Have a new T1i and I love it. But I like to use ACR for processing. Realized after playing around with Canon's digital photo pro, that even with the noise reduction settings turned off in camera, the T1i still applies a small amount of NR (that goes up depending on the ISO setting [example at 800 iso the sliders are both set to 4, at 100 ISO they are both set to 1, but not zero as they should be]). Granted you can turn it off with the sliders in Canon DPP...but this is an annoying extra step before you can mess around with the image in ACR. Anyone have any idea how to fix this? I've been looking all over and it would seem that no one has noticed this problem yet.
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T1i Noise Reduction...why won't it turn off fully?
- Thread starter d verret
- Start date
brightcolours
Forum Pro
I do not understand how you are in DPP and then later in ACR? That really puzzles me.
I could understand DPP -> PS, that is what I use.
In DPP's settings you can set the default NR to 0.
In camera you can turn all the NR off. So then you take a raw image, open it in either ACR or DPP, and bam, there is a small amount of NR applied still. The problem is that IN ACR you can't turn it off, the noise setting doesn't really effect it. So yah, I don't think I can really use DPP> ACR, actually I haven't tried it, but I assume like with DPP you can save settings on a raw image to the .xmp file, and open it back up in ACR with the noise reduction off. But I still haven't messed with that workflow.
brightcolours
Forum Pro
In DPP you can set the it so that no image you open will have NR applied. In ACR,ACR does what Adobe thinks ACR should do. It has nothing to do with your T1i. Just with the choices the ACR team has made.
And no, when you apply settings in DPP, ACR will do nothing with the .xmp file.
So I've set DPP to have no NR...but still, images are coming off the camera with NR, and when you open one up it takes a second to pop, and it resets the NR to zero.
I realize that ACR is doing it's own thing...but it's working off of my camera's raw setting that's also doing it's own thing, and for whatever reason you can't fully shut off the NR on the camera side.
I realize that ACR is doing it's own thing...but it's working off of my camera's raw setting that's also doing it's own thing, and for whatever reason you can't fully shut off the NR on the camera side.
brightcolours
Forum Pro
ACR is NOT working with your camera's settings. ACR has always been a headache in what it does with different cameras, which makes it such an unreliable tool to compare camera output (like DPreview does).
I think we are not understanding each other. In all this, regardless of the raw program used, the images are shown with slight amounts of NR already on...ACR cannot turn it off, DPP can. This is all good and fine, but why should the image have any NR at all? DPP has to process every image to reset it to 0 now that I've changed the default to 0...but it's still doing it, so it means the images are coming off the camera with NR.
This is the problem. ACR is just another element to the issue, because since I cannot turn the NR off or re adjust it and save it to the raw file, I can't have a perfectly clean image to work with in ACR.
This is the problem. ACR is just another element to the issue, because since I cannot turn the NR off or re adjust it and save it to the raw file, I can't have a perfectly clean image to work with in ACR.
linuxshell
Well-known member
i too have the prob you mentioned.
basically even though NR is set to off, when u load it in DPP, it shows that actually it has applied NR with level 4.
I am however fine with this.
basically even though NR is set to off, when u load it in DPP, it shows that actually it has applied NR with level 4.
I am however fine with this.
brightcolours
Forum Pro
You are not getting it. It is not the T1i that tells ACR to turn on some NR. It is ACR that decides that all on its own, do not blame the T1i for that. ACR is and has been problematic in this regard and other issues in the past too, why the ACR programmers make it the way they do is anyone's guess.
I am pointing out that your complaint is about ACR, NOT about the T1i.
ANd in DPP you can turn the NR off by default.
brightcolours
Forum Pro
No, in the RAW data no NR has been applied. DPP sets it to some value. You can tell DPP to not do that, in the settings of the program. Then all RAW files you open will have no NR applied by default, during the RAW conversion.
I understand. It's just odd that the NR level that ACR is applying looks exactly the same as the amount that the T1i is telling DPP to apply...I've compared the two on multiple images at different isos and it would appear that ACR is reading something into the noise reduction levels as it mirrors DPP...but yes I get that ACR is doing this on it's own and it can't be changed, which annoys me.
Thanks for the help though. Hopefully adobe will figure this one out eventually.
Thanks for the help though. Hopefully adobe will figure this one out eventually.
if this is in all your shots then either you are not listening to what people are telling you .. or not understanding ..are you certain that you have the default NR in DPP set to 0(zero).. it installs with a default of 2
ACR and DPP are two distinct and separate programs ..one does not talk to the other so your work flow may be flawed or you are opening and converting in ACR and then using that convertion to work on in DPP. The exif data will show the amount of NR applied by ACR
IF you shoot a raw file and NR defaults are set to 0 in DPP and you open and convert that file with DPP then ther should be no noise reduction applied at all ..
IF you have noise reduction turned off in your camera that is ..unless you have long exposer NR set to auto..maybe that is your issue? ....
ACR and DPP are two distinct and separate programs ..one does not talk to the other so your work flow may be flawed or you are opening and converting in ACR and then using that convertion to work on in DPP. The exif data will show the amount of NR applied by ACR
IF you shoot a raw file and NR defaults are set to 0 in DPP and you open and convert that file with DPP then ther should be no noise reduction applied at all ..
IF you have noise reduction turned off in your camera that is ..unless you have long exposer NR set to auto..maybe that is your issue? ....
Osiris30
Senior Member
You aren't understanding what's going on. There is no NR on the raw. You can't 'undo' NR, so you couldn't turn it off if it had been pre-applied. Canon started setting NR to 2 by default in DPP a few revisions ago, but this doesn't mean the RAW has NR. It just means DPP is applying it by default when you open the raw, it's not applied to the RAW.
The RAW (on a Canon camera anyway) is just that.. data right from the sensor. Things like saturation, etc. you set in the camera are applied by DPP when you open it, but it's just a metadata tag in the RAW file.
I understand there is no NR on raw, but there is something in the raw packet telling DPP to apply a certain amount (Not just 2, because depending on the iso it has more....100 iso yeilds 1 on both sliders, 800 is at 4, HI iso goes all the way up to 7 and 13 respectively). So DPP is applying NR depending on whatever these numbers are coming into the program as from the raw packet. Similarly ACR seems to be reading this, because the level of noise reduction mirrors that of DPP.
WilbaW
Forum Pro
When you say "the level of noise reduction [in ACR] mirrors that of DPP", do you mean that the luminance and color sliders on the "detail" tab are in different positions for different files?
I my experience, they are always set to whatever the default is, independent of ISO.
Osiris30
Senior Member
Well I'm not sure about teh T1i, but for me DPP always applies 2 for NR regardless of the ISO. I think it's a DPP issue, not a raw tag issue (but I might be wrong, I'm just guessing here).
It's likely Canon's thoughts on the minimum level of NR necessary to make the picture 'good'. I'll see if I can find an open source RAW converter and take a look at the code and throw some RAWs into it and we can see.
FWIW I find it equally annoying on the XSI to have any NR by default at 100iso, but it's always there with it's damn 2 setting, so I feel your pain.
richj20
Forum Pro
In DPP:
Tools|Preferences|Tool Palette
Under Default NR Settings select Set as Default and move the sliders to "0"
Requires a restart of DPP.
Now, when you bring up the Tool Palette for an image, all NR sliders will be "0"
Interesting information from Canon on NR and DPP:
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=1407
"Canon Digital Photo Professional software ("DPP") : (Stand-alone program also included with EOS Digital SLRs) Unlike RAW Image Task, DPP software uses different calculations for processing the finished "look" of Canon EOS RAW files. It does not attempt to faithfully duplicate the in-camera DIGIC processor, but rather produces high-quality RAW images with a look of its own. Some critical users feel that Digital Photo Professional software gives the finest overall image quality for RAW images of any available software.
"However, while DPP can read the camera settings in effect at the time the images are taken, it tends to downplay the effect of the camera’s High ISO Noise Reduction. You may see little difference if you compare two RAW files, one with NR active, and one with it turned off. However, DPP has another option: its own separate Noise Reduction tools. For RAW images, DPP allows the option to reduce chrominance or luminance noise, or both. And, unlike the camera’s High ISO Noise Reduction, you can apply it in medium or strong quantities, using a variable on-screen slider. Finally, if you don’t shoot RAW images, Digital Photo Professional still has an answer. For JPEG images, or TIFFs that you’ve created in an image-editing program, you can reduce chrominance noise using a slider control on-screen. "
regards,
-rich
--
Careful photographers run their own tests.
Naw this is some sort of NR that ACR is doing independent of the sliders (because when I open up a raw image through ACR the slider is always set to 0...but their is clearly some sort of NR that's been applied already). Conversely, I tried to just sharpen up the image instead, but this doesn't yield the same results as when I open an image in DPP and turn the NR off. Conclusion: ACR will always do this, and I will keep losing detail until adobe figures out how to fix this.
It's fun that everyone keeps mentioning that DPP will apply 2 NR points natively...I've had a different thing happen. On 100 iso images it applies 1 to both NR sliders. At 800 it goes up to 4. At 12800 it goes all the way up to 7/13 respectively.
And this is not because of high iso NR option, that is off...I tried all this with that feature on and the sliders come out even higher natively.
Anyway, I really don't think that there is a real solution. I cannot make ACR quit doing it's thing, so I just have to find a work around...probably just stop using ACR and only using photoshop for JPEGs and the occasional HDR shot.
Thanks!
And this is not because of high iso NR option, that is off...I tried all this with that feature on and the sliders come out even higher natively.
Anyway, I really don't think that there is a real solution. I cannot make ACR quit doing it's thing, so I just have to find a work around...probably just stop using ACR and only using photoshop for JPEGs and the occasional HDR shot.
Thanks!
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