K7 review: Either call a Spade a Spade but don't ponce around it :(

Tom Lusk · Oct 3, 2009

or drunk (the subject title seems to indicate this as English, I believe, is your native tongue)

or ???

One of the best reviews a Pentax camera has ever received and you're poring over the text trying to find anything to complain about?

Incredible!

A Schamber · Oct 3, 2009

Tom Lusk said:
or drunk (the subject title seems to indicate this as English, I believe, is your native tongue)

or ???

One of the best reviews a Pentax camera has ever received and you're poring over the text trying to find anything to complain about?

Incredible!

Actually I've pointed out several times, in different reviews, that DPR have sometimes "different" ways of saying things for each brand. The message, is the same... but it's all about how you say it.

If you say: "I can drive up to 100 miles per hour", it's different than saying:
"This level of speed is incredible: 100 miles per hour"... or
"There's room for improvement here... only 100 miles per hour".

I can find some of those examples even in the K-7 review.

Alan.

Jack Simpson · Oct 3, 2009

Tom Lusk wrote:
Hi Tom,

Tom Lusk said:
or drunk

Nope, not drunk, I haven't drank in years

Tom Lusk said:
(the subject title seems to indicate this as English, I believe, is your native tongue)

Well, like, yeah eh....ya hoser

Tom Lusk said:
or ???

Well, you might have me there ... pretty sly of you to catch on where no
one else has :O

Tom Lusk said:
One of the best reviews a Pentax camera has ever received

Yep, no doubt about that ......... finally

Tom Lusk said:
and you're poring over the text

Nope, just casually glancing through the pros and cons when that
particular line caught my eye

Tom Lusk said:
trying to find anything to complain about?

Complain ??.......... Moi ??? ....... Tom, me old cupcake, you definitely
hafta check out the forums more than every three(3) months

Tom Lusk said:
Incredible!

Why, thank you sir

Cheers,

Jack

--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

MY EMAIL ADDRESS IN IS MY 'VIEW PLAN'

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

godfrog · Oct 4, 2009

A Schamber said:
Actually I've pointed out several times, in different reviews, that DPR have sometimes "different" ways of saying things for each brand. The message, is the same... but it's all about how you say it.

If you say: "I can drive up to 100 miles per hour", it's different than saying:
"This level of speed is incredible: 100 miles per hour"... or
"There's room for improvement here... only 100 miles per hour".

I can find some of those examples even in the K-7 review.

Alan.

But in this case DPReview said it in exactly the same way as they did for Canon/Nikon, so what is your point? Every camera owner on DPReview forums seem to think DPReview is biased against their brand of camera...

--
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/36164047@N06/

KitTP · Oct 4, 2009

Charlie Jin said:
One person I know bought K7 to take pictures for his new born baby.
He was trying to take pictures of his wife walking around the living room
under florescent light, but K7 could not auto focus even though she was
moving slowly (with the baby in her arms).

Next day, he borrowed Nikon D90 from his colleague in his work, and
tried the same thing in exactly the same lighting condition. Nikon D90
auto focused very quickly without any problem.

K-7 can't keep up with a woman carrying a baby in her arms ?

That's surprising news to me, because I've found no such problem in my experience.

"User error"

awaldram · Oct 4, 2009

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awaldram · Oct 4, 2009

Whoops to many returns pressed.

Some people in this thread don't seem to know what contrast detect AF is whilst slagging/praising it !!!

so here is a quick guide.

Phase detect AF this is the main AF system on slrs. it is wahts used when you half press the shutter to take a picture during normal optical pre view.

It users a special snsor array in the bottom of the camera and is know in Pentax k7d as the safox Vii+ system

Contrast detect AF is what you get in live view. the Cmos sensor contrast levels are used to drive the AF system. This is the same as all P+S Cameras. it is notoriously inaccurate but works OK on small sensor P+S due to massive DOF.

In the SLR world manufacturers have tried to give some degree of accuracy by complex algorithms unfortunately making contrast AF very slow (for all manufacturers)
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A Schamber · Oct 4, 2009

godfrog said:
A Schamber said:

Actually I've pointed out several times, in different reviews, that DPR have sometimes "different" ways of saying things for each brand. The message, is the same... but it's all about how you say it.

If you say: "I can drive up to 100 miles per hour", it's different than saying:
"This level of speed is incredible: 100 miles per hour"... or
"There's room for improvement here... only 100 miles per hour".

I can find some of those examples even in the K-7 review.

Alan.

Click to expand...

But in this case DPReview said it in exactly the same way as they did for Canon/Nikon, so what is your point? Every camera owner on DPReview forums seem to think DPReview is biased against their brand of camera...

Most people are paranoids. I have seen things like that... but only a few. Here in the Pentax forum, we've seen several times this.

I've even started a thread about this a looong time ago, with my previous user.

Alan.

stanton11 · Oct 4, 2009

Jack Simpson said:
Pete Dee said:

Marbuel said:

I think it is correct ... it is useless but same as competition ... If they'll have the same sentence in D300s and 7D review I'm fine with it.
Marek

Click to expand...

Don't agree, it is not useless it is just as effective as everyone else's and it works, bit slow but it works. Pretty stupid comment from DP Review though.

Click to expand...

I agree, 100% Pete ...... very irresponsible or, as you say, stupid :x

Cheers,

Jack

I think the assessment is fine. A lot of point and shoot users, used to live view may look to a compact SLR, expecting fast AF, which they get with the K-7, but not with live view. I think a stronger statement equating the K-7 live view performance explicitly with all DSLR live implementations to date would have been appropriate.

Jack Simpson · Oct 4, 2009

stanton11 said:
Jack Simpson said:

Pete Dee said:

Marbuel said:

I think it is correct ... it is useless but same as competition ... If they'll have the same sentence in D300s and 7D review I'm fine with it.
Marek

Click to expand...

Don't agree, it is not useless it is just as effective as everyone else's and it works, bit slow but it works. Pretty stupid comment from DP Review though.

Click to expand...

I agree, 100% Pete ...... very irresponsible or, as you say, stupid :x

Cheers,

Jack

Click to expand...

I think the assessment is fine. A lot of point and shoot users, used to live view may look to a compact SLR, expecting fast AF, which they get with the K-7, but not with live view. I think a stronger statement equating the K-7 live view performance explicitly with all DSLR live implementations to date would have been appropriate.

precisely

jack
--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

MY EMAIL ADDRESS IN IS MY 'VIEW PLAN'

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

TheOriginalSinnerman · Oct 4, 2009

Charlie Jin said:
One person I know bought K7 to take pictures for his new born baby.
He was trying to take pictures of his wife walking around the living room
under florescent light, but K7 could not auto focus even though she was
moving slowly (with the baby in her arms).

First off, that is hard to believe... and I think the problem lies more with your friend's abilities to use the camera than anything else. Second, what lens was he using with the K-7?

Charlie Jin said:
Next day, he borrowed Nikon D90 from his colleague in his work, and
tried the same thing in exactly the same lighting condition. Nikon D90
auto focused very quickly without any problem.

Again, what lens?

Charlie Jin said:
According to him, K7 is still far behind other older models.
I am not sure what the K7's competitor is... Is it Nikon D80 and Canon 30D?

A rather pedestrian and lame assessment.

--
I can't hide you, the rock cried out.

Jack Simpson · Oct 4, 2009

Charlie Jin wrote:
CHARLIE JIN as shot by a D90:

Charlie Jin said:
One person I know bought K7 to take pictures for his new born baby.
He was trying to take pictures of his wife walking around the living room
under florescent light, but K7 could not auto focus even though she was
moving slowly (with the baby in her arms).

Next day, he borrowed Nikon D90 from his colleague in his work, and
tried the same thing in exactly the same lighting condition. Nikon D90
auto focused very quickly without any problem.

CHARLIE JIN: as shot by another D90

Charlie Jin said:
According to him, K7 is still far behind other older models.
I am not sure what the K7's competitor is... Is it Nikon D80 and Canon 30D?

CHARLIE JIN: as shot by a D80

CHARLIE JIN: as shot by a 30D

Me thinks Charlie's days are numbered :O

Cheers from a very immature Pentax Forum user

Jack

Pete Dee · Oct 5, 2009

A spade can of course be a shovel but a troll is always a troll.

awaldram · Oct 5, 2009

TheOriginalSinnerman said:
Charlie Jin said:

One person I know bought K7 to take pictures for his new born baby.
He was trying to take pictures of his wife walking around the living room
under florescent light, but K7 could not auto focus even though she was
moving slowly (with the baby in her arms).

Click to expand...

First off, that is hard to believe... and I think the problem lies more with your friend's abilities to use the camera than anything else. Second, what lens was he using with the K-7?

Maybe his friend should have removed the lens cap ;-)

TheOriginalSinnerman said:
TheOriginalSinnerman said:

Next day, he borrowed Nikon D90 from his colleague in his work, and
tried the same thing in exactly the same lighting condition. Nikon D90
auto focused very quickly without any problem.

Click to expand...

Again, what lens?

Which just shows that the k7 has better build quality.....the lens cap had obviously fell off the d90. ;-)

TheOriginalSinnerman said:
TheOriginalSinnerman said:

According to him, K7 is still far behind other older models.
I am not sure what the K7's competitor is... Is it Nikon D80 and Canon 30D?

Click to expand...

The k7 has no competitors being in a class of its own ;-)

TheOriginalSinnerman said:
A rather pedestrian and lame assessment.

--
I can't hide you, the rock cried out.

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My Photo Stream
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Jack Simpson · Oct 5, 2009

Pete Dee wrote:
Hi Pete,

Pete Dee said:
A spade can of course be a shovel but a troll is always a troll.

and ain't that the truth

and the credit for the troll
illustration has to go to ChillGreg from this forum
on another thread

Cheers,

Jack

--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

MY EMAIL ADDRESS IN IS MY 'VIEW PLAN'

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

Charlie Jin · Oct 5, 2009

TheOriginalSinnerman said:
Charlie Jin said:

One person I know bought K7 to take pictures for his new born baby.
He was trying to take pictures of his wife walking around the living room
under florescent light, but K7 could not auto focus even though she was
moving slowly (with the baby in her arms).

Click to expand...

First off, that is hard to believe... and I think the problem lies more with your friend's abilities to use the camera than anything else. Second, what lens was he using with the K-7?

Sorry, for my late reply.
For the lens, he was using DA* 16-50mm.
I don't think that it was his (user) error. He was a descent K10D user.

He just upgraded to K7, since he (and we all) know that K10D just can't auto-focus
properly when the object moves or when there it is not bright.

I was also thinking of upgrading to K7 (from K10D), and this is why
I was very hesitant to do it, and decided that I'll pass.

It wasn't probably that bright, being indoor under fluorescent light.
But the thing was that the borrowed Nikon D90 didn't have any problem
under the same condition.

TheOriginalSinnerman said:
TheOriginalSinnerman said:

According to him, K7 is still far behind other older models.
I am not sure what the K7's competitor is... Is it Nikon D80 and Canon 30D?

Click to expand...

A rather pedestrian and lame assessment.

No, I read a post by someone here who was comparing AF of K7 with
Canon 30D, and I remember that the assessment was that K7's AF was not
better than 30D. Don't remember who it was, could be Lance.

--
cj

Charlie Jin · Oct 5, 2009

That's OK, guys.
You guys just love Pentax so much, and when you see people who say negative
things about Pentax, you just want to smash them...
But I would suggest that you would use some better method to do so.
Because if people see Pentax fans behaving like you, they will probably
think of Pentax negatively. So, as a result, you are dis-servicing Pentax.

Jack Simpson said:
Jack Simpson said:

A spade can of course be a shovel but a troll is always a troll.

Click to expand...

and ain't that the truth and the credit for the troll
illustration has to go to ChillGreg from this forum
on another thread

Cheers,

Jack

--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

MY EMAIL ADDRESS IN IS MY 'VIEW PLAN'

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

--
cj

Class A · Oct 6, 2009

I'm glad that dpreview gave the K-7 part of the credit it deserves. I don't not understand all of the ratings though. For instance, "features" and "value" in comparison to the D300 (no video, no electronic horizon, not automatic horizon correction, no HDR, no ...).

I like the overall review and actually was surprised the reviewers didn't thrash the K-7 for its noise (I personally like the Pentax philosophy, but most reviewers don't).

I was puzzled, though, how the reviewers managed to combine two positive aspects -- 100% viewfinder & automatic lens distortion correction -- into one negative: "You cannot see the final image in the viewfinder." And with which camera will you able to see a corrected version of the image? And even if it worked with the LCD on the back, what is the relationship to the 100% viewfinder? That the latter suddenly becomes pointless? Strange...

I also think the reviewers underrated the horizon correction feature and think it is not fair to subject the camera to a 1.7 degree tilt to observe that this (out of specification) degree of tilt is not entirely corrected.

Anyhow, the review could have been easily more enthusiastic but it could have been easily a lot worse. Not quite sure what to think of it. I'm semi-happy I guess.

--
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chillgreg · Oct 6, 2009

It's not what you say Charlie, its the way you say it.

Charlie Jin said:
Jack Simpson said:

Charlie Jin said:

A spade can of course be a shovel but a troll is always a troll.

Click to expand...

and ain't that the truth and the credit for the troll
illustration has to go to ChillGreg from this forum
on another thread

Cheers,

Jack

--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

MY EMAIL ADDRESS IN IS MY 'VIEW PLAN'

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

Click to expand...

--
cj

--
Best regards

Greg

'He who can't laugh at himself will have others do it for him'

Jack Simpson · Oct 6, 2009

chillgreg said:
It's not what you say Charlie, its the way you say it.

That's it exactly, C_G

Use a hammer to start and, eventually, expect a
hammer in return :O

Cheers,

Jack

chillgreg said:
Charlie Jin said:

Jack Simpson said:

chillgreg said:

A spade can of course be a shovel but a troll is always a troll.

Click to expand...

and ain't that the truth and the credit for the troll
illustration has to go to ChillGreg from this forum
on another thread

Cheers,

Jack

--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

MY EMAIL ADDRESS IN IS MY 'VIEW PLAN'

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

Click to expand...

--
cj

Click to expand...

--
Best regards

Greg

'He who can't laugh at himself will have others do it for him'

--
MY BLOG.... http://www.nakedmanonawire.blogspot.com

MY EMAIL ADDRESS IN IS MY 'VIEW PLAN'

It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

K7 review: Either call a Spade a Spade but don't ponce around it :(

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