sony ship for D700. Another one bought D3 to upgrade from D300. So IMHO quite good good. In contrast I have only one friend who bought A900 and I myself do not even consider it. I am more keen on cheaper A850, but not convinced.

D700 has

1. Low noise

2. Full Frame vision - this is completely different shooting; perspective is different, bokeh looks different. It is like 50% of the jump from Bridge cam to APS-C

3. Incredible AF tracking, incredible AF accuracy

4. Fully capable flash system - Sony have chosen their direction, but now they need to walk the walk and release all sorts of flash gear. Flashes alone cannot do.

5. Few very useful photographic features lacking in Alpha. It is true these are hidden amongst crowd of useless items

6. Smaller image size

7. Great results out of the camera. 24 Mpx is great but from consumer perspective not so good as magnified to 100% photos look blurred. Low Res full frame on the other side produces amazing results straight out of the cam

These are all great and do not look like waste.

Cetonid said:

By the way, a 14.6MP full frame from Sony is so unlikely, it would even be a waste of their time to use R&D money to develop that sensor.

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Phixel said:

Unless Sony makes a FF DSLR with less MP, less noise at higher ISOs, better motion AF , and with some modern features like Live View, they may as well throw in the towel and leave full frame to Canon and Nikon. At least they can do it right.

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You'll have to make that just Nikon, Phil, since Canon don't have the camera you describe.

--

I'd love to engage in a battle of the wits with you, but it appears you're unarmed.