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Returned G11...sigh....

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DesertHwy

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Hi,

I really really really wanted to like this camera. Perhaps I expected too much...I don't know.

No real problems just a couple things didn't work for me so perhaps I can save others with an honest as I can be reasoning.

I bought this as a camera to use for landscapes and walking about. I would shoot in RAW. Either Manual, Aperture priority or Shutter priority at 80-200 iso.
And the camera is perfectly capable of doing that ... for some folks..

But for me it's just too many things and it sacrificed ease of use for this. Case in point the selection dial is way too small. I was constantly hitting the center wheel and being taken to flash settings....

It also has a clunky interface when in M mode. If you want to switch between aperture and sutter speed there was a quick select button but it also brought you through the meter pattern options.....not needed fro ever shot.

IQ was decent very good for a P&S but not a rival for even a 5 year old dslr.

I was impressed with it's range and it's faithful rendition of colors. In fact I would rate it's IQ as superb! Just a bit small (10mp..) and when used to my 14mp dslr it made a noticeable difference..which is to be expected.

The build was a non factor. The swivel screen which I didn't want or need became an asset and well done. It was plenty quick for my uses.

I think you'll like this camera better if you want to shoot under a wide variety of conditions and don't mind jpeg. If your trying to capture moments or scenes with little input and let the camera do the work you'll love this camera!

But if your a serious photographer and just want a mini dslr you may want to consider my "issues", which after all are minor and will probably only affect a small percentage of folks here.

Thanks for all the input the past few days I've been here and I'm sure our paths will cross again.

Regards,

Warren
 
Thanks for sharing, Warren. Sorry it didn't work out for you.
DesertHwy said:
Hi,

I really really really wanted to like this camera. Perhaps I expected too much...I don't know.

No real problems just a couple things didn't work for me so perhaps I can save others with an honest as I can be reasoning.

I bought this as a camera to use for landscapes and walking about. I would shoot in RAW. Either Manual, Aperture priority or Shutter priority at 80-200 iso.
And the camera is perfectly capable of doing that ... for some folks..

But for me it's just too many things and it sacrificed ease of use for this. Case in point the selection dial is way too small. I was constantly hitting the center wheel and being taken to flash settings....

It also has a clunky interface when in M mode. If you want to switch between aperture and sutter speed there was a quick select button but it also brought you through the meter pattern options.....not needed fro ever shot.

IQ was decent very good for a P&S but not a rival for even a 5 year old dslr.

I was impressed with it's range and it's faithful rendition of colors. In fact I would rate it's IQ as superb! Just a bit small (10mp..) and when used to my 14mp dslr it made a noticeable difference..which is to be expected.

The build was a non factor. The swivel screen which I didn't want or need became an asset and well done. It was plenty quick for my uses.

I think you'll like this camera better if you want to shoot under a wide variety of conditions and don't mind jpeg. If your trying to capture moments or scenes with little input and let the camera do the work you'll love this camera!

But if your a serious photographer and just want a mini dslr you may want to consider my "issues", which after all are minor and will probably only affect a small percentage of folks here.

Thanks for all the input the past few days I've been here and I'm sure our paths will cross again.

Regards,

Warren
Click to expand...
 
Yep, it's nice that you had the ability to try it out and see if you liked it, and you've brought up several good points which folks should consider. As with most things there are trade offs, and it generally comes down to what's important to YOU.

I've got a G10, and with the introduction of many new small 4/3 cameras I've been considering changing to something with a larger sensor, but I keep coming back to the fact that first of all, I'm not a professional, I do this for fun, and second, while I didn't mind carrying a bag full gear around when I was younger, the all-in-one concept of a camera like the G10/11 has become more and more appealing to me.

Let us know what you end with.
 
DesertHwy said:
IQ was decent very good for a P&S but not a rival for even a 5 year old dslr.
Click to expand...
DesertHwy said:
But if your a serious photographer and just want a mini dslr you may want to consider my "issues", which after all are minor and will probably only affect a small percentage of folks here.
Click to expand...
As good as it is the G11 could never replace the performance of a DSLR...........it only complements a DSLR
--
Regards,
Hank

 
DesertHwy said:
It also has a clunky interface when in M mode. If you want to switch between aperture and sutter speed there was a quick select button but it also brought you through the meter pattern options.....not needed fro ever shot.
Click to expand...
I'm a bit confused about this point (because I don't have a G11 with which to experiment). The manual says that pressing the metering button in M mode switches between adjusting aperture and shutter values. Are you saying that it changes the metering mode too? Or that the button is marked for metering but does double duty for functions not related to its marking?

--
-neil

'The future has already arrived. It's just not widely distributed.'
--William Gibson
 
I totally agree with you Hank
Hank3152 said:
DesertHwy said:
IQ was decent very good for a P&S but not a rival for even a 5 year old dslr.
Click to expand...
Hank3152 said:
But if your a serious photographer and just want a mini dslr you may want to consider my "issues", which after all are minor and will probably only affect a small percentage of folks here.
Click to expand...
As good as it is the G11 could never replace the performance of a DSLR...........it only complements a DSLR
--
Regards,
Hank

Click to expand...
--
Tanglefoot47
Tulalip Wa.
 
neilr_ said:
I'm a bit confused about this point (because I don't have a G11 with which to experiment). The manual says that pressing the metering button in M mode switches between adjusting aperture and shutter values. Are you saying that it changes the metering mode too? Or that the button is marked for metering but does double duty for functions not related to its marking?
Click to expand...
When in M mode pressing the metering button skips thru the shutter speed, aperture or metering options. Select the function you want then change the values with the control wheel.

--
Regards,
Hank

 
Warren,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I just wanted to clarify the major reasons why you returned the camera. From what you've said, it looks like:

1. Ergonomics isn't good --- small dial; easy to accidentally hit a button; kludgey method to change aperature/shutter in M mode.

2. Image is not good enough?

It's the image quality/size issue I'm confused about. What did you want out of the G11? What would have been acceptable image quality for you? What size images and prints were you expecting to use the G11 to create? In other words, how close would the G11 have to get to your DSLR before you would find it acceptable?
  • Marcos
 
DesertHwy said:
Hi,

I really really really wanted to like this camera. Perhaps I expected too much...I don't know.

No real problems just a couple things didn't work for me so perhaps I can save others with an honest as I can be reasoning.

I bought this as a camera to use for landscapes and walking about. I would shoot in RAW. Either Manual, Aperture priority or Shutter priority at 80-200 iso.
And the camera is perfectly capable of doing that ... for some folks..

But for me it's just too many things and it sacrificed ease of use for this. Case in point the selection dial is way too small. I was constantly hitting the center wheel and being taken to flash settings....

It also has a clunky interface when in M mode. If you want to switch between aperture and sutter speed there was a quick select button but it also brought you through the meter pattern options.....not needed fro ever shot.

IQ was decent very good for a P&S but not a rival for even a 5 year old dslr.

I was impressed with it's range and it's faithful rendition of colors. In fact I would rate it's IQ as superb! Just a bit small (10mp..) and when used to my 14mp dslr it made a noticeable difference..which is to be expected.

The build was a non factor. The swivel screen which I didn't want or need became an asset and well done. It was plenty quick for my uses.

I think you'll like this camera better if you want to shoot under a wide variety of conditions and don't mind jpeg. If your trying to capture moments or scenes with little input and let the camera do the work you'll love this camera!

But if your a serious photographer and just want a mini dslr you may want to consider my "issues", which after all are minor and will probably only affect a small percentage of folks here.

Thanks for all the input the past few days I've been here and I'm sure our paths will cross again.

Regards,

Warren
Click to expand...
I'm confused, Warren. First you said IQ was decent for a point & shoot and then, in the following paragraph, you said IQ was superb.

Then you said, I think you'll like this camera better if you want to shoot under a wide variety of conditions and don't mind JPEG.

Didn't your G11 have RAW?
Are you sure you had a G11?
 
I used my G11 this weekend for the first time (except for some quick test shots around the house prior to this weekend). I have to agree with DesertHwy on some of his points, and I'd like to add a couple more gripes. See below...
DesertHwy said:
Case in point the selection dial is way too small. I was constantly hitting the center wheel and being taken to flash settings
Click to expand...
I keep hitting that button too. In addition, when I go to shoot a vertical picture, my thumb keeps hitting the "metering" button (I turn my camera clockwise to shoot vertical). Ugh! I guess I could turn my camera counter clockwise to shoot vertical, but then if I have the turned on then the flash is coming from below the lens.
DesertHwy said:
It also has a clunky interface when in M mode. If you want to switch between aperture and sutter speed there was a quick select button but it also brought you through the meter pattern options.....not needed fro ever shot.
Click to expand...
I agree. I thought this was kind of weird/clunky myself. It took me several minutes to figure out that I needed to actually hit the "metering" button (really intuitive isn't it) to change between aperture/shutter speed when in M mode. And like you said, pressing the "metering" button steps through shutter speed/aperture/metering mode. It wasn't obvious to use this button, but maybe I should have read the manual. But then again, stepping through all 3 items when all I want to adjust is shutter speed and/or aperture seems a bit clunky to me.
DesertHwy said:
IQ was decent very good for a P&S but not a rival for even a 5 year old dslr. I was impressed with it's range and it's faithful rendition of colors. In fact I would rate it's IQ as superb!
Click to expand...
I think I agree to a point. Shooting in standard mode, I feel that the every image needs sharpening and contrast adjustments in PP (I'm using LightRoom mostly). I created a preset in Lightroom to set each image imported from the G11 to start at 25 sharpening and 12 on the black slider. With these adjustments, the images look very good with very little needing to be done afterward. But...

I like to shoot RAW+jpeg and use the RAW as a backup in case I really screw up the in-camera jpeg. I like to use the jpeg images SOOC instead of having to edit raw images all the time (just with my P&S's) or do a bunch of PP'ing. You can adjust contrast/sharpening etc in "My Colors" within the camera's FUNC SET menu, but only when shooting JPEG. If you click over to "RAW+jpeg", the "My Colors" options become disabled and turned off. So, if I want to adjust sharpening/contrast in-camera, I can only shoot JPEGS. Not RAW+JPEG. Kind of annoying, but I could probably learn to live with this.

VIDEO: I've shot a few videos, and I'm not overly impressed. I've shot some in lower light and I noticed that the exposure is very sensitive. I was shooting a scene in the living room and not really moving the camera at all. The lighting wasn't changing either. I hope I can describe this correctly... The camera display, and resulting video file, didn't show a smooth transition of exposure when it decided it needed to change the exposure during recording. It was an abrupt change from darker to lighter and/or lighter to darker. It flipped from dark to light and vice versa several times within a minute long video clip. It's very strange.

Here are some pluses... The high ISO seems to be REALLY good. The built-in flash is very accurate in terms of balancing exposure with the ambient light. The flash white balance is pleasing as well. I love the flip screen, and I love the built-in OVF.

I need to shoot some more with it before I decide if it's a keeper for sure. I really want to like this camera a lot, but these annoyances may ruin it for me.

Anyway, sorry to ramble. Hopefully some of my thoughts/observations are useful to someone.
DesertHwy said:
Regards,

Warren
Click to expand...
 
Marcos Villaroman said:
It's the image quality/size issue I'm confused about. What did you want out of the G11? What would have been acceptable image quality for you? What size images and prints were you expecting to use the G11 to create? In other words, how close would the G11 have to get to your DSLR before you would find it acceptable?
Click to expand...
Hi,

What I experienced was it took more PP to optimize an image where i wanted it. The CA via DPP was NOT automatic. I had about 12 images that had significant high contrast fringing. It was all corrected with DPP but time and effort consuming.

I expected to be able to make prints in the 8x10 range and this was right about where the 10mp file lands at 360ppi.

I doubt any small sensor camera will rival any larger sensor camera. Same as with film; bigger better... I guess to have me 100% totally satisfied it would have to have a full size (35mm film size) sensor. I'll check back in 10 years about that!

I's also like a simpler set of options, not more.

My point in the post wasn't to bash the camera yet gently let folks know what worked form me and more importantly what didn't.

It's a great camera for what it is. But not for me right now.

Warren
 
DesertHwy said:
But if your a serious photographer and just want a mini dslr you may want to consider my "issues", which after all are minor and will probably only affect a small percentage of folks here.
Click to expand...
I'm still not sure why you took this back, then. If you want a "mini SLR", then you need to buy one of the small Olympus DSLR models, or perhaps the Panasonic G-series. But the Canon G11 isn't a DSLR, small or otherwise, and uses a consumer-sized chip, so you can't expect it to be anything other than what it is. What it is however, is about as good as you can get from a consumer model. If you want more than that, then yes, you need to stick to a DSLR.

From your comments earlier it sounds like you actually really liked the image quality a lot from the G11. Maybe I'm different, but I'm willing to put up with an awkward dial or two for the sake of good image quality which is after all, the most important thing (to me, anyway). For the record though, while I debate whether or not to call myself a "pro" or not sometimes, I regularly sell stock images that I've taken with the G10 - and the G11 images are slightly better in quality.
 
I think this in Warren's last message "It's a great camera for what it is. But not for me right now." sums it up nicely. We all have our own needs, desires and priorities.

--

Phil .. Canon EOS 7D, 40D, 20D; G9, SD700IS; Panasonic LX3, ZS3/TZ7; Fuji F31fd.
http://www.pbase.com/phil_wheeler
http://philwheeler.net
 
......if your dslr is sitting home and your g11 is in your pocket..

btw...some guy was looking for a belt case for his g11..i don't suggest that..could be dangerous.... it will pull your pants down around your ankles..
 
OK.
DesertHwy said:
What I experienced was it took more PP to optimize an image where i wanted it. The CA via DPP was NOT automatic. I had about 12 images that had significant high contrast fringing. It was all corrected with DPP but time and effort consuming.
Click to expand...
I've yet to have enough time to go out and take pictures to see how badly the G11 fringes.

I tend to agree: it would be nice if DPP could do more custom corrections automatically. I wished DxO would do a decent job; then got turned off by the DRM and the bugs.
DesertHwy said:
I expected to be able to make prints in the 8x10 range and this was right about where the 10mp file lands at 360ppi.

I's also like a simpler set of options, not more.
Click to expand...
OK. So would it be far to say that in the G11 you wanted acceptable results without having to result to time consuming post processing?

Ideally to give folk an idea what you consider to be unacceptable fringing that required post processing effort, you would post a few images; but, I can understand why that might be too much trouble (i.e., I don't bother posting images). I need to look for it myself to see if how frequent it occurs and whither or not I'd be inclined to take the trouble of correcting for it. Most often, for what I use the images for, I don't bother with such corrections. I figure, I can always go back and put more effort in processing if I need to.

I think I can understand a bit more of what you were getting at as to why you returned the camera.
  • Marcos
 
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