Need a protective filter for my new 24-70

Bad advice from VRII. Lots of things that damage lens coatings can get on you lens, from salt water, to certain types of aerosols, etc. Hoya filters are good, but impossible to clean. B+W are the best. Get a good one and use it all the time.
 
Bad advice from VRII. Lots of things that damage lens coatings can get on you lens, from salt water, to certain types of aerosols, etc.
I like Boogeyman Marketers like you, because it's easy to use science and logic to remove your masks and expose you as frauds.

salt water?, what percentage of the U.S. population live beach front? I'll be generous and give you 5%. Of the remaining 95% how many will visit the beach at least twice per year? I'll be generous and give you another 5%, so the salt water excuse is useless for 90% of the population.

Your other lame excuse: "certain types of aerosols", hmmm sounds slimy and vague, let me ask you do you walk around 24 hrs per day with an oxygen mask or a surgeon's mask? Why not? if these aerosols are powerful enough to destroy lens coatings what do you thing they will do to soft tissue like your lungs? and you're exposed to it 24/7 , suddenly the boogeyman looks like carrot top.

What does Nikon say about filters?

"To ensure the highest quality image we would not recommend using any filters on the lens unless you are shooting around salt water spray or heavy, blowing sand."

http://support.nikontech.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/15865/session/L3NpZC9JeUJXYnJLag%3D%3D/kw/protective%20filter/p/81/r_id/116678/sno/1

And to do a little dance on the grave of yet another dead boogeyman, here's Thom Hogan's take, 14-24mm F/2.8 No Filters



" Practice what you preach : D3, 14-24mm at 14mm. Many of you know my take on "protective filters" for a lens: they cause more problems than they solve, thus I say don't use them. I don't buy the "lenses need protection" theory, and here's proof that I don't
 
This picture proves nothing. You should have shown a shot of the lens front element AFTER the picture was taken. Why didn't you?

As far as Mr. Hogan's opinion, while his advice may be sound for many people, I suspect his budget for lenses is far greater than many of the people who read these forums who may struggle to buy one or two a year, if that. I also suspect in his long career, he's replaced a lens or two because of damage.

You are telling these people in effect that the front element on a camera lens will never sustain damage and/or that if it did sustain damage, ii would have no effect on image quality.

That's correct to a certain degree. As long as you keep your light source behind you, a surprising large amount of damage will not show up.

However, the dirty little secret the anti-filter crowd won't tell you is that situation can change dramatically when the light is coming from the side or the front.

The bottom line is, when it comes to filters there's no right or wrong decision.

However, if you decide to use it and find it's degrading the quality of your image, you can always remove it.

But once you hose your lens, you're screwed.
 
This picture proves nothing. You should have shown a shot of the lens front element AFTER the picture was taken. Why didn't you?
From the Author: "Some of you are cringing and expecting that I toasted my expensive lens. No such thing. After a bit of immediate field cleaning, the front element of my 14-24mm looks like new."

http://www.bythom.com
You are telling these people in effect that the front element on a camera lens will never sustain damage and/or that if it did sustain damage, ii would have no effect on image quality.
No. I'm not saying that, you are saying it , what I'm stating is that filters offer no protection.

If you are truly afraid of flying objects, appearing out of nowhere when you're taking a photo inside a museum, at a dinner party, at a studio shoot, or 99% of most normal shooting conditions, then you should wear safety goggles 24/7, because anything that can fly and break a lens, has, twice the probability of striking your eyes, and sending you to a hospital. And I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that you don't walk around 24/7 with safety goggles.

So in real life under 99% of most shooting conditions the probabilities that something will damage your lens are microscopic, but fear mongers hang on to that microscopic fear and magnify it in order to make you buy something you don't need.
That's correct to a certain degree. As long as you keep your light source behind you, a surprising large amount of damage will not show up. However, the dirty little secret the anti-filter crowd won't tell you is that situation can change dramatically when the light is coming from the side or the front.
There's no secret, if you have a large gash in your front element and shoot directly into light you'll get tons of flare. How likely is it to get a large gash in your front lens element under normal shooting conditions? Less than 1%, how likely that a "protective filter" will prevent it = 0%
The bottom line is, when it comes to filters there's no right or wrong decision.
Hello, if filters were free, your statement above may hold water, but when you're parting with $50, $70 or $100 for something that does nothing, you betcha there is a right and a wrong decision.
However, if you decide to use it and find it's degrading the quality of your image, you can always remove it.
Well that's foolish, because you can only tell once you get home and view them in your screen, at which point you can't jump in time machine and go back to your kid's birthday celebration to retake the photos.

Bottom line, show me some data, some science, in stead of your boogeyman marketing. What is the PSI Impact resistance of a 77mm B+W filter? How about the Abrassion Tolerance? what is the maximum weight lens it's designed to fit?

Go find some independent measurable protective data and then we'll tack, until then, see you October 31st, I'll be giving out M&M's and hoya filters.
 
Dropped a F90X and 28-70 f3.5 700 (vertical fee in a rucsac) - Olympus XA flattened as was everything else in the sac . . except for the Nikon + lens - front filter shattered though, as did the lens cover . . . .

. . . . main reason I have filters is to protect against the salty sea air on the NE coast of England.

Did lots of (unscientific) tests with / without filters and failed to induce any flare / reflections so I'm happy to continue with a typical filter costing about 5% of that of the lens.
 
Hi there, it's me, the original poster.

All I was saying is I recently found my 12-24 with a small crack / chip in the filter. It appears to me that if I did not have the filter on this lens would now be at Nikon with a $100 charge.

I understand some do and some don't but I am confident I will.

As far as a high end professional that urges people to not use filters, If I had all the high end gear I wanted I might not use filters too... I am just a poor photographer that saved his pennies for a 24-70 and will choose to use a high end B+W filter... I think thats fair. Heck, if I have a really important shoot I can even take it off.

--
Rich
http://www.richbaum.smugmug.com
 
Proparoo wrote:

I am just a poor photographer that saved his pennies for a 24-70 and will choose to use a high end B+W filter... I think thats fair. Heck, if I have a really important shoot I can even take it off.

Before you plunk down your saved pennies on a pricey B+W filter I would make sure a cheapy doesnt vignette.. If I remember correctly my BW Cpl vignetts at the wide end on 24-70

------------------------
Best
Shaun
http://shaun.zenfolio.com
 
Proparoo

it is 100% your right to use anything you'd like, I've never had a problem with that, it is absolutely your right.

My beef is with Filter companies, that use FUD, and other slimy tactics in order to scare consumers into buying "protective" filters. unfortunately some of these consumers, believe these urban myths and spread them like gospel, that is specifically what I'm challenging. To date there hasn't been a single scientific study to demonstrate any protective qualities whatsoever. Let me provide you a short list of items that cost under $100 and have tons of scientific data to back up their safety claims.
  • Safety Goggles
  • Bicycle Helmets
  • Steel Toe Boots
  • Baseball Helmets
  • Condoms
So if you weren't into photography, would you buy any "protective" stuff from any company that can not scientifically back up any protection claims?
Hi there, it's me, the original poster.

All I was saying is I recently found my 12-24 with a small crack / chip in the filter. It appears to me that if I did not have the filter on this lens would now be at Nikon with a $100 charge.

I understand some do and some don't but I am confident I will.

As far as a high end professional that urges people to not use filters, If I had all the high end gear I wanted I might not use filters too... I am just a poor photographer that saved his pennies for a 24-70 and will choose to use a high end B+W filter... I think thats fair. Heck, if I have a really important shoot I can even take it off.

--
Rich
http://www.richbaum.smugmug.com
 
Some fools even put their cameras in cases . . . .
 
From the Author: "Some of you are cringing and expecting that I toasted my expensive lens. No such thing. After a bit of immediate field cleaning, the front element of my 14-24mm looks like new."
this time maybe. Would you guarantee that'll be the result every time?
No. I'm not saying that, you are saying it , what I'm stating is that filters offer no protection.
Which is an incorrect statement, as proven by an inspection of any filter that's been on a hard used lens for a period of time.
If you are truly afraid of flying objects, appearing out of nowhere when you're taking a photo inside a museum, at a dinner party, at a studio shoot, or 99% of most normal shooting conditions,
Sure, if that's normal for you. Others of us carry and use our gear 24/7 in whatever conditions nature or our environment throws at us. Two weeks ago I was shooting at a dusty rodeo, today in a rainstorm. I can't remember the last time I shot in a museum ( maybe the King Tut exhibit a decade ago) or a studio.
So in real life under 99% of most shooting conditions the probabilities that something will damage your lens are microscopic, but fear mongers hang on to that microscopic fear and magnify it in order to make you buy something you don't need.
No son, in your "real life" that may be the case.
That's correct to a certain degree. As long as you keep your light source behind you, a surprising large amount of damage will not show up. However, the dirty little secret the anti-filter crowd won't tell you is that situation can change dramatically when the light is coming from the side or the front.
There's no secret, if you have a large gash in your front element and shoot directly into light you'll get tons of flare. How likely is it to get a large gash in your front lens element under normal shooting conditions? Less than 1%, how likely that a "protective filter" will prevent it = 0%
Wrong again. if you had a filter, it would in most cases take the hit and caqn be replaced for a couple of dollars.
However, if you decide to use it and find it's degrading the quality of your image, you can always remove it.
Well that's foolish, because you can only tell once you get home and view them in your screen,
That's just silly. If you can't look through the viewfinder and get a fair idea of any problems then this line of work doesn't fit your pistol, son.
 
Some fools even put their cameras in cases . . . .
Not fools at all, actually quite smart, cases have been tested and there is extensive proof of their protective value :-) I'd like to see the filter companies run similar tests ;-
You said in a previous post that you only use your gear in carefully controlled and protected environments.

Take you gear out in the street for six months and you'll get all the "test results" You need.

Right now I've got a filter on a lens that's only two months old and it's already got two small pits. If I didn't have the filter, those pits would have been on the lens.
 
this time maybe. Would you guarantee that'll be the result every time?
I can guarantee you that filters offer zero protection :-)
Sure, if that's normal for you. Others of us carry and use our gear 24/7 in whatever conditions nature or our environment throws at us. Two weeks ago I was shooting at a dusty rodeo, today in a rainstorm. I can't remember the last time I shot in a museum ( maybe the King Tut exhibit a decade ago) or a studio.
You are too funny, shooting in a dusty rodeo or in a rainstorm is not normal conditions for 99% of D-SLRS owners and if you're going to be there "24/7" you need "GEAR AND LIFE INSURANCE" not a 77mm thin piece of glass, I can't stop laughing at how ridiculous your claims for "protective" filters are.......tell me how is the glass filter keeping the water out of your entire lens and camera during the rainstorms? :-) Too funny
Wrong again. if you had a filter, it would in most cases take the hit and caqn be replaced for a couple of dollars.
Replaced for a couple of bucks?? Ha, Ha, please post a link for all filter owners to buuy these filters for two bucks, you are a hoot!
Well that's foolish, because you can only tell once you get home and view them in your screen,
That's just silly. If you can't look through the viewfinder and get a fair idea of any problems then this line of work doesn't fit your pistol, son.
Through your viewfinder? what are you using for filters? aluminum foil? You are indeed using two dollar filters
 
You said in a previous post that you only use your gear in carefully controlled and protected environments.

Take you gear out in the street for six months and you'll get all the "test results" You need.

Right now I've got a filter on a lens that's only two months old and it's already got two small pits. If I didn't have the filter, those pits would have been on the lens.
Listen newsbadge, instead of telling us about your fishing stories, get some scientific data, I specifically mentioned it in my post from yesterday, but convinniently you overlooked it and instead you decided to talk about............rodeos....tipical smoke screen distractions to avoid confronting the truth.

Here are some links I posted earlier for pelican cases, go find something similar for your beloved filters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC2KnidV_Ww&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgEefnTeOGU
 
You are too funny, shooting in a dusty rodeo or in a rainstorm is not normal conditions for 99% of D-SLRS owners and if you're going to be there "24/7" you need "GEAR AND LIFE INSURANCE" not a 77mm thin piece of glass, I can't stop laughing at how ridiculous your claims for "protective" filters are.......tell me how is the glass filter keeping the water out of your entire lens and camera during the rainstorms? :-) Too funny
I mean this with all due respect son, but you seem to have a very narrow and pampered idea of what photography is all about and how cameras are used.

Just because you never take your camera out of a controlled environment does not mean that 99% of D-SLRS owners share your limited photographic experiences.

I'm not saying this to be "mean" son, but if you really do believe that 99 percent of dslr owners are only using their cameras to shoot trips to the museum, dinner parties, and studio work, then you're not the right person to be giving advice on the use of filters in real world photography.

That's the problem with so many of these discussions. There are too many people who simply repeat what they read somewhere, without the experience to back it up, and they end up giving bad advice to people who don't have the background to recognize the harm in it.

Again, I'm not saying this to be nasty, but this 99% of yours is just plain crazy talk.
 
You are too funny, shooting in a dusty rodeo or in a rainstorm is not normal conditions for 99% of D-SLRS owners and if you're going to be there "24/7" you need "GEAR AND LIFE INSURANCE" not a 77mm thin piece of glass, I can't stop laughing at how ridiculous your claims for "protective" filters are.......tell me how is the glass filter keeping the water out of your entire lens and camera during the rainstorms? :-) Too funny
I mean this with all due respect son, but you seem to have a very narrow and pampered idea of what photography is all about and how cameras are used.

Just because you never take your camera out of a controlled environment does not mean that 99% of D-SLRS owners share your limited photographic experiences.

I'm not saying this to be "mean" son, but if you really do believe that 99 percent of dslr owners are only using their cameras to shoot trips to the museum, dinner parties, and studio work, then you're not the right person to be giving advice on the use of filters in real world photography.

That's the problem with so many of these discussions. There are too many people who simply repeat what they read somewhere, without the experience to back it up, and they end up giving bad advice to people who don't have the background to recognize the harm in it.

Again, I'm not saying this to be nasty, but this 99% of yours is just plain crazy talk.
Newsbadge, thanks for the cute lecture, the fishing stories, rainstorms and for sharing your personal experience as a rodeo clown. That's all nice and cute, but you have yet to provide a single shred of scientific evidence to back up any protection claims, don't get me wrong your rodeo stories are cute, but fairy tales don't count as science.

So for the third time do you have any independent scientific data to back up any of the "protection" claims or are you going to tell us about the time you were trapped in the belly of a whale for six months and a Hoya filter saved your life?
 
I did a little test years ago, shot the same scene with and without a filter, just to see if I could tell without looking at the image number. Guess what? I couldn't.

You might think I have poor eyesight, no, I'm never happy with consumer lenses and shoot regularly with my 24-70 and 105 macro.

So why not use one? If they never really get to do their job, then your lucky. One day they might and save you from a hefty repair bill.

Isn't is worth 5 minutes to test for yourself?
 
I did a little test years ago, shot the same scene with and without a filter, just to see if I could tell without looking at the image number. Guess what? I couldn't.
Guess what, I can see differences
So why not use one? If they never really get to do their job, then your lucky.
Classic pitch, the other popular pitch: "If it doesn't hurt and you can't tell the difference, just play it safe and stick a filter in it"

Again both nice pitches, based on specious reasoning :-) , zero logic, zero data, zero science, $100 please :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2zXSaDFi7o
Isn't is worth 5 minutes to test for yourself?
I have tested them, usually high quality Nikon filters and the difference is very obvious to my eyes, even Nikon tech support advices against filters for best IQ

http://support.nikontech.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/15865/session/L3NpZC9JeUJXYnJLag%3D%3D/kw/protective%20filter/p/81/r_id/116678/sno/1
 
Anyway VRII, which protective bag to you put your camera in? And what scientific evidence do you have that it isn't a waste of money? Oh . . . and what scientific proof have you got that filters degrade a photograph?
I can see differences
is a sarcastic joke I presume for such a technical wizard as yourself?
 

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