Frank68740
Forum Enthusiast
i have never tried IR but i always see references to using a ND filter whenever a shot is taken with an IR filter.
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Why is a ND filter necessary with IR filter?
- Thread starter Frank68740
- Start date
In nightshot mode, the hot-mirror is swung away from the CCD and leaves it exposed to infrared radiation. CCDs are somewhat sensitive to IR. Unfortunately Sony's nightshot mode limits the camera to a minimum shutter speed of 1/60th of a second and an aperture of f/2. This allows a flood of IR into the camera during daytime, and thus you need an ND filter to cut down the amount of IR.
Jim
Jim
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
First of all, you havent mentioned what camera your using.
and second, its not necessary, but it very well may be the choice of 707 owners to shoot IR. You see, theres really 2 ways to shoot IR with the 707. If you dont have the 707 then you can only shoot IR 1 way and thats in manual mode with no ND's.
I have the 707 and i choose to shoot manually. Its a little more difficult but i like the challenge and the results.
Have a peek at my gallery to see.
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
cheers
Zip
=========================================
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and second, its not necessary, but it very well may be the choice of 707 owners to shoot IR. You see, theres really 2 ways to shoot IR with the 707. If you dont have the 707 then you can only shoot IR 1 way and thats in manual mode with no ND's.
I have the 707 and i choose to shoot manually. Its a little more difficult but i like the challenge and the results.
Have a peek at my gallery to see.
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
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slyk
New member
ZipperZ-
How do you do IR when in manual mode on the 707? Isn't the hot mirror in place and night shot is inaccessible in manual??
Slyk
How do you do IR when in manual mode on the 707? Isn't the hot mirror in place and night shot is inaccessible in manual??
Slyk
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
slky, as you know, theres 2 ways to shoot IR with the 707. I'll outline them below for clearer understanding
Method 1
camera set to "Auto"
nightshot "on"
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter and ND filter attached to CZ lens.
:camera defaults to f2 and 1/60sec with no adjustments except "ev"
Method 2
camera set to "manual", "shutter priority" or "aperture priority".
-full manual mode would be recommended.
nightshot "off" (invalid outside of auto mode)
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter attached to CZ lens
:manual mode allows full control of f-stop and shutter speed to suit. no "ev" adjustments
i hope this helps
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
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Method 1
camera set to "Auto"
nightshot "on"
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter and ND filter attached to CZ lens.
:camera defaults to f2 and 1/60sec with no adjustments except "ev"
Method 2
camera set to "manual", "shutter priority" or "aperture priority".
-full manual mode would be recommended.
nightshot "off" (invalid outside of auto mode)
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter attached to CZ lens
:manual mode allows full control of f-stop and shutter speed to suit. no "ev" adjustments
i hope this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
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slyk
New member
Yes, the hot-mirror is in place but it allows a bit of IR through, especially at the shorter wavelengths. That's why the unprocessed images appear reddish when using IR filters such as the Hoya R72.
Jim
Jim
Lisa Young74699
Senior Member
I tried manual at ten seconds, but my shot was a very dark red, does that mean I need to do an even longer exposure to get the IR affect you got in your shots?
Lisa
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
Lisa
--Method 1
camera set to "Auto"
nightshot "on"
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter and ND filter attached to CZ lens.
:camera defaults to f2 and 1/60sec with no adjustments except "ev"
Method 2
camera set to "manual", "shutter priority" or "aperture priority".
-full manual mode would be recommended.
nightshot "off" (invalid outside of auto mode)
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter attached to CZ lens
:manual mode allows full control of f-stop and shutter speed to suit. no "ev" adjustments
i hope this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
no Lisa. You need to shorten your time. Deep red means its underexposed. Light pink means its overexposed.
Heres 2 different exposures.
The very dark red one will be very very noisy once i lighten it up is PS. While the very light pink one will show heavy white-outs and lots of detail will be lost. A happy medium is what you want for an overall pleasing shot. Once you get used to it you will be able to tell if you got a good exposure of not by seeing this thru the 707 LCD. This is the main reason why i choose to shoot in manual mode.
underexposed IR: very noisy when lightened in PS
overexposed IR: notice detail lost in grass
good exposure: notice the detail n the grass
end result
as i said, once youve shot a few IR's in manual mode you be know if the exposure is right or not
hope all this helps
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
Heres 2 different exposures.
The very dark red one will be very very noisy once i lighten it up is PS. While the very light pink one will show heavy white-outs and lots of detail will be lost. A happy medium is what you want for an overall pleasing shot. Once you get used to it you will be able to tell if you got a good exposure of not by seeing this thru the 707 LCD. This is the main reason why i choose to shoot in manual mode.
underexposed IR: very noisy when lightened in PS
overexposed IR: notice detail lost in grass
good exposure: notice the detail n the grass
end result
as i said, once youve shot a few IR's in manual mode you be know if the exposure is right or not
hope all this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
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wrsomsky
Well-known member
Hmm... so what sort of apetures and shutter-speeds does one end up using when working thru the IR filter / ND filter / hot mirror combo? It also seems you'd end up using a narrower band of IR than when working in night-shot mode w/out the hot mirrior.
--
W R Somsky
Online Gallery: http://www.speakeasy.org/~gramarye/photos
Todd Moore
Leading Member
Zipper,
Go a bit farther with what you stated down here in manual mode - No ND filter in manual, correct?
What IR filter?
I have been shooting in manual with the Hoya r72 - Post process the red out but never seem to get the clarity I am looking for and clarity is what your shots seem to have in stock. What is you secret on this?
Thanks
Go a bit farther with what you stated down here in manual mode - No ND filter in manual, correct?
What IR filter?
I have been shooting in manual with the Hoya r72 - Post process the red out but never seem to get the clarity I am looking for and clarity is what your shots seem to have in stock. What is you secret on this?
Thanks
Method 1
camera set to "Auto"
nightshot "on"
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter and ND filter attached to CZ lens.
:camera defaults to f2 and 1/60sec with no adjustments except "ev"
Method 2
camera set to "manual", "shutter priority" or "aperture priority".
-full manual mode would be recommended.
nightshot "off" (invalid outside of auto mode)
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter attached to CZ lens
:manual mode allows full control of f-stop and shutter speed to suit. no "ev" adjustments
i hope this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
Todd Moore
Leading Member
and, what ND filter would you use in auto?
Go a bit farther with what you stated down here in manual mode - No
ND filter in manual, correct?
What IR filter?
I have been shooting in manual with the Hoya r72 - Post process the
red out but never seem to get the clarity I am looking for and
clarity is what your shots seem to have in stock. What is you
secret on this?
Thanks
Method 1
camera set to "Auto"
nightshot "on"
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter and ND filter attached to CZ lens.
:camera defaults to f2 and 1/60sec with no adjustments except "ev"
Method 2
camera set to "manual", "shutter priority" or "aperture priority".
-full manual mode would be recommended.
nightshot "off" (invalid outside of auto mode)
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter attached to CZ lens
:manual mode allows full control of f-stop and shutter speed to suit. no "ev" adjustments
i hope this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
Lisa Young74699
Senior Member
So with deep red I need to shorten my time by doing less than ten seconds? I thought it would get darker shortening the time.
And in manual mode you still get a red/pink shot for correct exposure and then you change it to black and white in PS?
Thanks,
Lisa
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
And in manual mode you still get a red/pink shot for correct exposure and then you change it to black and white in PS?
Thanks,
Lisa
--underexposed IR: very noisy when lightened in PS
overexposed IR: notice detail lost in grass
good exposure: notice the detail n the grass
end result
as i said, once youve shot a few IR's in manual mode you be know if
the exposure is right or not
hope all this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
If you're shooting IR in manual mode, you can control the aperture and shutter speed to its limits. The main advantage of shooting in manual is to get large depth of field. Because the hot-mirror is in place, the disadvantages are the long exposures you need to get the shot, the noise that accumulates. And, indeed, your get a narrower IR band. It's mostly the red sensors that see IR here and the results are reddish images (at least with the R72).
In nightshot mode (with the hot-mirror removed) the sensors see far more IR. That's why nightshot mode gives olive-green shades (with the R72). Both the green and red sensors see IR, with the green dominating. But because Sony purposely limited the aperture and shutter, the disadvantages are the fixed f/2 aperture and only 1/8 thru 1/60 sec. shutter speeds in auto mode only.
Jim
In nightshot mode (with the hot-mirror removed) the sensors see far more IR. That's why nightshot mode gives olive-green shades (with the R72). Both the green and red sensors see IR, with the green dominating. But because Sony purposely limited the aperture and shutter, the disadvantages are the fixed f/2 aperture and only 1/8 thru 1/60 sec. shutter speeds in auto mode only.
Jim
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
duh...im so dumb...im mean more time is needed if too dark. Was late last night...sorry
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
--And in manual mode you still get a red/pink shot for correct
exposure and then you change it to black and white in PS?
Thanks,
Lisa
--underexposed IR: very noisy when lightened in PS
overexposed IR: notice detail lost in grass
good exposure: notice the detail n the grass
end result
as i said, once youve shot a few IR's in manual mode you be know if
the exposure is right or not
hope all this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
correct. I dont use any ND filters
Hota R72
no big secret really. I use the Sony remote to trigger my shots. Its really really tough to get sharp pics with IR period. Slow shutter speeds just are that way. I do believe pressing down on the shutter release with your finger then letting go may create a bit of a springboad effect ever so slightly thus creating an even more soft photo. If you dont have the remote then use the timer. Depress the shutter halfway and let the autofucus do the work. You'll notice the AF is slower to work but depress a few times till your satisfied then finish the exposure.
--Thanks
Method 1
camera set to "Auto"
nightshot "on"
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter and ND filter attached to CZ lens.
:camera defaults to f2 and 1/60sec with no adjustments except "ev"
Method 2
camera set to "manual", "shutter priority" or "aperture priority".
-full manual mode would be recommended.
nightshot "off" (invalid outside of auto mode)
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter attached to CZ lens
:manual mode allows full control of f-stop and shutter speed to suit. no "ev" adjustments
i hope this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
ZipperZ
Veteran Member
what i didnt understand is why you got a "dark" red IR pic with 10secs??? Usually 10secs is just waaaaay to long in very bright sunlight. So i automatically said shorten your time. If you check out my PBase IR gallery most of my shots are from 1secs up to 4secs. All the EXIF info is there.
Have fun Lisa. you'll get it. And it'll be great!
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
Have fun Lisa. you'll get it. And it'll be great!
--And in manual mode you still get a red/pink shot for correct
exposure and then you change it to black and white in PS?
Thanks,
Lisa
--underexposed IR: very noisy when lightened in PS
overexposed IR: notice detail lost in grass
good exposure: notice the detail n the grass
end result
as i said, once youve shot a few IR's in manual mode you be know if
the exposure is right or not
hope all this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
Lisa Young74699
Senior Member
You answered one of my questions 
, but not the more important one. Do you get a red/pink good exposure shot in manual and then convert it to black and white in PS? Or with the right exposure it comes out the right colors like the night vision mode?
By the way, it was not very bright out, very cloudy in the mountains, and I did it wrong too, by also having the ND filter on for using the manual settings.
Thanks,
Lisa
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
, but not the more important one. Do you get a red/pink good exposure shot in manual and then convert it to black and white in PS? Or with the right exposure it comes out the right colors like the night vision mode?By the way, it was not very bright out, very cloudy in the mountains, and I did it wrong too, by also having the ND filter on for using the manual settings.
Thanks,
Lisa
----And in manual mode you still get a red/pink shot for correct
exposure and then you change it to black and white in PS?
Thanks,
Lisa
--underexposed IR: very noisy when lightened in PS
overexposed IR: notice detail lost in grass
good exposure: notice the detail n the grass
end result
as i said, once youve shot a few IR's in manual mode you be know if
the exposure is right or not
hope all this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
Lisa Young74699
Senior Member
And reading your other replies I do have the Hoya R72.
Thanks,
Lisa
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
Thanks,
Lisa
--By the way, it was not very bright out, very cloudy in the
mountains, and I did it wrong too, by also having the ND filter on
for using the manual settings.
Thanks,
Lisa
----And in manual mode you still get a red/pink shot for correct
exposure and then you change it to black and white in PS?
Thanks,
Lisa
--underexposed IR: very noisy when lightened in PS
overexposed IR: notice detail lost in grass
good exposure: notice the detail n the grass
end result
as i said, once youve shot a few IR's in manual mode you be know if
the exposure is right or not
hope all this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC:
http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986
Todd Moore
Leading Member
Great........I little further into post processing:
Can you tell me what steps you take when you take it into PS. I have read many ways that people are doing it but looking at your photos is proof that yours is working well.
Thanks
Can you tell me what steps you take when you take it into PS. I have read many ways that people are doing it but looking at your photos is proof that yours is working well.
Thanks
correct. I dont use any ND filters
Hota R72
no big secret really. I use the Sony remote to trigger my shots.
Its really really tough to get sharp pics with IR period. Slow
shutter speeds just are that way. I do believe pressing down on the
shutter release with your finger then letting go may create a bit
of a springboad effect ever so slightly thus creating an even more
soft photo. If you dont have the remote then use the timer. Depress
the shutter halfway and let the autofucus do the work. You'll
notice the AF is slower to work but depress a few times till your
satisfied then finish the exposure.
--Thanks
Method 1
camera set to "Auto"
nightshot "on"
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter and ND filter attached to CZ lens.
:camera defaults to f2 and 1/60sec with no adjustments except "ev"
Method 2
camera set to "manual", "shutter priority" or "aperture priority".
-full manual mode would be recommended.
nightshot "off" (invalid outside of auto mode)
ISO 100 or 200 to suit
IR filter attached to CZ lens
:manual mode allows full control of f-stop and shutter speed to suit. no "ev" adjustments
i hope this helps
--
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
cheers
Zip
=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost
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