davoe
Leading Member
Nope it was the rabbits
-
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miick
Well-known member
I don't quite see the point of your questions.
Are you saying that under a for-profit health care system ....
1) ALL girls are getting the best vaccination against various sexual diseases?
2) Tests ALL women for certain cancers
3) Does advanced MRI's/CAT scans every patient who suffer possible head injuries
Please, bother to answer....
Are you saying that under a for-profit health care system ....
1) ALL girls are getting the best vaccination against various sexual diseases?
2) Tests ALL women for certain cancers
3) Does advanced MRI's/CAT scans every patient who suffer possible head injuries
Please, bother to answer....
davoe
Leading Member
firstly Ill say all my info on the American healcare system comes from movies such as Michael mores Sicko and Denzel Washington in John Q
as well as a few docos showing how bad even the private health carer is over there being run as a decline everthing to meet targets
but the mere fact it has movies made about it surely proves its a dead duck system
In Australia out healthcare has gone backwards since i recall in the last 20 years but when anyone complains the old catchcry - ":it could be worse, look at America " comes out
as well as a few docos showing how bad even the private health carer is over there being run as a decline everthing to meet targets
but the mere fact it has movies made about it surely proves its a dead duck system
In Australia out healthcare has gone backwards since i recall in the last 20 years but when anyone complains the old catchcry - ":it could be worse, look at America " comes out
onlooker
Veteran Member
Not that I want to get into a political discussion, but this is a logical fallacy. Just the fact that someone says it's bad, doesn't make it so. It only proves that people with an agenda to change it have the means and connections to make movies about it.
I will leave it at that.
mamallama
Forum Pro
mamallama
Forum Pro
The US health care is good if you can afford it. Problem is that the insurance companies like US Healthcare is driving up the cost of insurance that many cannot afford it. As a result a serious medical mishalp can bankrupt a hard working family.
Also these health care insurance companies are controlling who are insurable (pre-existing conditions) and what medical procedure they will approve. Yet, they are making record profits.
--mamallama
Also these health care insurance companies are controlling who are insurable (pre-existing conditions) and what medical procedure they will approve. Yet, they are making record profits.
--mamallama
spbStan
Senior Member
Actually more current lists are even less flattering to the US. Iceland does have economic problems but still has a better health care system, better education and less poverty, drop out rate crime, better infant mortality etc....
Norway is a good place to raise a family, great schools, high stability, low crime, clean, and a bit boring for some who like to live on the edge everyday wondering what small or major incident will destroy their entire life as is the case in the US. There is nothing a person in the US has that really is his. A home can be taken away for 10,000 reasons, liberty is just a word there, not a reality.
The US is in serious trouble and most people do not realize it there. It starts with a system that given super-citizenship rights to large corporations which in turn control every aspect of policy and quality of life regardless of desire of the people. But the people's desires are determined by the same media and system that is controlled by the large corporations. Even the topics of discussion are framed and set forth by corporate media. No law or regulation can be enacted in the US unless consented to by those corporations. The argument over health care is framed and the choices available are there solely because they benefit and were approved by large corporations.
As long as individuals have only human citizenship they can never counter the influence on the government that corporations have. That is a very big difference between countries with high quality of life such as all of Scandinavia and most of Europe etc and countries controlled by either oligarchs or their companies which always have lower quality of life.
Another related but serious problem is that a very large portion of the population of the US is seriously and stunningly dumb. I've visited 86 countries and never have witnessed so many people who have no clue about the world and have so little regard for fact. The majority of Americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, or that ghosts are real, yet an equal number do not believe the US landed men on the moon. Not 1 in 1000 could name the capitols of 20 countries. A recent polls should that of high school seniors only 23% could name the number of states in the US. And those are the smart one, the ones that did not drop out of school.
The US can only live on credit because it produces little the rest of the world wants. I certainly was not that way as recently as 20 years years ago. But what can the US do no except make wars and even then not very effectively. A few thousand ill-equipped rebels, lightly armed nationalists in Iraq stopped the mighty US military, and it is happening again in Afghanistan, and lets not bring up Viet Nam where stone age nationalists defeated the full strength of the US.
The country is really not governable due to corruption and dumbness, it has no products to sell except natural resources and is being outclassed by every tech savvy country out there in innovations, China graduates more engineers each year than exist totally in the US. India is close. The US is living in past glory and has no substance to support itself or pay its own way. The major creditor nations are set to establish a new reserve currency to get away from the dollar, when that happens, one of the last assets the US had not bankrupted will also be lost. Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, Venezuela and other oil producers are holding talks right now to move all oil payments to a new currency, a basket of solvent sovereign currencies to protect themselves from when the dollar tanks which is has to do.
All this comes back to Norway, and other reasonable, smart, quality societies that live within their means, do not create wars for economic reasons, takes care of their citizens and place human rights above those of corporations and churches.
The changes needed to make the US viable again can't be done, it is too late to wrest power from the corporations and it is too late to learn how to produce things again, or how to be educated and aware.
My family has lived there decades before there was a USA and I am the first one in 300 years to abandon it as a lost cause and migrated far away.
--
Stan
St Petersburg Russia
Norway is a good place to raise a family, great schools, high stability, low crime, clean, and a bit boring for some who like to live on the edge everyday wondering what small or major incident will destroy their entire life as is the case in the US. There is nothing a person in the US has that really is his. A home can be taken away for 10,000 reasons, liberty is just a word there, not a reality.
The US is in serious trouble and most people do not realize it there. It starts with a system that given super-citizenship rights to large corporations which in turn control every aspect of policy and quality of life regardless of desire of the people. But the people's desires are determined by the same media and system that is controlled by the large corporations. Even the topics of discussion are framed and set forth by corporate media. No law or regulation can be enacted in the US unless consented to by those corporations. The argument over health care is framed and the choices available are there solely because they benefit and were approved by large corporations.
As long as individuals have only human citizenship they can never counter the influence on the government that corporations have. That is a very big difference between countries with high quality of life such as all of Scandinavia and most of Europe etc and countries controlled by either oligarchs or their companies which always have lower quality of life.
Another related but serious problem is that a very large portion of the population of the US is seriously and stunningly dumb. I've visited 86 countries and never have witnessed so many people who have no clue about the world and have so little regard for fact. The majority of Americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, or that ghosts are real, yet an equal number do not believe the US landed men on the moon. Not 1 in 1000 could name the capitols of 20 countries. A recent polls should that of high school seniors only 23% could name the number of states in the US. And those are the smart one, the ones that did not drop out of school.
The US can only live on credit because it produces little the rest of the world wants. I certainly was not that way as recently as 20 years years ago. But what can the US do no except make wars and even then not very effectively. A few thousand ill-equipped rebels, lightly armed nationalists in Iraq stopped the mighty US military, and it is happening again in Afghanistan, and lets not bring up Viet Nam where stone age nationalists defeated the full strength of the US.
The country is really not governable due to corruption and dumbness, it has no products to sell except natural resources and is being outclassed by every tech savvy country out there in innovations, China graduates more engineers each year than exist totally in the US. India is close. The US is living in past glory and has no substance to support itself or pay its own way. The major creditor nations are set to establish a new reserve currency to get away from the dollar, when that happens, one of the last assets the US had not bankrupted will also be lost. Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, Venezuela and other oil producers are holding talks right now to move all oil payments to a new currency, a basket of solvent sovereign currencies to protect themselves from when the dollar tanks which is has to do.
All this comes back to Norway, and other reasonable, smart, quality societies that live within their means, do not create wars for economic reasons, takes care of their citizens and place human rights above those of corporations and churches.
The changes needed to make the US viable again can't be done, it is too late to wrest power from the corporations and it is too late to learn how to produce things again, or how to be educated and aware.
My family has lived there decades before there was a USA and I am the first one in 300 years to abandon it as a lost cause and migrated far away.
--
Stan
St Petersburg Russia
Torgeir Jensen
Forum Enthusiast
Yes we pay tax, the more your income is the more you pay. We think that is just way to secure ourselfs and our neighbors. The result is a more equal society, less conflicts, less criminality more safety to all.
Here you raise a very fundamental question. I do not agree with everything my government does, but since we live in a democracy we are accepting the difference in opinions and cast our votes at the elections.
I agree with you 100%
--
life is raw
twonker
Veteran Member
Wasn't there a war between Norway and Sweden back in the 19th century? And I read somewhere there was nearly another when Norway declared independence in 1905?
Kind reagrds
Alistair
--
http://www.301images.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/twonker/
mamallama
Forum Pro
Nothing is "free". Just as you had to pay for your digital camera, you have to pay for the community you live in. That what taxes do. Whether you think your government is giving you your money's worth is another matter.
If it bothers you that much try to find a better place where the government gives you what you consider your money's worth, if you can. If not, work for electing people who do. In the US, it's the democratic (small d) way according to the Constitution. "Love it or leave it", as the saying goes.
--mamallama
mamallama
Forum Pro
I don't see how that negates the "sticking together" statement. The US has had two wars with England (the 1775 Revolutionary War and the War of 1812). Yet, I think there is a long history of the US and UK sticking together.
--mamallama
It is not my intent to enter into a long discussion of comparisons between health care coverage in various countries but I am curious as to whether you think population size and life styles might enter into the cost factors.
The United Kingdom, I think, not actually certain, has a population of some 61 million while the US has a population of some 300 million. Would that, do you think be a factor in health care costs? Plus it is my understanding, perhaps incorrectly, that life styles in the two countries are very different. For instance the number injured each year in traffic accidents.
With health care, as in some other areas, I believe it is difficult to make direct comparisons.
Shoot lots of pictures, always fill the frame
C
CLOSED ACCOUNT
Guest
I think in the end, it all boils down to what kind of person one is.
When I look at the right-wing crowd...all I see is this rather mean and nasty persona. They really don't care very much about 'society as a whole'...and put the individual sink or swim premise above everything else.
I think this mindset basically stems from the inability (and in-flexabilty) to comprehend that humans DON'T have an equal platform, and that for a variety of complex psycho-social reasons....greatly differ in their need for certain support systems throughout their lives.
The republican/neo-cons of this world have a very: black n white, us and them, right & wrong, etc outlook.....whereas, left-leaning folks are far more understanding and "aware" of the human condition...and accept (tolerate) those differences, and therefore support the social services that assist those who cannot perform (produce) in society like the working masses.
America was built upon the 'pioneer' mentality, and even after some 250 years or so - haven't been able to shed this rather 'harsh' mindset. Pull up yer boot-straps and get a job...is OK/fine for the majority, but for that remaining 7-10% within society...it simply cannot apply.
Welfare, disability benefits. free healthcare, etc., is often an issue for many right-wingers - until the day that $HIT happens directly to them, or their loved ones - and suddenly it's a completely new ball-game.
KEV
C
CLOSED ACCOUNT
Guest
Most statisitcs are based on a per-capita % ratio - so the actual difference in population doesn't come into it.
For example:
London England has a homicide rate of 2/100,000.....whereas Washington DC has a homicide rate of 60/100,000
Therefore, we can clearly state that Washington DC has a muder rate 30 times higher than London.
Even tho London is a much bigger city than Washington, population-wise.
Stats are usually based on a per-capita basis when comparing nations.
KEV
timmey78
Leading Member
We are flooded with hard working swedes, a lot of pretty Swedish girls
To bad they are here for the high wages and not for the boys..
We have been ruled by both Denmark and Sweden before we claimed our independence in 1905. We love all our Nordic neighbors and have no hard feelings. At least my generation.. Who haven't fought with their neighbors?
Lets remove our boarders again and make "Sworgmark" a reality. I want those Swedish meatballs!!!
--
Thomas Fjørtoft
http://timmey78.zenfolio.com/
To bad they are here for the high wages and not for the boys..We have been ruled by both Denmark and Sweden before we claimed our independence in 1905. We love all our Nordic neighbors and have no hard feelings. At least my generation.. Who haven't fought with their neighbors?
Lets remove our boarders again and make "Sworgmark" a reality. I want those Swedish meatballs!!!
--
Thomas Fjørtoft
http://timmey78.zenfolio.com/
Cedarhill
Veteran Member
There is a very famous individual who said it best.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". - Karl Marx
The figures are based on per capita cost, hence the size of the population is irrelevant. You do have a point about lifestyles, but the reason I took the UK as an example is because these the differences are modest. Obesity is somewhat larger problem in the US, while alcohol is in the UK AFAIK, but the bottom line is there's no explanation for the factor two (!) in expenses.
--
'If you can imagine sharing a waterbed with a baboon that's just been doused in itching powder.'
Torgeir Jensen
Forum Enthusiast
It could have been, Norway was an autonom region under Sweden. After Norway decleard independence (like or brothers in USA) the swedes were threatning us, but as good neighbors we solved the matter in a peaceful matter
It was back in 1905.
--
life is raw
It was back in 1905.
--
life is raw
springbock
Senior Member
That the US has a major health care crises on their hands. Here are some facts for Americans that may not know the health care system is screwed.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of
the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007
According to the MEPS data, nearly 54 million Americans under the age of 65 were
uninsured in the first-half of 2007.
A recent study shows that based on the effects of the recession alone (not job
loss), it is projected that nearly seven (7) million Americans will lose their
health insurance coverage between 2008 and 2010.
Urban Institute researchers estimate that if unemployment reaches 10 percent,
another six (6) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage
Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65
spent a portion of either 2007 or 2008 without health coverage
The large majority of the uninsured (85 percent) are native or naturalized
citizens
Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families
Health insurance premiums have increased 119 percent for employers since 1999 and
employee spending for health insurance coverage (employee’s share of family
coverage) has increased 117 percent between 1999 and 2008
The average annual increase in inflation has been 2.5 percent while health
insurance premiums for small firms have escalated an average of 12 percent
annually.
http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml
National health spending is expected to reach $2.5 trillion in 2009, accounting
for 17.6 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP). By 2018, national health
care expenditures are expected to reach $4.4 trillion—more than double 2007
spending
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
A baby born in El Salvador has a better chance of surviving than a baby in
Detroit. The infant mortality rate in Detroit is 15.5, compared to El Salvador’s
rate of 9.7
Canadians live three years longer on average than we do
Cubans have a lower infant mortality rate than the United States and according to
the U.N. Human Development Report, a longer average lifespan.
Over the next decade, the federal government will give the drug and health care
industries an estimated $822 billion as a result of the 2003 enactment of Medicare
Part D (the Medicare prescription drug plan
There are four times as many health care lobbyists in Washington as there are
members of Congress
http://www.nyegateway.com/2009/08/facts-about-health-care-in-america.html
The USA's life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Not something to be proud of is it? And some people call the US the greatest nation on earth... it doesn't look that way to me.
--
'The truth is rarely pure and never simple' Oscar Wilde
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of
the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007
According to the MEPS data, nearly 54 million Americans under the age of 65 were
uninsured in the first-half of 2007.
A recent study shows that based on the effects of the recession alone (not job
loss), it is projected that nearly seven (7) million Americans will lose their
health insurance coverage between 2008 and 2010.
Urban Institute researchers estimate that if unemployment reaches 10 percent,
another six (6) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage
Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65
spent a portion of either 2007 or 2008 without health coverage
The large majority of the uninsured (85 percent) are native or naturalized
citizens
Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families
Health insurance premiums have increased 119 percent for employers since 1999 and
employee spending for health insurance coverage (employee’s share of family
coverage) has increased 117 percent between 1999 and 2008
The average annual increase in inflation has been 2.5 percent while health
insurance premiums for small firms have escalated an average of 12 percent
annually.
http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml
National health spending is expected to reach $2.5 trillion in 2009, accounting
for 17.6 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP). By 2018, national health
care expenditures are expected to reach $4.4 trillion—more than double 2007
spending
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
A baby born in El Salvador has a better chance of surviving than a baby in
Detroit. The infant mortality rate in Detroit is 15.5, compared to El Salvador’s
rate of 9.7
Canadians live three years longer on average than we do
Cubans have a lower infant mortality rate than the United States and according to
the U.N. Human Development Report, a longer average lifespan.
Over the next decade, the federal government will give the drug and health care
industries an estimated $822 billion as a result of the 2003 enactment of Medicare
Part D (the Medicare prescription drug plan
There are four times as many health care lobbyists in Washington as there are
members of Congress
http://www.nyegateway.com/2009/08/facts-about-health-care-in-america.html
The USA's life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Not something to be proud of is it? And some people call the US the greatest nation on earth... it doesn't look that way to me.
--
'The truth is rarely pure and never simple' Oscar Wilde
I suspect part of it is that (I think) we in the US get more fancy tests from high priced equipment...CAT scans, MRI's, etc. Doctors are prone to err on the side of more tests rather than less so as not run the risk of a malpractice suit which can be very costly here.
There is also the high costs of the emergency room treatment of the uninsured, which we do for all comers including illegals aliens. This is more costly than a doctor visit which often is all that is called for.
Not having a single payer system, we also waste a terrific amount of effort on paperwork for the huge number of health care insurers and providers, each of which has different forms and rules. It's driving our doctors crazy.
We realize that we have a problem, as our outcomes on average are worse than most countries, despite our high cost.
--
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond