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Bug in the Nissin Di866 implementation of Auto FP @ Nikon?

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gisle

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I think I've found a bug (or flaw) in way the Nissin Di866 responds to what Nikon calls Auto FP.

Here is my notes on what I think is a flaw: http://dpanswers.com/rev_nissin_di866.html#autfp

The manual (p. 31) claims FP (they call it "HS" for High Speed) works in "A mode and TTL mode". Qute:

"This function is available at A mode and TTL mode. Di866 produces FP flash beam and synchronizes to the highest shutter speed set on the camera."

Auto FP (HS) works as I would expect it to work in TTL mode, but I can't get this to work in A mode. Also, when I set A, M, or Av mode, I can select a shutter speed above the X-sync, which of course ruins the shot. (My SB-800 will not let me to this.)

Before I write up a letter to Nissin and gripe about this, I want to check this with other Di866 Nikonians in this forum.
  • Do your flash also fail to sync above 1/200 when you set Auto FP (on the camera) and uses the flash in the A-mode?
  • Are you allowed to dial in shutter speeds above 1/200 in A, M and Av mode when Auto FP is enabled?
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]
 
Although it could be a miscommunication between the two, it sounds more like a function of the camera than the flash. The camera is only allowing high speed sync in certain modes. Perhaps there is a custom function in the camera that resolves this issue? Or perhaps is only works with certain models?

Brian A.
 
It is of course the body that control what shutter speeds you are allowed to set, or what modes it operate in. But when I use my Nikon SB-800 on D80, it is impossible to select a shutter speed above 1/200 sec when you have the flash in what Nikon calls "A" mode. When you use the same mode on the Nissin Di866 (where it is called "Av" mode), you can select high shutter speeds, but the flash will not sync. So the way I see it, the SB-800 in this case to the "right" thing, and the Di866 does the "wrong" thing. Since the SB-800 does it "right", this is resolvable.

However, I agree with you that the most likely cause of the problem is miscommunication between camera and flash. Nissin has probably reverse engineered the protocol for communicating with the body, and they have gotten this one wrong.

So far, I am pretty sure that there is custom mode in either piece of equipment that will resolve the issue, but I am open for other opinions.
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]
 
After reading your post here and also your notes on this issue, I fired up my i866 and put it on my D300 and stepped outside in this bright Arizona sunlight and fired away. The Nissin Di866 does HSS in ALL modes (Aperture, S, M, P) and does it nicely. Even in Aperture mode (is this your Auto mode or Aperture mode that you are referring to?) that the sb-800 apparently does not work for you? I could not tell any differences in exposure within all 4 modes in HSS. The shutter speeds ranged from 1/400 up to 1/2000 in my short test.

Your issue of not being able to use it in all modes sounds camera based to me as mine works fully in all modes in HSS on my D300.

So the good news is that the i866 does as advertised with HSS in all modes, at least on the D300, and the bad news is that it does not do so on your D80. Your D80 or all D80 cameras, I wonder? I'm betting it is on all D80's.

BTW, being that I am really sold on my i866, I am very much appreciative of your work in listing and comparing the strobe units that you have done. Thank you!
Regards, Jim
gisle said:
I think I've found a bug (or flaw) in way the Nissin Di866 responds to what Nikon calls Auto FP.

Here is my notes on what I think is a flaw: http://dpanswers.com/rev_nissin_di866.html#autfp

The manual (p. 31) claims FP (they call it "HS" for High Speed) works in "A mode and TTL mode". Qute:

"This function is available at A mode and TTL mode. Di866 produces FP flash beam and synchronizes to the highest shutter speed set on the camera."

Auto FP (HS) works as I would expect it to work in TTL mode, but I can't get this to work in A mode. Also, when I set A, M, or Av mode, I can select a shutter speed above the X-sync, which of course ruins the shot. (My SB-800 will not let me to this.)

Before I write up a letter to Nissin and gripe about this, I want to check this with other Di866 Nikonians in this forum.
  • Do your flash also fail to sync above 1/200 when you set Auto FP (on the camera) and uses the flash in the A-mode?
  • Are you allowed to dial in shutter speeds above 1/200 in A, M and Av mode when Auto FP is enabled?
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]
Click to expand...
--



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Jim N'AZ said:
After reading your post here and also your notes on this issue, I fired up my i866 and put it on my D300 and stepped outside in this bright Arizona sunlight and fired away. The Nissin Di866 does HSS in ALL modes (Aperture, S, M, P) and does it nicely.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time to test!

However, I probably did not do a good job of explaining the setup. By "Aperture, S, M, P" you obviously refer to the shooting modes you set on your D300. I should have spelled out that I did all my testing with the camera set on M (Manual). I always have the camera on M when using flash - but I should have pointed it out explicitly. Using M makes this test much easier - you don't need Arizona sunlight to have 1/4000 second.

The modes I refer to (where I can't get Auto FP to work) are all on the flash. I get Auto FP to work in the blue TTL mode, but not in the green AUTO mode, the brown Manual mode, nor the brown Av mode.
Jim N'AZ said:
Even in Aperture mode (is this your Auto mode or Aperture mode that you are referring to?) that the sb-800 apparently does not work for you?
Click to expand...
Again, this is the the Auto (A) "thyristor" mode set on by using the mode switch on the SB-800 flash unit - has nothing to do with "Green Auto" or Apterture (A) mode on the camera.
Jim N'AZ said:
I could not tell any differences in exposure within all 4 modes in HSS. The shutter speeds ranged from 1/400 up to 1/2000 in my short test.

Your issue of not being able to use it in all modes sounds camera based to me as mine works fully in all modes in HSS on my D300.

So the good news is that the i866 does as advertised with HSS in all modes, at least on the D300, and the bad news is that it does not do so on your D80. Your D80 or all D80 cameras, I wonder? I'm betting it is on all D80's.
Click to expand...
I have Auto FP capabilities in all the camera's shooting modes (A, S, M and P) with the Di866, but only when the flash is set to the blue "TTL" mode. I can't get Auto FP to work (in any camera mode) when I set the flash to its "Green AUTO", Manual or Av mode.
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]
 
I misunderstood your original post and was assuming things.

My further testing matches your results in Av mode on the flash. No Auto FP in Av mode on my D300 either. True, this seems to fly in the face of Nissins claim that it does do HS in Av mode, but in fact, it does not, as you already pointed out.

So go ahead and send that email to Nissin and ask what they meant by their earlier claim.

Thanks again for your interest in this otherwise excellent flash. BTW, I find it does so well in TTL mode that I had not tried to do Auto FP in Av mode until your post. The only time I might find this a handicap would be if I was running into "blinkers" from the preflash in lighting that required Auto FP. Not many scenarios would meet that criteria for me. The only problem is that Nissin said it WOULD do this and it doesn't. Perhaps the ability to update via flash input that it offers will handle this.
Thanks again and sorry for misunderstanding your original post, my bad.
Regards, Jim
gisle said:
Jim N'AZ said:
After reading your post here and also your notes on this issue, I fired up my i866 and put it on my D300 and stepped outside in this bright Arizona sunlight and fired away. The Nissin Di866 does HSS in ALL modes (Aperture, S, M, P) and does it nicely.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time to test!

However, I probably did not do a good job of explaining the setup. By "Aperture, S, M, P" you obviously refer to the shooting modes you set on your D300. I should have spelled out that I did all my testing with the camera set on M (Manual). I always have the camera on M when using flash - but I should have pointed it out explicitly. Using M makes this test much easier - you don't need Arizona sunlight to have 1/4000 second.

The modes I refer to (where I can't get Auto FP to work) are all on the flash. I get Auto FP to work in the blue TTL mode, but not in the green AUTO mode, the brown Manual mode, nor the brown Av mode.
gisle said:
Even in Aperture mode (is this your Auto mode or Aperture mode that you are referring to?) that the sb-800 apparently does not work for you?
Click to expand...
Again, this is the the Auto (A) "thyristor" mode set on by using the mode switch on the SB-800 flash unit - has nothing to do with "Green Auto" or Apterture (A) mode on the camera.
gisle said:
I could not tell any differences in exposure within all 4 modes in HSS. The shutter speeds ranged from 1/400 up to 1/2000 in my short test.

Your issue of not being able to use it in all modes sounds camera based to me as mine works fully in all modes in HSS on my D300.

So the good news is that the i866 does as advertised with HSS in all modes, at least on the D300, and the bad news is that it does not do so on your D80. Your D80 or all D80 cameras, I wonder? I'm betting it is on all D80's.
Click to expand...
I have Auto FP capabilities in all the camera's shooting modes (A, S, M and P) with the Di866, but only when the flash is set to the blue "TTL" mode. I can't get Auto FP to work (in any camera mode) when I set the flash to its "Green AUTO", Manual or Av mode.
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]
Click to expand...
--



Odds N' Ends album here:
http://www.pbase.com/jimh/inbox&page=all
Z album here: http://www.pbase.com/jimh/marilyn_the_car&page=all
 
Jim N'AZ said:
I misunderstood your original post and was assuming things.

My further testing matches your results in Av mode on the flash. No Auto FP in Av mode on my D300 either.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time to test!
I let the forum know what Nissin's response is.
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]
 
It seems the there is a newer firmware version loaded on new units that fixes many of the known CLS problems, but still does not fix the Auto FP issue. However, I still cannot find anywhere to download this newer firmware release.

Yoon Lee
 
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