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DMC-ZR1 vs Fuji F70EXR

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rmwpg

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I am in the market for a higher zoom, pocketable camera. I purchased both the Fuji F70EXR (10MP 10X Zoom) and the Panasonic DMC ZR1 (12MP 8X Zoom) and took a few shots and movies outdoors on an overcast day with each to compare. I had previously owned a Fuji F10 so had high hopes for the F70 and I also own a Panny LX3 so was curious how its little brother would perform. I put photos side by side in Lightroom to compare.

Observations:

1. The F70 is considerably larger and heavier than the ZR1 which makes it that much less pocketable.

2. The F70 images are nowhere near as clean as my old F10 was. I saw noise at ISO100 and definite noise and loss of sharpness at ISO400. The ZR1 had cleaner and sharper images at the same ISO.

3. Some people don't like the Panny colors so this is subjective, but I find the ZR1 colors to be more pleasing than the F70.

4. The EXR mode did provide an improvement in high contrast shots.

5. The F70 image stabilization sucks. The Panny ZR1 blew it away. I had at least a two stop advantage with the ZR1 over the F70.

6. In Auto mode, the F70 consistently chose a higher ISO than the ZR1. The means that for the same EV the F70 had more noise.

7. Movies. The F70 isn't HD, the ZR1 is. Although you CAN zoom in both, the F70 is a serious dissapointment. You can hear the zoom noise in the video and the auto focus cannot keep up, leaving you with a second or two of blur until the camera gets focus. You will not want to zoom during filming. With the ZR1 you cannot hear the zoom and focus is instantaneous giving a very pleasing result.

I am not sure of the ZR1 but it definitely looks promising. I would like to try it agains the ZS3 yet before I make up my mind. This little test of mine was by no means exhaustive but was enough for me to decide...I will not be keeping the F70.
 
You my arrive at the same conclusion, but before doing so I'd strongly suggest reading Kim's Blog and listening to his suggestions about how to best use the F70EXR.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/09/f70exr-how-to-shoot-it.html
rmwpg said:
I am in the market for a higher zoom, pocketable camera. I purchased both the Fuji F70EXR (10MP 10X Zoom) and the Panasonic DMC ZR1 (12MP 8X Zoom) and took a few shots and movies outdoors on an overcast day with each to compare. I had previously owned a Fuji F10 so had high hopes for the F70 and I also own a Panny LX3 so was curious how its little brother would perform. I put photos side by side in Lightroom to compare.

Observations:

1. The F70 is considerably larger and heavier than the ZR1 which makes it that much less pocketable.

2. The F70 images are nowhere near as clean as my old F10 was. I saw noise at ISO100 and definite noise and loss of sharpness at ISO400. The ZR1 had cleaner and sharper images at the same ISO.

3. Some people don't like the Panny colors so this is subjective, but I find the ZR1 colors to be more pleasing than the F70.

4. The EXR mode did provide an improvement in high contrast shots.

5. The F70 image stabilization sucks. The Panny ZR1 blew it away. I had at least a two stop advantage with the ZR1 over the F70.

6. In Auto mode, the F70 consistently chose a higher ISO than the ZR1. The means that for the same EV the F70 had more noise.

7. Movies. The F70 isn't HD, the ZR1 is. Although you CAN zoom in both, the F70 is a serious dissapointment. You can hear the zoom noise in the video and the auto focus cannot keep up, leaving you with a second or two of blur until the camera gets focus. You will not want to zoom during filming. With the ZR1 you cannot hear the zoom and focus is instantaneous giving a very pleasing result.

I am not sure of the ZR1 but it definitely looks promising. I would like to try it agains the ZS3 yet before I make up my mind. This little test of mine was by no means exhaustive but was enough for me to decide...I will not be keeping the F70.
Click to expand...
 
It is true that one may be able to squeeze better results out of it. The manual mode is practically useless to me (it only has two aperture and shutter speeds to choose from) so I would most likely be shooting THIS camera in full auto (I'll use my LX3 for low light and indoors shots anyway). I poked through the menus and had set the ISO to ISO800 which I believe will max out the ISO at 800. I had EXR set at 400. Autofocus set to continuous. As you said, the ZR1 is much more user friendly and gave better results out-of-the-box.
 
Program. Works well. Allows ISO to float

I set this mode to auto ISO 1600, DR400 and I use it for EVERYTHING EXCEPT harsh contrast and bright sun.

For Very bright sunlight or with severe contrast:

DR priority. Works pretty well. Allows you to set floating ISO but ISO must float! Chooses ISO 100 most of the time in bright light. Allows you to set 400% DR mode. And will shoot that at ISO 100, meaning that it will use the hardware to do the job. I like to set this mode to DR800 now. I use it in very bright sunlight or with severe contrast
 
He has some nice images, but anything looks good small. I am sure with some time getting used to the camera I might become happy with it. I just think the strengths of the ZR1 outweigh those of the F70.

Fuji



Panny



Fuji



Panny



Fuji



Panny



All photos in Auto mode and ISO400
 
 
first hand, why not spend a bit of time trying the two simple modes that Kim found to be very productive and then see how the IQ of both compare?

Your input and evaluation could be very useful to you and others (me) that won't have the chance to actually compare the image quality ability of both cameras first hand....You've got the chance..why not try??
 
 
He set the "mode to auto ISO 1600, DR400 and I use it for EVERYTHING EXCEPT harsh contrast and bright sun"

I set the mode to auto ISO 800 and Auto DR. My shots were under an overcast sky.

ISO 400 is ISO 400, reguardless of what the mode was set to. Look at the 100% crops I linked and you will see the difference for yourself.

I wanted to get the Fuji...I loved my F10, it was cheaper and had a better zoom length. I just think that the Panasonic does a better job.
 
He used Program and auto ISO 1600, DR400.

Is that the same as you set...?? I am a bit confused by the wording as the camera has so many confusing modes that are different.. Program is what he suggested not EXR Auto....
 
asked Kim to comment about the samples...Hope you don't mind...
rmwpg said:
He set the "mode to auto ISO 1600, DR400 and I use it for EVERYTHING EXCEPT harsh contrast and bright sun"

I set the mode to auto ISO 800 and Auto DR. My shots were under an overcast sky.

ISO 400 is ISO 400, reguardless of what the mode was set to. Look at the 100% crops I linked and you will see the difference for yourself.

I wanted to get the Fuji...I loved my F10, it was cheaper and had a better zoom length. I just think that the Panasonic does a better job.
Click to expand...
 
He used Program and auto ISO 1600, DR400.

Is that the same as you set...?? I am a bit confused by the wording as the camera has so many confusing modes that are different.. Program is what he suggested not EXR Auto....

I was either in Program or Auto, definitely not in EXR Auto. I didn't play with that mode at all. It started to rain again...

There are three Auto ISO settings, 400, 800, 1600. I believe the way it work is that auto ISO 1600 limits the top end of the ISO range to 1600, auto ISO 800 limits it to 800, etc.

Comparing the EXIF, the shutter speeds, aperture and ISO were all similar...
 
Nope, not at all. If he can show me a way to get better images from it I would be grateful.

I still think I would go with the Panny for the image stabilization alone. I tried 8X Zoom with both cameras in the store before I bought the Fuji. No problem with the Panny, but I could not get a blur free image from the F70.
 
No doubt the Panny OIS is superior to the Sensor Shift IS of the Fuji....

Kim spent alot of time sorting through the modes of the F70EXR and he found many not worth using at all...but he has alot of success using these two settings as I quoted from his blog....So it may very well pay to use exactly these two settings to test...

"Program. Works well. Allows ISO to float

I set this mode to auto ISO 1600, DR400 and I use it for EVERYTHING EXCEPT harsh contrast and bright sun.

For Very bright sunlight or with severe contrast:

DR priority. Works pretty well. Allows you to set floating ISO * but ISO must float!* Chooses ISO 100 most of the time in bright light. Allows you to set 400% DR mode. And will shoot that at ISO 100, meaning that it will use the hardware to do the job. I like to set this mode to DR800 now. I use it in very bright sunlight or with severe contrast "
 
Well, I'll see if I can get out to take more photos this weekend and I will make sure to use those settings. May be able to try some indoor stuff as well...
 
Maybe it's possible to get better results out of the fuji, but at the end of the day, these are point and shoot cameras, and personally if you can't just turn it on, point, and shoot, i don't think it's a very good camera. The beauty of the pannys is they do exactly that.

i would be extremely interested to have a similar comparison between ZS3 and ZR1, as these are the two cameras i am trying to decide between, and i don't think i'm the only one.

good work.
 
For ZR1, as the images are normally oversharpened, do not use Vivid (too grainy!). Even need to use Natural for portrait.
 
A couple points.

1) Just because the F70 chooses a higher ISO doesn't mean it's less sensitive. Most likely you're getting a faster shutter speed too.

2) The IS comparison is a useful observation. That's important for telephoto shots. But also consider that indoors, without a flash, you should be using the wide angle setting, and in my experience IS is not effective when taking wide angle shots.

I own the Panasonic FX30 and while I really like it, it's got its own problems. The low frequency chroma noise is very apparent any time you don't have a lot of light on your subject, even at base ISO. I've noticed that, although Panasonic continues to get better in this area, they still have the faint color splotches on everything once you get away from base ISO. And the flash exposure stinks. It feels like it's not even trying to expose correctly. You just have to make sure you're far enough from the subject or it will get blown out.

What I do like about Panasonics is their button interface. I'm sure they've changed it around a bit, but I like how the FX30 has direct or near-direct access to exposure, white balance, flash settings, and timer settings. I'm not so keen on the software it runs on though. Zooming and panning images is kinda slow, and it's not easy to compare sharpness between shots.

I hear the ZR1 has really fast focus now. Is this true? How does the flash exposure compare between the two cameras?
 
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