Got replacement S90. Here are the results.

Tom Hoots

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Well, if you've been reading my stuff, you'll know that I returned my "first day they were available at Best Buy" S90 about a week ago, because it had a bit more lens distortion than I could handle.

So, after waffling over whether to get another S90 or a G11, and waiting for my local shop (an independent, local shop -- not Best Buy) to get either one in stock, I finally decided to try another S90. Got it last night. So, what are my results so far? Well, let me go over a few things:

1. This one has the little "creak" in the panel behind the flash. My first one didn't. There may be a few other areas that are a bit "flexy" in the new one that I didn't notice in the old one, too. I actually just picked up an SD990IS to add to my collection, and I've got to say that it is far more "tank-like" than the S90, easily. On the other hand, it has a rather slick surface as compared to the S90's more textured surface -- I've dang near dropped the SD990 a couple of times, just like a bar of soap. :-)

2. Optically, it seems to be a bit better. Check out another grid-lines picture:



With a bit less light in the room on this heavy overcast day, I bumped up the levels on this picture a bit, so you could see everything. That said, I think this is quite a bit better. Certainly not "perfect," and I don't think it's possible for a lens to be "perfect." But, this is more like any other camera -- you can see some barrel distortion, but it's not nearly as "noticeable" as the distortion the first S90 had was. And that's the key -- you're just not really going to "notice" anything wrong with this one, as you could with the first one.

3. Pretty much "OK so far" to this point. A creak or two and some "ordinary" lens distortion won't bother me. But, this thing does have a real problem:

The store I bought it from is in a local mall. I had a fully-charged battery and a memory card ready to go, so I just took the S90 to my car, got it out of the box, plugged in the battery and the card, and headed back into the mall and took some sample shots. And HOLY COW -- I was seeing green. Lots of dark green. I wound up going outside, and taking shots of sidewalks, parking lots, and such things, to see if it had some super-wonky colors.

But when I got home, all the shots looked just fine. No huge green cast, or anything remotely close to it. So what the heck??

Well, I got my answer this morning, at the office. I tried taking shots of a map on my cubicle wall, under the typical built-in light above it. Here's a look:



Pretty minimal light, though I actually had the light in the right-hand cabinet turned on, which you don't see here.

At any rate, probably three times out of five, when I held the shutter down to take a macro shot of that map, the on-screen image was very dark and very green or yellowish. Probably one time out of five, I got a very bright, bluish on-screen color. And maybe one time out of five, I got a properly-colored image on the screen. No matter what, though, the pictures all turned out just fine -- in fact, I turned Image Review on, and I could just see how it changed from "wrong to right" as the "live image" gave way to the review image.

It was really as if the "live view" was showing one of the white balance presets -- like "cloudy" to make the dark, greenish or yellowish cast, or one of the fluorescent settings to get the bright blue look. Again, not that it "applied" those settings to the image it captured -- the camera was in AWB -- but it sure looked "on screen" like that.

VERY, very strange. I'm getting tired of taking S90's back, so I'm not sure if this is a show-stopper or not. I didn't notice any problems with any of my other shooting today -- maybe it has to do with fluorescent light. That would explain why the mall lighting triggered it. Though....... The shot of the cubicle was also taken with fluorescent light, so..... Beats me. I suppose I'll make a new thread about it, eventually. In the meantime, I'll try to get a grip on what exactly triggers it.

Otherwise, it seems to be OK as a camera -- here are a few shots:

Red rose:



Indoors at ISO 80:



Also at ISO 80:



Here is that House chamber room again, sweetened with a little bit of levels adjustment, and a bit more color saturation:



And, heres' the S90 at full zoom, at ISO 400:



So, other than the really odd live view color issue, it looks like I could be happy with this S90. I'll have to see what happens with that screen as I move forward from here.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
 
I have had these same strange colors colors appear on the display of my new G11. At first I thought I must have inadvertently selected sepia in the colors menu or there was something radically wrong with the display. Like you, the shots turned out accurate even though the display was definitely incorrect. This has never happened on my G5, or A640. I am wondering if this is typical of these new cameras or if something is radically wrong with my camera.
--
http://jimages.smugmug.com/
 
Go to this article and scroll down to White Balance. It may apply.
http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/canon-s90/s90-hints-tips-issues-links/
Let us know.
Thanks for the link. Here's the text:
White balance - In my experience, the s90 white balance is quite accurate, maybe too accurate at times. When using Automatic White Balance, it may not adjust correctly after previewing images on the LCD if the camera is pointed at something other than the next subject. The solution is to frame the new subject, click the shutter button halfway to reset the white balance, and then press the shutter button half-way again to lock focus and exposure prior to taking the shot.
That hasn't quite been my experience. I was sitting there, right in front of that map on my cubicle wall, half-pressing the shutter to get a focus and everything, then taking bracketed shots. I was repeating it time and time again, for up to a dozen times in a row. Usually I'd get the dark, yellowish screen, sometimes I'd get the bright, bluish screen, and every now and then I'd get an accurate display. But again, I wasn't pointing at anything else but that map, time and time and time again.

Still, though, it seems to be more evidence that the LCD preview can be a bit wonky at times.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
 
I have had these same strange colors colors appear on the display of my new G11. At first I thought I must have inadvertently selected sepia in the colors menu or there was something radically wrong with the display. Like you, the shots turned out accurate even though the display was definitely incorrect. This has never happened on my G5, or A640. I am wondering if this is typical of these new cameras or if something is radically wrong with my camera.
I've never experienced anything like it before, but it would help ease my mind to know that I wasn't the only one noticing such a thing. :-)

Hopefully we'll hear from some other folks who have seen it.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
 
The problem with flourescent light is it hasn't got a fixed color temperature. Its color temperatur oscillates with the double frequency of the main's power. If you shoot a lot under flourescents then exect the occasional strange image. Try it with your dSLR.

;) Fran
 
The second to last shot - the wide angle of the house chamber - is the shot I was looking for. The barrel distortion was there in your original series comparing to LX3 and WX1 and that was my reference.

Like you say, it's still there and it will be there, it's just a reality. I think it's acceptable given pp and other potential capabilities like S90 profile-specific RAW processing a la LX3/SilkyPix, S90/DPP and upcoming S90/Adobe. Honestly, I can't tell if it's better. It almost looks like that shot (2nd to last) is closer (maybe it just captures slightly more of the coffered ceiling, but I'd have to open up the old thread to check - and I'm sure you'd know.

As for the coloration on the LCD and the creaky sounds, sigh that doesn't sound acceptable, especially if the first unit didn't do it. But I don't have the hassle of returning it.

From the link someone else posted in this thread, here is an excerpt re LCD/white balance:

"White balance - In my experience, the s90 white balance is quite accurate, maybe too accurate at times. When using Automatic White Balance, it may not adjust correctly after previewing images on the LCD if the camera is pointed at something other than the next subject. The solution is to frame the new subject, click the shutter button halfway to reset the white balance, and then press the shutter button half-way again to lock focus and exposure prior to taking the shot."
 
Tom,

I just got my S90 late last week - in part based on your test shots. (Thanks!) Happily, I haven't had the odd behaviors you experienced. On the other hand, my Pro 1 had the odd LCD images you describe, even though the pictures looked OK on review. None of my other cameras have done that (S3IS, S5IS, G5, G6, G7, S50, S70, S80, SD800IS, SD870IS, SD950IS, SD880IS, A540, A700, A710IS), so it's not typical of Canons.

You've helped me, I only wish I could help you.
--
Jerry
 
I do hope you're happy with this one. I sure am thrilled with mine.

But, I fear you are building up to another return. Very sad.

You might try the G11. I sure enjoy mine. It's not as small as you had wanted, but it has great low light performance too. The knobs prevent accidental movement better and the flash is rarely in the way. Plus it's built like a tank... it should hold up to your demands better. Moreover, its lens is faster than the S90 after 50 mm. if not sharper throughout its range.

Dave
 
The second to last shot - the wide angle of the house chamber - is the shot I was looking for. The barrel distortion was there in your original series comparing to LX3 and WX1 and that was my reference.

Like you say, it's still there and it will be there, it's just a reality. I think it's acceptable given pp and other potential capabilities like S90 profile-specific RAW processing a la LX3/SilkyPix, S90/DPP and upcoming S90/Adobe. Honestly, I can't tell if it's better. It almost looks like that shot (2nd to last) is closer (maybe it just captures slightly more of the coffered ceiling, but I'd have to open up the old thread to check - and I'm sure you'd know.
Well, one thing to understand is that I've got two different rooms to play with -- the "second to last shot" is of the House chambers, whereas the gridline picture at the beginning is the Senate chambers. Darker wood, different carpet, etc.... :)

Barrel distortion in the vertical plane was quite similar for both cameras; it was the distortion in the horizontal plane -- especially in the top half of the image -- that made the first one unacceptable to me. With it "turning up to the corner" on the left side and "turning down away from the corner" on the right, it gave pictures like this a sense of a "tilt" to them.

This new S90 has an entirely "typical" amount of barrel distortion -- as you say, I can either "live with it" or do something about it. The bottom line is that I can live with this, just fine, whereas I couldn't live with that "tilting" type of distortion from the first one.
As for the coloration on the LCD and the creaky sounds, sigh that doesn't sound acceptable, especially if the first unit didn't do it. But I don't have the hassle of returning it.
To me the creaking is a non-issue -- there's a teensy-tiny little bit of "give" to the body in that one area. And the LCD thing remains to be seen -- maybe I won't see it again, or at the least, it's entirely possible that I just never had the first one in the same kind of lighting condition that caused what I've seen. I'll just keep an eye on it, and talk about it here in the forum. We shall see!

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
 
I do hope you're happy with this one. I sure am thrilled with mine.

But, I fear you are building up to another return. Very sad.
Oh, only if that LCD thing becomes a big deal. I just have to go shooting the things I normally shoot, and see if I wind up seeing much of it or not. And even if I do, it's not really a very big hindrance. It just all remains to be seen.
You might try the G11.
Oh, I considered it, seriously. That's what I've been doing over the past week -- waffling over whether to get another S90, or to dismiss it entirely, and get a G11 instead. In the end, "pocketability" won out over everything. More than anything else, I want a camera "with me" all the time. So, I'll carry on with the S90.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
 
Do you run a Canon camera museum? ;)
Tom,

I just got my S90 late last week - in part based on your test shots. (Thanks!) Happily, I haven't had the odd behaviors you experienced. On the other hand, my Pro 1 had the odd LCD images you describe, even though the pictures looked OK on review. None of my other cameras have done that (S3IS, S5IS, G5, G6, G7, S50, S70, S80, SD800IS, SD870IS, SD950IS, SD880IS, A540, A700, A710IS), so it's not typical of Canons.

You've helped me, I only wish I could help you.
--
Jerry
 
That white balance thing is a shame. Have you called Canon? I'd be interested in what they have to say.

My experience with White Balance was quoted above, but I'll look more closely to see if there is a similar problem. I don't recall if you mentioned you shot on auto, or if you changed the setting to match the lighting. I've used a few of the presets and have found them very accurate. Perhaps, as I opined, the auto white balance is too good for itself.

My s90 seems to be problem free, but if it had some of the problems mentioned I'd return it again until I got a good copy. Though it's a pain being inconvenienced, I think it would be worth it. I happen to think it's a very fine camera and love the image quality and size.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb

s90 BLOG: http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/canon-s90/canon-s90-first-impressions/
 
Hey Tom,

Thanks for the update. From the looks of it, your new S90 is much better than the last one's decentered lens or tilt or whatever that was. No wonky lens correction going on at all, just normal slight barrel distortion remaining. That lcd thing sounds really odd though. I vaguely remember reading about someone here on the forum having that problem in the last couple of years, and ending up having it sent to repair. Sorry, can't remember any more specifics, but I don't think it was a new camera, and it had developed over time. Maybe it's just an oddity of the lcd/wb or something, but it does sound a little suspect. On the other hand, the photos look great... :) Good luck with it, and thanks for sharing.
Best regards,
Mark
--

 
That white balance thing is a shame. Have you called Canon? I'd be interested in what they have to say.
No, I haven't called them yet. I'm planning on "doing more testing" at this point, to see if it's just an odd quirk that rarely happens, or if it's more widespread than that.
My experience with White Balance was quoted above, but I'll look more closely to see if there is a similar problem. I don't recall if you mentioned you shot on auto, or if you changed the setting to match the lighting. I've used a few of the presets and have found them very accurate. Perhaps, as I opined, the auto white balance is too good for itself.
I was shooting in "P" mode, with AWB.
My s90 seems to be problem free, but if it had some of the problems mentioned I'd return it again until I got a good copy. Though it's a pain being inconvenienced, I think it would be worth it. I happen to think it's a very fine camera and love the image quality and size.
Well, we'll see. I'd also like to see if it's more widespread -- I should probably start a new thread about it. Again, I'll keep an eye on it before taking any drastic action.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
 
Thanks for the update. From the looks of it, your new S90 is much better than the last one's decentered lens or tilt or whatever that was. No wonky lens correction going on at all, just normal slight barrel distortion remaining.
Yep, I'm much happier with this one.
That lcd thing sounds really odd though. I vaguely remember reading about someone here on the forum having that problem in the last couple of years, and ending up having it sent to repair. Sorry, can't remember any more specifics, but I don't think it was a new camera, and it had developed over time. Maybe it's just an oddity of the lcd/wb or something, but it does sound a little suspect.
Yep. I'll just keep on trying to get a grip on it, and we'll see what happens.
On the other hand, the photos look great... :) Good luck with it, and thanks for sharing.
Yep, I'm far more concerned about the results, and they appear to be fine. Thanks for your comments!

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
 
Tom, I've experienced this from time to time also with indoor lighting. Also had same issue with the LX3. When the S90 picture is taken however I'm liking the end result of the .jpg created. Although the end result differs from the preview.. the .jpg for whatever reason seems to get it right more often than not.
 

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