How do I get macro (got four lenses to choose from)?

Hi all - I need an advice or two since I've considered starting to shoot macro with my 40D (macro photo again - spent some time fooling around as a teenager with a Nikon FE2 and a set of closeup lenses).

I was planning to get the 500D closeup lens in 77mm for my EF-S 17-55, and mavbe reuse it on my EF-S 10-22 sharing same filter size for wide angle effects.
However I've now learned that 500D should go on a tele (only?) - right?

I've also got the EF-S 55-250 and a Sigma 30 1.4 EX. I'll like to shot macro using one of my three zooms, and are not in the market for a real macro lens (just yet).

What should I do - buy a 250D or 500D closeup lens for my 55-250? If so how close do I get and what ratio do I acheive at the short distance, 1:1? Will the 500D make sense on my 17-55 and 10-22 after all? Could an extension tube be a feasible alternative?

Finally what about AF and IS, will I loose these features in the process of adding the extra gear. I so, if can probably do without (as I did as a teenager with my Nikkor lenses..).

Well, at lot of questions - you don't have to aim for answers to all of them - but I'll like a good advice on how to ultilize my lenses in best way.
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Best regards,
Hans Christian

Hans Christian S said:

I was planning to get the 500D closeup lens in 77mm for my EF-S 17-55, and mavbe reuse it on my EF-S 10-22 sharing same filter size for wide angle effects.
However I've now learned that 500D should go on a tele (only?) - right?

Click to expand...

Yes, the problem is that the +2 dioptre 500D doesn't have enough effect on shorter lenses. The 17-55 has a fairly poor maximum magnification of 0.17x and the 500D will improve it by only a small amount. And as you've probably learned already, you can't buy a 77mm 250D.

One possibility is the Marumi DHG Achromat which is available as a +3 dioptre or a +5 dioptre in the 77 mm size you need. I have the +3 in 67mm to fit my 70-200/4L IS and can vouch for its quality, but I haven't tried it on a shorter lens.

Hans Christian S said:

I've also got the EF-S 55-250 and a Sigma 30 1.4 EX. I'll like to shot macro using one of my three zooms, and are not in the market for a real macro lens (just yet).

Click to expand...

I don't know about the Sigma, but short lenses tend to be not very good for macro as you have to work very close.

I've tried the 250D and 500D on the 55-250. At first I thought the results were going to be poor, because looking through the viewfinder I could immediately see quite bad halation. However once stopped down to realistic macro apertures - say f/11 - the problem disappears. Image quality is better at 150-200 mm although you do lose some magnification of course.

Hans Christian S said:

What should I do - buy a 250D or 500D closeup lens for my 55-250? If so how close do I get and what ratio do I acheive at the short distance, 1:1? Will the 500D make sense on my 17-55 and 10-22 after all? Could an extension tube be a feasible alternative?

Click to expand...

It's possible to use an extension tube on the 17-55 at 55 mm, but the working distance (between lens and subject) is just a few mm - very unsatisfactory.

Extension tubes work on the 55-250, with certain limitations. Zoom lenses don't operate normally with tubes - focusing changes the zoom ratio, and zooming alters the focus. It's all highly counter-intuitive. However there is a solution, which is to use MF and focus by moving the camera, and optically that does give excellent results.

Hans Christian S said:

Finally what about AF and IS, will I loose these features in the process of adding the extra gear. I so, if can probably do without (as I did as a teenager with my Nikkor lenses..).

Click to expand...

AF and IS are both hit-and-miss for macro, especially with these make-do-and-mend techniques.

So what would I do in your situation? Tubes work well but they are far from convenient - no use at all if you have to react quickly to a photo opportunity. Supplementary close-up lenses are quicker to fit, give much better working distances, and maintain the full aperture of the lens, but you need different sizes and strengths for different lenses and the good ones are very expensive. For the price of a 77mm one, you are half way to the cost of a 60 mm macro. I'd buy the macro, if you possibly can.

If the macro lens is out of the question, your 55-250 gives you the best options, especially as the 58 mm thread makes the close-up lenses more affordable.

you won't lose autofocus, and manual focus by leaning back and forth works well too.

I don't do the math on the distance/closeness, but I've used both a tube and a macro filter combined to get really close on my 24-105L. You do lose some light though. Flash works fine. Sunlight also. If you can find a filter in a store you can try it out. I think you get a larger focal range with tubes over the filter. All fun to play with. 55mm shouldnt be that bad to try, I loved using my 70-200 also. I figure why not use the best glass you have!
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http://netgarden.smugmug.com/

Here's a link to a thread with some sample pics using the 55-250 with the 500D (58mm version). I've been pretty happy with the 55-250 and 500D combination.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=33170481

-Bill

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/billsphotos/

netgarden said:

you won't lose autofocus,

Click to expand...

Autofocus will function, but whether it will operate correctly is another matter. Using tubes reduces the effective aperture, which is rather like the situation when using a non-reporting TC on an f/5.6 lens - the camera believes it has enough aperture for AF to work correctly but in fact it doesn't.

Add to this the unreliability of AF for macro generally, and the result is that success when using AF with tubes is somewhat lens dependent, subject dependent and generally hit-and-miss.

netgarden said:

and manual focus by leaning back and forth works well too.

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It does, and it's often easier than using the focusing ring, even with a USM/HSM lens with full-time manual focusing.

I sometimes find myself grabbing a quick focus using AF, adjusting using the focusing ring (FTM is essential for this) then fine-tuning by moving back and forth. All three focusing methods for one shot, but it's a good technique when you need to react quickly.

[snip]

netgarden said:

I think you get a larger focal range with tubes over the filter.

Click to expand...

That's true, and it is possibly the biggest single problem with using close-up lenses. You have to balance this against the other factors - I prefer to use a close up lens with my 70-200/4L IS because focusing and zoom operate normally, and the zoom gives me an alternative way to adjust framing; on the other hand tubes are usually more flexible with the 300/4L IS because of the larger focal range.

[snip]

netgarden said:

I figure why not use the best glass you have!

Click to expand...

I don't think that works in this case. As a bare lens the 17-55/2.8 is way ahead of the 55-250 in many respects, but I would choose the 55-250 every time for use with a close-up lens. Stopped down for typical macro use I doubt if you would see any difference in IQ.

Hans Christian S said:

I'll like to shot macro using one of my three zooms, and are not in the market for a real macro lens (just yet).

Click to expand...

You should be able to get a second-hand macro lens for the price of a new close up filter IMO. Now with the 100 mm IS macro just released, there will be plenty of "old" 100 mm macro lenses for sale I guess

The older MF only lenses are good as well, I have AF macro lenses but the focusing motor gets used only when shooting non-macro stuff...

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Marek
http://galerie.kolas.cz/

EF-S 55-250 and 500D is a good combo but as otehrs stated you might be better off saving for a dedicated macro. Even with the +2 diopter I don't think you achieve 1:1 magnification. Another alternative to consider is reverse mounting an old manual lens. 50mm FD lenses seem to be around 1:1 magnifcation though for some reason the 1.4 offer more magnification than the 1.8 versions. And any lens under a focal length of 50mm offers greater than 1:1 with a 24mm being almost 2:1. The advantages to this set-up are cost(you can get a reverse ring and FD lens for easily under $100USD if not $50) and you can use your onboard flash or a hot shoe mounted one. With the 55-250 fully extended and with other macros I've noticed the lens will cast a shadow so you need bracket set-up for your flash. you can even use your sigma 30mm lens reversed but first you need to attach it normally, then set aperture and hold the DOF button while removing the lens to reverse it. I find it too much of a hassle and prefer manual lenses. It's not without it's downsides though as DOF is small and working distance is but a few inches but for the price it's hard to beat, especially at greater than 1:1 magnification.

I was happy with the close focus distance on the 55-250, so I imagine that you would get good results with the 500D attatached. the 58mm version is a heck of a lot cheaper than the 77mm also. I would forget about trying to use either of your wide zooms. I am also a fan of the 50mmf2.5 macro. though only 1:2, it gives great results. dont forget the crop factor and also your 40D has plenty of pixels, so you can crop to 1:1 or better. you should be able to pick up a used 50 macro for $150-200.

this was shot with the 55-250 with no close up lens



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http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonyadcock/

Thank you all of you for some very competent advices! I'll now take my time rethinking my urge for a 'new macro thing' for my lenses.

As a Dane I'm used to spend a lot of $ (= DKK) for equipment, and since my brother was going for NYC I became eager to expand my collection of gadgets ;-) We'll hold the horses for now. Not only US$ meet problems these days, £ is also weak and goods from with EU will not be taxed entering DK (VAT 25% + import fee).

Could be I'll eventually decide for a closeup lens for my 55-250 (maybe a Marumi DHG Achromat - thx. Steve for your thorough pros et. cons!) - but now also likely that I'll bite the bullet and acquire a macro lens (likely EF-S 60 over EF 100 due to my 1,6x 40D - however price/2nd hand offers might determine my final decision). Even before that my wife will bring me a 7D (but I have to pay myself!) - she's also taking a trip to USA later this year..!

In any case I now substantially wiser on macro options than a few days thanks to above postings!
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Best regards,
Hans Christian

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..a used EF-S 60mm macro, which I've just bought today. Completely as new, even though I'm the 3rd owner. Actually I might be the winner...?!

The credit of going full macro via dedicated lens is going to you guys.
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Best regards,
Hans Christian

Congratulation Hans, on your new lens and entering the new area of photography. Please post some images in the Weekly Macro/Close-up thread.

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Gautam