New S2 or Secondhand S1?

Hi folks, your advice would be appreciated regarding the following...

I was considering investing in a Fuji S2 camera and a few lenses. I have read the various discussions here and am pretty sure that the S2 will be right for me (once I've saved up the £1799 for the body and even more ££££ for some decent lenses).

Now, to further confuse me, I have had the offer of a Fuji S1 camera for half the price of the S2 body - £1200. As well as that, there are a couple of lenses and a flash included in the 'bundle'. This seems a really good deal (I'm not sure about the quality of the lenses yet).

Of those of you who have had experience with the S1 and/or S2, should I take this offer or should I wait for the S2? I believe that the S1 doesn't(?) give you spot metering, are there any other major differences? DPreview said "6.1 megapixel label" is in reality a 3mp - apart from the obvious difference of accepting lenses etc, what real (quality) difference would this give me against my current 3mp Minolta Dimage 5?

Your advice/experience with these cameras would be most appreciated - I'm completely flumoxed now!

Les
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Hi Les,

I always have thought 'investments' in a new car are the worst one can make, but I think investments in digital camera's beats the car's.

Find out about the lenses offered and in case these are realy fine lenses and their value adds up towards the total, just go for it, as the lenses will last for decades and the investment in the S2 will not ( I just bought one).

Enjoying your fine investment in lenses, not into the S1, you most probably will laugh at us when you order your S3.

And believe me, never owned a S1, but hold one and saw what you can do with it, you will be enjoying the lenses with next year's body,

jacques.

I just love the S2 body, as one couldn't expect to get better for the Euro 2000 I payed for it.

Jacques,

2000 euro for an S2 !!!!!!

where I can found it ???

Ciao, Massimo

jacques said:

Hi Les,

I always have thought 'investments' in a new car are the worst one
can make, but I think investments in digital camera's beats the
car's.

Find out about the lenses offered and in case these are realy fine
lenses and their value adds up towards the total, just go for it,
as the lenses will last for decades and the investment in the S2
will not ( I just bought one).

Enjoying your fine investment in lenses, not into the S1, you most
probably will laugh at us when you order your S3.

And believe me, never owned a S1, but hold one and saw what you can
do with it, you will be enjoying the lenses with next year's body,

jacques.

I just love the S2 body, as one couldn't expect to get better for
the Euro 2000 I payed for it.

Click to expand...

the S2 is a marvelous instrument & worth every centime, but the S1 is no slouch & if the lenses are worthy, your deal may be worthy

here is what the S1 can do using a Nikkor Micro 105 f2.8 & flash



--
pbase galleries
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

If you have "no" digital SLR, any digital SLR will be better. My cousin has a Minolta Dimage 7i,and I have seen some of the prints he's made with it. They look good, but I think Fuji S1 prints look "better".

I am not sure what your funds translate into in US dollars, but the deal offered on the S1,depending on the lenses that come with it, sounds okay. Since I own both an S1 and an S2, I think I can assure you that the S1 is a really good "shooter", and in fact, I am happier with the S1 in terms of LCD screen quality and clarity and its representation of the final JPEGs,much more so than I am with the S2. The S2 has probably the best LCD of any D-SLR, and it has a 200,000 pixel LCD, not a 114,000 or 107,000 pixel LCD. I think the S1 has a better metering system than the S2, at least in matrix mode. I don't use Autofocus much with either camera, but tthe S2 does have a more sophisticated,better AF system.

The S1 is so simple and FAST at setting Color/Tone/Sharpening and ASA, while the S2 forces you to leave shooting mode to change the ASA. In terms of control layout, the S1 is very simple and very good. I think the S1 offers lower contrast on ORIG-ORIG-STD than the S2 does, and this makes for files that are very easy to work with. If you shoot the S1 at 2304x TIFF with STD sharpening or OFF sharpening, you have a very,very high-quality file that can be used to make really good prints. It's about a 10.2 meg file, and it looks much better than any JPEG the S1 can produce.

The S2 on the other hand applies in-camera sharpening better than the S1 does, and it makes JPEGS that have less moire than the S1 does. The S1 is really hampered by the ASA 320 minimum in outdoor fill flash in bright light, but when using anything else, the ASA 320 is very handy for shutter speed boost and decent f/stop. Overall, shooting the S1 at ORIG-ORIG-STD produces some very good jpegs, and even better TIFF files.

In terms of resolving fine detail, the S2 does a better job than the S1 when shooting JPEGs. But if you shoot the S1 at its more-or-less sensor-native resolution and shoot the 10.2 meg tiffs and not the interpolated 17 meg tiffs, it resolves fine detail quite well. Same hold for the S2, but at 17 and 34 megs a tiff, shooting TIFF files on the S2 makes little sense.

I have found the "pictures" the S1 makes to be very,very good. There are a number of forum members who've demonstrated what the S1 can do in the right hands. Jim DeLuco and Dirk Vermiere spring immediately to mind. I've seen a lot of first-rate stuff they've produced with their S1's. I think the S1 could produce a lot of fine photos for you right away, with less of a learning curve than with the S2.

Happy Shooting!
Derrel

Okay, this is a toughie. If it were just the bodies alone, I'd suggest waiting for the S2, because it's an incredible improvement over the S1pro. How?

Better flash. Higher resolution. More rugged body. Lower ISO settings. External PC connector. You get the idea.

With that said, what complicates your particular deal is the offer of a couple of lenses and a flash. Depending upon the makes/models, this may be enough to offset the advantages of waiting for the S2.

In order to make an intelligent decision, you need to find out what lenses and flash unit is being offered. If the lenses are cheap lenses, and the flash is a cheap flash, then I would suggest waiting for the S2. If by contrast, you're offered a Nikon AF-S 80-200 zoom lens with the S1pro...you'd be a moron not to jump at the chance as a new lens sells for over $ 1,400.00. So, knowing the lenses is pretty important to making your decision.

Here's another thing to consider: you'd have to pay cash outright to get the S1pro body and lenses, whereas you can use a credit card and get an S2 and lenses and pay over time. That may be more convenient for you, if the availability of large amounts of cash is a problem.

Bottom line from me: If the S1pro doesn't have good lenses with it, I'd wait for the S2.

Anthony

Les Woods said:

Hi folks, your advice would be appreciated regarding the following...

I was considering investing in a Fuji S2 camera and a few lenses. I
have read the various discussions here and am pretty sure that the
S2 will be right for me (once I've saved up the £1799 for the body
and even more ££££ for some decent lenses).

Now, to further confuse me, I have had the offer of a Fuji S1
camera for half the price of the S2 body - £1200. As well as that,
there are a couple of lenses and a flash included in the 'bundle'.
This seems a really good deal (I'm not sure about the quality of
the lenses yet).

Of those of you who have had experience with the S1 and/or S2,
should I take this offer or should I wait for the S2? I believe
that the S1 doesn't(?) give you spot metering, are there any other
major differences? DPreview said "6.1 megapixel label" is in
reality a 3mp - apart from the obvious difference of accepting
lenses etc, what real (quality) difference would this give me
against my current 3mp Minolta Dimage 5?

Your advice/experience with these cameras would be most appreciated

• I'm completely flumoxed now!

Les
-------------------------------------------------
les woods [visualiser] http://www.leswoods.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------
to email les woods please use the link below...
http://www.leswoods.co.uk/email.shtml

Click to expand...

Wow! Thanks for the feedback folks!

Its looking like the lens' are not too special, so I think I'm going to bite the bullet and go for the S2 body. Now, my reason for the S2 is because as this is such a big investment I'd like to have some kind of warranty should things go pear-shaped, something I wouldn't have if I bought it second hand.

The knock-on effect is that I'll have to go for a cheaper lens to begin with (aagh!) - but this does not necessarily mean it will be a bad one, as I'll be making a trip down to Jessops ( http://www.jessops.co.uk ) to get a good condition, good quality refurb one for (again, hopefully) a lower price than new.

Once I've recovered from open-wallet-surgery I'll be able to go for some brand new lenses!

I want something like a 18-35mm, 70-300mm and a 500mm lens. Jessops have always been very helpful and ship refurb lenses from any of their branches free of charge, so I can take the camera down there and try them out, check the quality back on my computer and then make a decision whether to buy it.

If anyone has any suggestions for a decent lens I could look out for, it would be most appreciated!

Cheers,
Les
-------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------
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Hello Les,

I am glad you made up your mind to the S2.. I personally owned also the S1.. yet after seeing what the S2 does I do not think I will ever take the S1 back into my hands.. although it is/was a GREAT camera

AS to the lenses, I can see your point.. price IS surely an issue, although I think that once you have decided to go for the S2 you should not go for lenses of minor quality. The 18-35 is not bad.. yet I think it is too bulky for everyday use.. and the quality at 18 is not at best. I personally have decided to get rid of it and I opted for the 24-85 AF-S 3.5 lens. Apart from its speedy autofocussing it covers a better range. Now I know I am missing a wide angle and I have just ordered the 14mm 2.8 lens.

As to the telezoom and the 500 mm lens, my suggestion is to rather go for the 80-200 AF-ED 2.8 lens and then use a TC. This gets you (only) to 400, but also in great quality. Since the picture of the S2 is cropped (by the 1.5x multiplier) you any way only use the inner circle of the pictrure and do not have the problem of unsharp borders.

Good Luck with your S2

Ciao
Martino T from Milano

Les Woods said:

Wow! Thanks for the feedback folks!

Its looking like the lens' are not too special, so I think I'm
going to bite the bullet and go for the S2 body. Now, my reason for
the S2 is because as this is such a big investment I'd like to have
some kind of warranty should things go pear-shaped, something I
wouldn't have if I bought it second hand.

The knock-on effect is that I'll have to go for a cheaper lens to
begin with (aagh!) - but this does not necessarily mean it will be
a bad one, as I'll be making a trip down to Jessops
( http://www.jessops.co.uk ) to get a good condition, good quality
refurb one for (again, hopefully) a lower price than new.

Once I've recovered from open-wallet-surgery I'll be able to go for
some brand new lenses!

I want something like a 18-35mm, 70-300mm and a 500mm lens. Jessops
have always been very helpful and ship refurb lenses from any of
their branches free of charge, so I can take the camera down there
and try them out, check the quality back on my computer and then
make a decision whether to buy it.

If anyone has any suggestions for a decent lens I could look out
for, it would be most appreciated!

Cheers,
Les
-------------------------------------------------
les woods [visualiser] http://www.leswoods.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------
to email les woods please use the link below...
http://www.leswoods.co.uk/email.shtml

Click to expand...

Martino,

Thanks for the suggestions for lenses - I will certainly look into getting a lens as you described - most appreciated!

I have noticed that Sigma do reasonably priced lenses, to quote from the jessops catalogue (when I was looking at the original spec I previously posted): 24-70mm f3.5-5.6 HF N (I think that (N) is the fitting code as there is a key on that page for Nikon Autofocus). As well as that, Do you think this is a reasonable quality lens?

Also, I have seen a Centon 500mm f8 mirror lens (which needs a T2 mount adapter) - here are the specs for it:

Filter thread rear: 30.5mm / Front 72mm.
Type: Fixed Focal Length
Focal Range: Telephoto
Lens Fitting: T2
Focusing: Manual
Macro: No
Filter Size: 72mm

I know I won't be able to use autofocus with it, but based on the information above, do you think this lens would provide acceptable results when used with the S2?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Les
-------------------------------------------------
les woods [visualiser] http://www.leswoods.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------
to email les woods please use the link below...
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Les Woods said:

Les Woods said:

Once I've recovered from open-wallet-surgery I'll be able to go for

Click to expand...

some brand new lenses!

I want something like a 18-35mm, 70-300mm and a 500mm lens. Jessops
have always been very helpful and ship refurb lenses from any of
their branches free of charge, so I can take the camera down there
and try them out, check the quality back on my computer and then
make a decision whether to buy it.

If anyone has any suggestions for a decent lens I could look out
for, it would be most appreciated!

Cheers,
Les
-------------------------------------------------
les woods [visualiser] http://www.leswoods.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------
to email les woods please use the link below...
http://www.leswoods.co.uk/email.shtml

Click to expand...

Hi Les:

I went nuts and bought the following nikon lenses: 24-120, 70-300, 105 Macro, and 1.8 50mm. The lens I love is the 50mm. It's the fastest, sharpest and lighest lens of the bunch.

Since you haven't used the S1 or S2 this might be the lens to sharpen your skills with your new toy.

For under $100 US your on your way and by the time you get the S2 down pat you can go for the lenses you want.

Just back up if you need more coverage or get closser if you want a tighter shot for a while.
Phil

Phil Cittadino said:

Hi Les:
I went nuts and bought the following nikon lenses: 24-120, 70-300,
105 Macro, and 1.8 50mm. The lens I love is the 50mm. It's the
fastest, sharpest and lighest lens of the bunch.
Since you haven't used the S1 or S2 this might be the lens to
sharpen your skills with your new toy.
For under $100 US your on your way and by the time you get the S2
down pat you can go for the lenses you want.
Just back up if you need more coverage or get closser if you want a
tighter shot for a while.
Phil

Click to expand...

Way to go Phil!

Thats a great assortment of lenses you have there, may I ask what make they are? Andwhere you bought them? Was it online? If so, where? Hope you don't mind all the questions!

Les
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Les...

I have no way to tell you if Sigma lenses are OK, since I have always used Nikon lenses

As to the 500mm Reflex, I have tried the Nikon f8/500 before buying the 2xTC for the 80-200 and must say that there are certain advantages on using the 80-200 :

a) higher aperture --> 5.6 instead of 8
b) better control of DOF (the Zoom stops down to f22)
c) the possibility to use AF
d) Macro possibility and normal focussing down to 1.8m (even with the TC)

The only nice thing about the 500mm Reflex are the circle effects in the unsharp zones.. but THAT I can always do with a Cokin or Tiffen filter

Regards,
Martino T from Milano

Les Woods said:

Martino,

Thanks for the suggestions for lenses - I will certainly look into
getting a lens as you described - most appreciated!

I have noticed that Sigma do reasonably priced lenses, to quote
from the jessops catalogue (when I was looking at the original spec
I previously posted): 24-70mm f3.5-5.6 HF N (I think that (N) is
the fitting code as there is a key on that page for Nikon
Autofocus). As well as that, Do you think this is a reasonable
quality lens?

Also, I have seen a Centon 500mm f8 mirror lens (which needs a T2
mount adapter) - here are the specs for it:

Filter thread rear: 30.5mm / Front 72mm.
Type: Fixed Focal Length
Focal Range: Telephoto
Lens Fitting: T2
Focusing: Manual
Macro: No
Filter Size: 72mm

I know I won't be able to use autofocus with it, but based on the
information above, do you think this lens would provide acceptable
results when used with the S2?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Les
-------------------------------------------------
les woods [visualiser] http://www.leswoods.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------
to email les woods please use the link below...
http://www.leswoods.co.uk/email.shtml

Click to expand...

Les Woods said:

Phil Cittadino said:

Hi Les:

Click to expand...

Thanks Les

Click to expand...

The first lens I bought 2 months ago from B&H Camera, on line. Paid $459. for the 24-120 3.5-4.5 Nikon AF. The 70-300 4.5-5.6 Nikon AF ED was $399 at a local Camera Store and I picked up the 50mm 1.8 Nikon AF used from the same store for $79.

When I got tired of waiting for State Street Direct to get my camera in I called Fort Worth Camera and the guy was so helpful I ordered the 105mm Micro Nikor from him for$659 and I had The whole shootin match in 14 hours.

Buy the way the Micro Nikor is also a great lens. The 24-120 is large and very hard to get really sharp pictures with. The same with the 70-300.

I'm from the old school and getting older by the minute and I still am fond of fixed focus lenes. I'm also finding that I really need at least a mono pod to get really good stuff.

The next lens is going to be a 18mm wide angle.

Good luck, Phil

Les--
If you're just starting out, and money is very tight, then here are my lessons.

1) Get a Nikon 50mm f/1.8 AF lens. Very inexpensive, very sharp, you'll get the most out of your camera. Need a wider shot? Take a few steps back. Need a tighter shot? Get a little closer. Fuji should include this lens as standard with the camera.

2) For a second lens, I really like/love my Sigma 28-105 f/2.8-4 zoom lens. Not so good wide open, but at f/5.6 and smaller, the lens really does well. It's not too expensive either. This is a good, all-around lens IMHO. Yes, there are other 28-105 lenses with other maximum apertures around, but this one is a good balance between the heavy, expensive Tamron and the expensive less bright Nikon.

3) A 500mm mirror lens is not the best way to get that far reach. A cheap lens will cost you about $ 120.00. You only have 1 aperture and you'll need a T-mount and have to guess your exposures. It'll work, but you won't be happy with it.

4) Another option to consider is the 50-500mm Sigma zoom. The only drawback is its weight and size. It'll run you about $ 900 to 1000.00. However, the zoom range on the lens is incredible and it does pretty well for a lens of this size.

This last lens will knock off two of your lens ranges, making it more economical that it might appear at first glance. And you'll get much better results at 500mm. Just make sure you get a tripod too.

Anthony

Les Woods said:

Wow! Thanks for the feedback folks!

Its looking like the lens' are not too special, so I think I'm
going to bite the bullet and go for the S2 body. Now, my reason for
the S2 is because as this is such a big investment I'd like to have
some kind of warranty should things go pear-shaped, something I
wouldn't have if I bought it second hand.

The knock-on effect is that I'll have to go for a cheaper lens to
begin with (aagh!) - but this does not necessarily mean it will be
a bad one, as I'll be making a trip down to Jessops
( http://www.jessops.co.uk ) to get a good condition, good quality
refurb one for (again, hopefully) a lower price than new.

Once I've recovered from open-wallet-surgery I'll be able to go for
some brand new lenses!

I want something like a 18-35mm, 70-300mm and a 500mm lens. Jessops
have always been very helpful and ship refurb lenses from any of
their branches free of charge, so I can take the camera down there
and try them out, check the quality back on my computer and then
make a decision whether to buy it.

If anyone has any suggestions for a decent lens I could look out
for, it would be most appreciated!

Cheers,
Les
-------------------------------------------------
les woods [visualiser] http://www.leswoods.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------
to email les woods please use the link below...
http://www.leswoods.co.uk/email.shtml

Click to expand...

Go to Antwerp Metro foto, just slightly above E 2000 without VAT.

Amazing isn't it, very fine people, it's a real Pro store,

jacques.

well just pay cash.

Anthony said:

Les--
If you're just starting out, and money is very tight, then here are
my lessons.

Click to expand...

Thats some good suggestions there, Anthony!

I see what you're saying, the 50mm seems to be popular, I can get hold of a 30-200mm lens so I'll probably start off with these and then build my collection up.

Anthony32599 said:

Need a wider shot? Take a few steps back. Need a tighter shot? Get a little closer.

Click to expand...

Good tip, I just hope I don't end up halfway up a mountain and choose to step baaaaaaaaaaack.............



Les
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les woods [visualiser] http://www.leswoods.co.uk
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If you get a Sigma or Tamron 28-200 or 28-300mm super zoom, be prepared for the fact that your images will be fairly soft until around f/11 to f/16. They are good lenses, but with some limitations. I like having the wide range in one lens, but because they really need to be stopped down to get the best out of them, I have switched to the Sigma 28-105 f/2.8-4 lens. I thought I would miss the far end of the zoom, but I haven't yet. Most of my shots are of people anyway, and this is a great range (28-105).

If you have to get by with one lens only, then yeah the 28-200 or 28-300 will have to do. But if can stretch it a little, I think a 28-105 zoom and an 80-200 zoom might be better for you.

For wide angle shots...well, that's a tough one as the lenses get incredibly expensive at that end. I have a Sigma 20mm which is good for wide shots, but you might also consider a cheapy digital camera too, since they are the price of a wide-angle zoom, have fairly wide lenses and the cheap P&S digital camera can also function as a backup.

Good luck with whatever you choose! And there's always eBay.

Anthony

Les Woods said:

Anthony said:

Les--
If you're just starting out, and money is very tight, then here are
my lessons.

Click to expand...

Thats some good suggestions there, Anthony!

I see what you're saying, the 50mm seems to be popular, I can get
hold of a 30-200mm lens so I'll probably start off with these and
then build my collection up.

Les Woods said:

Need a wider shot? Take a few steps back. Need a tighter shot? Get a little closer.

Click to expand...

Good tip, I just hope I don't end up halfway up a mountain and
choose to step baaaaaaaaaaack.............



Les
-------------------------------------------------
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Click to expand...

The Tamron 24-135 seems to have quite a following in the forum and is reasonably inexpensive. It would have that slight wider angle advantage over a 28-??? zoom being a 36mm equivalent and stretching out to about 200 equiv at the tele end. I went for the dearer Sigma 24-70 f2.8 but its a lot heavier and bulkier than the Tamron. I find I use the 24 end quite a lot and now intend to get an 18 or 20 prime for the wider stuff. The wide zooms have a bit too much barrel distortion at the wide end for my uses. The Sigma is surprisingly distortion free at the 24 end (I haven't had cause to check the 70 end yet .
--
Doug Jones
Canberra
http://www.panamagic.com.au

Yeah, I am very interested in the Tamron 24-135, but I am loathe to give up the wider aperture of my Sigma 28-105 f/2.8-4. It's hard in my mind ot justify the expense when I have a lens that's performing well enough at f/5.6 and smaller. It seems like I'd have to stop down to about f/6.7 or f/8 with the Tamron to get equivalent performance.

Anthony

Doug Jones said:

The Tamron 24-135 seems to have quite a following in the forum and
is reasonably inexpensive. It would have that slight wider angle
advantage over a 28-??? zoom being a 36mm equivalent and stretching
out to about 200 equiv at the tele end. I went for the dearer Sigma
24-70 f2.8 but its a lot heavier and bulkier than the Tamron. I
find I use the 24 end quite a lot and now intend to get an 18 or 20
prime for the wider stuff. The wide zooms have a bit too much
barrel distortion at the wide end for my uses. The Sigma is
surprisingly distortion free at the 24 end (I haven't had cause to
check the 70 end yet .
--
Doug Jones
Canberra
http://www.panamagic.com.au

Click to expand...