Confused... reasons NOT to buy a K7 over competition?

If I really need an articualted LCD screen, I think I would invest in a stand alone 3rd party screen that can be purchased and plugged into the video out of the camera. In fact, I do not see why Pentax doesn't offer a scree as an option for those who may require this piece of equipment.
I can see the point of an articulated screen for 1) self-portraits/single-travel snapshots (I've got some shots of myself from travels taken with LX+24mm, not easy without even instant review ;-)), 2) macro shots in difficult positions or 3) "Rolleiflex/Hasselblad"-style waist-level shooting. For at least 2) or 3), a hot-shoe mounted small screen would be even better than an articulated screen.
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Espen
 
I've been working and travelling with a K-7 for some time now and like to comment on your remarks...
Thank you. I lay out my responses below. Please realise that I am simply trying to respond to the assertion "there really is NO reason to buy any other camera", rather than saying that these are all reasons why you shouldn't go Pentax - these are just some reasons why you might want to go with another brand.
  • Feel & Handling
I'm 2 meters tall with large hands, I think the K-7 fits better in my hands than any other. (I do have bigger dslr bodies as well!). The fact that Pentax moves opposite of the main brands is better, not worse. Try it before having an opinion please.
I never said which was better. I simply pointed out that the K7 is very small and light, and some people might prefer a bigger camera - either for the comfort in the hand, or the ease of balancing a long lens. I shoot a K200, and I find that I really need the additional battery grip for long lenses. Some people might not, but then like I say in my comment - this is only for some.
  • Compatibility with other professionals
Please give specific references. In my experience this is not true.
Having been looking around and second shooting opportunities, all of the ones I have seen have demanded that you shoot the same system as them. This is almost always Canon.
  • Speciality Lenses
This is very true.

The real problem is availability of LONG and fast lenses and special items, even expansion rings and TC's... And if it is available, you need to order it on Ebay from Taiwan.

On the other hand, the DA* line is so much cheaper than comparable products from C* & N
This used to be the case, but since the price rises I would say the DA* line is now only "cheaper" rather than "so much cheaper"
  • High speed shooting
The best shots in this world were made with film slrs with slow motor drives.

It is showing lack of the photographers experience and quality if he/she needs > 3 fps to shoot 50 frames in order to get 1 good shot. If you are a professional sports photgrapher, yes, for the rest it is not an true issue.
Get a D3x, different price range, different target audience.
As I say above, I'm simply pointing out reasons why you MIGHT want another camera. You admit that more is desirable for sports shooting, so there is a reason not to buy the K7.
  • Continuous Autofocus
See previous comment.
Whilst I don't deny it's possible to get good shots, even with manual focus, other people on this very forum seem to be saying that the keeper rate on K7 CAF is still not as good as on other cameras.
  • Availability of Rental Equipment
How big is the amature DSLR rental market?
No idea. But the thing is, if you want to be able to rent equipment - say a long lens for a trip, a spare body for an assignment or even a new lens so you can "try before you buy", you are stuck.
  • Weather Sealed Flash
Good point. I'd like to see something like that. Canon needs very expensive bodies to do proper weather sealing though.
True.
  • Wireless flash control
Any proper measurement data to support this opinion?
Very subjective statement.
Why I use the term "seem". The Lighting forum seems to indicate that this is the case.
  • Tethered Shooting
True, however, how big is the target audience for this? 2% market share?
It's another reason to go with another brand if this is important to you. I'm not saying the man in the street wants it!
  • Ability to Progress to Full Frame
Same argument. It will never be a business case for a small manufacturer as Pentax to go there.They'd need a whole new lens line as well. To costly, not enough sales.
Same argument here. All I'm saying is, if you want to progress to full frame, Pentax won't get you there. I have no interest in FF myself.
  • "Pro" support
Comparing apples and oranges again.
???
  • Availability of bodies, lenses in local B&M stores to try before you buy
Very true. This is a good argument and very valid.
And made worse by the unavailability of rental equipment.
  • Dual memory card slots (D300)
What comparable camera has?
What about auto level with the competition etc? Some extra features some less.
The D300 as I mention. Sure the K7 has other features, but if you want to be certain that a memory card failure won't destroy your photos, you have to go with another brand right now.
  • Waterproof enclosures and blimps
Available but expensive.
Please tell me where - I've been looking!
  • Social Acceptance by your peers
You looser!
I didn't say it was important to me. For some people, what other people think matters. They might want to fit in with their friends (or even share lenses with them).
  • Really Awful lenses
Objective data please!
I think you missed that this was a joke. I was saying that you can't get really awful lenses for Pentax - for that, you have to go to Canon.
  • Reliable Ultrasonic Focusing motors
Mine are and have been under very demaning circumstances for a couple of years.
Again, this is a bit of a joke. People don't seem to realise that Pentax's failure rate, as determined in this forum (so likely to be over-estimated) is lower than that for e.g. Sigma as quoted by large lens rental companies.
My opinion is that you make the same mistakes as the people you are reacting upon.

You should not put down opinions without proper objective references, some points you make are valid, but are just opinions, believes.
I have better things to do with my time than find citations for an internet argument. I just wanted to point out the other point of view.
 
  • smaller
  • weather-resistent
  • cheaper
  • IQ atleast comparable to competition
  • has all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a semi-pro.
it's simple

"smaller" and "wheather resistant" (the others are resistant too you know) don't help you take good pictures at all. every pentax fanboy i've seen is happy about weather and puts this as No1 feature. makes me laugh.

"cheaper" - more like expensive for what it does.

"IQ" - well that's ok in part, but not good enough for present day.

and as usual with pentax the specs don't match real world performance. for example they have auto iso too but does it work properly most of the times? or with flash? nope! and so on. many features look nice on the paper but don't work as they should.

if pentax really wants to sell more they need to drop down the price and go for larger sales than to price their cameras at "competition" levels.
 
to sum up all you posted - canon/nikon have some cheaper but inferior lenses to choose from.
 
The size IS a big factor, specially important after some years with the camera.

About the lenses.

You´ve got as well all your needs covered thanks to Cosina [makers of Zeiss and Voigtlander glass], Chinon, Zenit, Industar, Komine-Kiron-Tamron-Olympus Vivitars, Samyang, Pentax, Takumars, Supertakumars, SEARS, Ricoh-Rikenon, Jupiter, Helios, of the last 30 years or so.
You mention a lot of lens brands that I, and perhaps others, are not familiar with. Are these all manual focus types of can they auto focus on the K-7? If they are AF lenses, where can I find them?
Which you can use to the full advantage they were designed for because of the main advantage of the K7 over ANY other camera: the hyper modes and the green button.

You will never be able to go back to normal metering or using modes after realising how useful and, apparently, difficult to implement modes are.
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Thom--
 
"IQ" - well that's ok in part, but not good enough for present day.
Have you seen the RAW output ?
and as usual with pentax the specs don't match real world performance. for example they have auto iso too but does it work properly most of the times?
Yes it does
or with flash? nope!
Yes it does. Turn on the flash, press the Green button to Refresh the AutoIso+Overall exposure to account for the flash.

You obviously do not have any real, factual information on the K-7 or Pentax cameras overall, just prejudices.
 
If you want the Pentax zooms you can get them cheaper in their Tokina versions for Nikon, and mostly for Canon though the 50-135 is discontinued.

Prices at BH right now

Pentax
12-24 - $730
16-50 - $744
50-135 - $820

Total $2294

Tokina
12-24 - $500
16-50 - $600
50-135 - $530
I would rather have the weather-sealed Pentax version to be fully compatible with the K-7 body, so I don't accept this one.
Total $1630

Pentax 60-250/4 - $1300
Canon 70-200/4 - $660
Canon 70-200/4 IS - $1235
Not really fair since K-7 has in-body AF so to get similar performance with Canon, you need the AF, so the difference is only $65 .
Now let's look at primes:

Nikon - 35/1.8 - $200
Pentax - FA 31/1.8 - $965
Pentax DA 35/2.8 - $540
The above comparison, at first glance, seems to be a fair one, but let's make sure we stay with APS-C sized lenses, and throw out the FA since it needs to cover a larger area. But are you correct that once we do that, we give up over 1 stop in speed, for more money? Well, perhaps not -- that DA 35/f2.8 is a Macro Limited lens! Limited is Pentax's premium lens line designation. I have read reports where users consider this to be a very fine optic. The Nikon has tested very well, but it's not a macro.
Nikon - 50/1.8 - $135
Pentax 50/1.4 - $360
Really? Let's do apples to apples. Cannot compare an f1.8 lens to an f1.4 lens! Nikon's 50mm f1.4D is $329! You save a whopping $31.
Nikon 85/1.8 - $450
Pentax 77/1.8 - $785
Consider carefully here! I would compare the Pentax 70mm/f2.4 -- giving you a 35mm equivalent focal length of 105mm -- in a lens so small that you would barely notice it your camera bag or on your camera! Try to put a 105mm lens on a Nikon and tell me which you prefer! Price $549!!
Now obviously there are more expensive options for Nikon as well and this isn't a fair comparison, but the cheaper versions for Pentax are only third party options which also exist for Nikon, or old manual focus lenses - which while cheap and plentiful at 50mm aren't so cheap elsewhere.
Not starting a conflict here, but I have also been looking at prices. There certainly are differences among manufacturers, but each has its strong points too. Be wary of some responders in this thread who allude to supposed performance concerns regarding the K-7 -- when they do not own the camera. Pentax, apparently, has had comparatively less-than-stellar performance in it's camera bodies compared to the competition before the K-7 . Folks seem to carry this idea over in spite of the fact that, by most accounts, the K-7 has caught or surpassed direct competition in many areas --- and Pentax has its own unique features that you cannot get from Canon or Nikon no matter what price you pay.
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Thom--
 
Most of the old lenses are not auto-focus, and they are definitely not weather-proofed :-)

I think old lenses are fun, because they are usually pretty inexpensive, very well built and can give very nice images. You even have the possiblity to use an m42-adapter for even more choices.

But in the end, I think it would be nice if I also had the possibility to buy new lenses from Pentax covering a bit more. Like a DA* macro or supertele. I don't miss those lenses (maybe the macro ), but I know a lot of pentax-shooters are into macro, landscapes and wildlife.

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Thomas Boesgaard Photography
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mindblob/
 
  • smaller
  • weather-resistent
  • cheaper
  • IQ atleast comparable to competition
  • has all the bells and whistles you'd expect from a semi-pro.
it's simple

"smaller" and "wheather resistant" (the others are resistant too you know) don't help you take good pictures at all. every pentax fanboy i've seen is happy about weather and puts this as No1 feature. makes me laugh.

"cheaper" - more like expensive for what it does.

"IQ" - well that's ok in part, but not good enough for present day.

and as usual with pentax the specs don't match real world performance. for example they have auto iso too but does it work properly most of the times? or with flash? nope! and so on. many features look nice on the paper but don't work as they should.

if pentax really wants to sell more they need to drop down the price and go for larger sales than to price their cameras at "competition" levels.
and in the end you get a smaller and weather resistant body so that you can carry a few of extra pancake lenses, with IQ which is more than OK, and specs that actually work if you RTFM, all that cheaper... it looks to me like you want to go and get one now before they are sold out :D (tip: read the manual)...
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common sense is anything but common
 
every pentax fanboy i've seen is happy about weather and puts this as No1 feature. makes me laugh.
B.S. Actually, It's in-body SR, making all lenses SR that's usually listed as #1 feature, and something canon/nikon will never have. Weather sealing is usually only the #1 feature for people who live/work/shoot in rainy, bad weather environments. Atleast on the forums.
"IQ" - well that's ok in part, but not good enough for present day.
Not good enough for present day? Lmfao
 
Now that the rational point have been address, we're down to marketing.

If you buy a K7, you will never have the opportunity to sit on the couch on Sunday afternoon watching football and see a professional using a camera with the same nameplate as yours. It will probably never happen, ever, and you have to be okay with that.

My mother, with her 400D, uses a camera from a professional camera manufacturer to take pictures of her schnauzers. I use a camera by the manufacture of those those quaint Spotmatics that you see in pawn shops.

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Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/jess_ulm
Photolog: http://photos.apt131.com
 
...when editing, my selects of a runner was not when she was running, because it was really hard getting some good shots with af-c. It's not impossible, but it will require more work.
Actually, I was hoping, and looking to see, if this AF-C mode is good enough to capture someone walking towards you. (Like a Bride down the aisle.)
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Thom--
 
Now that the rational point have been address, we're down to marketing.

If you buy a K7, you will never have the opportunity to sit on the couch on Sunday afternoon watching football and see a professional using a camera with the same nameplate as yours. It will probably never happen, ever, and you have to be okay with that.
Exactly. What's more, you'll have to explain to all your friends why you bought a Pentax. Btw, you can bet that they all have a Canon DSLR and they all have hardly taken a picture with film cameras (and if they ever took a picture with film, it was not with a SLR because they don't have a clue of what an exposure time or aperture is). Yet, even if you started taking pictures more or less 20 years before them with SLR that were completely manual, they will sentence: "Why didn't you get a Canon? They are the best!"...

And they will tell you how many megapixels and fps their cameras have, that they saw lots of reviews on the internet saying that that camera is the best and so on.
Then you'll discover that they hardly move the wheel from the Program position.

Someday you'll decide to explain them the relationship between iso, exposure and aperture. Or maybe you'll explain them why choose a given focal length, what perspective is, why choose a given aperture... and they'll say: "geee... you know a lot of things about photography!"...
 

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