Zenfolio versus SmugMug

The finalist in my trials after the Pbase crash. Here is where I am at the moment.

Both have decent uploads, however SmugMug officially does not support Safari. Got it working anyway.

Zen has a 1100 size limit for posting to places like here, Smug does not.

Smug has a sharpening feature for downsized images.

Supposedly both will allow PNG files, at a smallish 23.3 mb, a full size is 120mb. You can pay for a vault service however. It would be nice to process fullsize and save that online as a png in aRGB 16bit. Cuts down an awful lot of separate conversions when post processing.

I successfully uploaded a 23.3 mb PNG to Zen, it tries but the same file fails at Smug.

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is better, but just barely.

Both allow selling images.

Gallery management at both are not as intuitive as at Pbase.

I can upload from Bridge at one not the other, (forgot which now), but it is pretty slow and does not look like I could do it via an action. You have to sign in during upload. The other does this from Lightroom, which I don’t use.

I have not even compared prices, I know one is $149/year for unlimited pro services. That’s not a problem.

The vault service via Amazon seems pretty steep however, not sure if it would be fast enough to be useful. I would probably only use it for keepers, and store my entire set at home on hard drive and DVD as I do now. But putting my keepers on line would be nice.

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

Ben_Egbert said:

Zen has a 1100 size limit for posting to places like here, Smug does not.

Click to expand...

I don't understand... Zenfolio allows you to export any of 9 different sized images. It's only an address after all....

Ben_Egbert said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

Go to "edit my public profile" List of your galleries on the left. Mouse over a name and there's a selection arrow. Just pick rename.... Takes about 10 secs.

Click on any gallery - still in "edit....." - and mouse over any image. Move, copy, delete options as well as others there.

Ben_Egbert said:

Gallery management at both are not as intuitive as at Pbase.

Click to expand...

The Zenfolio help is pretty clear but management could probably be better.

Guess what... After Pbase crashed about a year ago, I moved to Zenfolio. Tried them all and found it best for me.....

Zenfolio help is clear? Not for me. Just for the heck of it and since pbase has been down, I opened a Zenfolio trial account. I can't even figure out how to view other people's galleries without 'searching' on some key word. I see no way to add 'favorite' artists like in pBase, or to view recently added images or view POD. If there are ways, they must be hidden. If I can't find other people's galleries, how would they ever find mine? My guess is they won't.

I belonged to Smugmug for awhile, and it certainly was more stable than pBase, and their 'help' and responses were better , but I didn't find it any faster. I also did not like it's interface as much as pBase. I spent countless hours with CSS perfecting the 'look' I wanted on Smugmug (it didn't take long on pBase), only to have everything ruined when Smugmug decided to 'update' their site. It seems whenever they made updates, it would crap out all my CSS changes which required me to constantly go in and try to figure out what I needed to do so my site displayed the correct colors/format. They certainly tried to be helpful, but it wasn't worth the money for me. Hopefully pBase gets it's act together - for me it's the best site out there in terms of getting your images viewed (when it's up).
Regards,
Kevin
--
pBase...
http://www.pbase.com/keving54

Ben_Egbert said:

I have not even compared prices, I know one is $149/year for unlimited pro services. That’s not a problem.

Click to expand...

You might want to take a look at http://www.ExposureManager.com . Unlimited uploads & storage for $99 / yr, IIRC, lower costs for prints & sales commissions than SM. Fully nestable galleries too, which was one of the things that drove me crazy about SM. I've been with E-M for 3-4 years now, and their support & service is excellent. Only drawback is the limited customization possibilities on gallery display, unless you want to delve into HTML / CSS. ("Skylands" in my sig is a crudely customized E-M site -- it meets my needs. )

I kept my pbase account BTW, and plan on keeping it indefinitely. Despite the warts, I don't think any site has the global reach of pbase -- I see browsers from all over the world all the time.

--
Alan
http://www.skylandsphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/abh
http://www.shutterfreaks.com/gallery/abh

Thanks, early enough for me to try a few more.

Alan Hartmann said:

Ben_Egbert said:

I have not even compared prices, I know one is $149/year for unlimited pro services. That’s not a problem.

Click to expand...

You might want to take a look at http://www.ExposureManager.com . Unlimited uploads & storage for $99 / yr, IIRC, lower costs for prints & sales commissions than SM. Fully nestable galleries too, which was one of the things that drove me crazy about SM. I've been with E-M for 3-4 years now, and their support & service is excellent. Only drawback is the limited customization possibilities on gallery display, unless you want to delve into HTML / CSS. ("Skylands" in my sig is a crudely customized E-M site -- it meets my needs. )

I kept my pbase account BTW, and plan on keeping it indefinitely. Despite the warts, I don't think any site has the global reach of pbase -- I see browsers from all over the world all the time.

--
Alan
http://www.skylandsphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/abh
http://www.shutterfreaks.com/gallery/abh

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

Tony Sx said:

Ben_Egbert said:

Zen has a 1100 size limit for posting to places like here, Smug does not.

Click to expand...

I don't understand... Zenfolio allows you to export any of 9 different sized images. It's only an address after all....

Click to expand...

If I click on image, share, I get several choices of sizes, but the largest is always 1100 even when original is larger. Original is not slectable for share.

Perhaps this is a limit in th etrial version, or pehaps there is another way to link. You said export, not familliar with using export for linking.

Tony Sx said:

Tony Sx said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

Go to "edit my public profile" List of your galleries on the left. Mouse over a name and there's a selection arrow. Just pick rename.... Takes about 10 secs.

Click on any gallery - still in "edit....." - and mouse over any image. Move, copy, delete options as well as others there.

Tony Sx said:

Gallery management at both are not as intuitive as at Pbase.

Click to expand...

The Zenfolio help is pretty clear but management could probably be better.

Click to expand...

Not getting it, been trying for a few minutes, but the only public profile I see is on the right and only visible when in home page. If I click edit, I get only one choice to change the name of home page.

If I mouse over the left side where the gallery names are, and right click, I don't get move. There is a move above, but if you click there, you have to type in the name of the new location.

Tony Sx said:

Guess what... After Pbase crashed about a year ago, I moved to Zenfolio. Tried them all and found it best for me.....

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

I found the move command, it is in photo actions when you have the photo displayed.

Here is one that is 2641x1981 16 bit png in aRGB. The largest size allowed under share is 1100x824 (this one) and is jpg, probably srgb. I am just testing it to see how well is manages the download and color conversion.

It looks fine on my wide gamut monitor in a color aware browser. Need to see what it looks like on a crippled computer lik emy laptop.



--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

Ben_Egbert said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer). Click on a gallery. The Description will be shown on the right-hand side. Click edit, then change title.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), double click on a gallery, and click Edit in the Description section at the right hand side.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), place mouse cursor on gallery thumbnail, click on arrow that appears, then click Edit Description.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), click on the gallery name under its thumbnail, and type in the new name.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), place the cursor over the gallery name on the list at the left-hand side un My Home Page, click on the arrow that appears, then click on Rename.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), click on the gallery name on the list on the left hand side under My Home Page, and then click on Edit in the Description section on the right hand side.

Are these options really that obscure? I am very surprised you could not discover even one of these methods.

The REAL question is how to enable copy/pasting and the arrows keys when typing out a message for this forum.

Got it, printed it out, thanks. I learned to type at age 40, that was 29 years ago, still have to look at the keyboard and type with two fingers.

Different generations have different skill sets.

doady said:

Ben_Egbert said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer). Click on a gallery. The Description will be shown on the right-hand side. Click edit, then change title.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), double click on a gallery, and click Edit in the Description section at the right hand side.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), place mouse cursor on gallery thumbnail, click on arrow that appears, then click Edit Description.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), click on the gallery name under its thumbnail, and type in the new name.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), place the cursor over the gallery name on the list at the left-hand side un My Home Page, click on the arrow that appears, then click on Rename.

OR

Go to My Zenfolio (or Organizer), click on the gallery name on the list on the left hand side under My Home Page, and then click on Edit in the Description section on the right hand side.

Are these options really that obscure? I am very surprised you could not discover even one of these methods.

The REAL question is how to enable copy/pasting and the arrows keys when typing out a message for this forum.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

Ben_Egbert said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time

trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is
better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

On Zenfolio I find that renaming a gallery or copying/moving images from one gallery to another to be extremely simple and fast.

I tried Smugmug before finally choosing Zenfolio. I found Smugmug to much more confusing, not very intuitive, and a nightmare to set up galleries for selling photos such as setting up price lists, adding watermarks, adding textual info to a gallery, etc. It was very frustrating. Zenfolio was so much easier and a better price.

--
Allan in Colorado, USA

aplucini said:

Ben_Egbert said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time

trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is
better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

On Zenfolio I find that renaming a gallery or copying/moving images from one gallery to another to be extremely simple and fast.

I tried Smugmug before finally choosing Zenfolio. I found Smugmug to much more confusing, not very intuitive, and a nightmare to set up galleries for selling photos such as setting up price lists, adding watermarks, adding textual info to a gallery, etc. It was very frustrating. Zenfolio was so much easier and a better price.

--
Allan in Colorado, USA

Click to expand...

Both are very difficult for me, but so was Pbase for the first year. I am about 50 years too old for this to be intuitve. But I will learn it, so thats not the problem.

Right now, the real sticking point against Zen is the 1100 limit for posted images. I would like somebody to tell me it is only a limit for trial users. Maybe I wil email them.

It would also be nice if I could upload full size 16 bit images, but that may be a bandwidth problem anyway for 21mpixel images. I don't do this now at pbase, but I am needing a new hard drive, and having a place for my working PSD files would be nice.

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

I like Zenfolio myself.

Never had any probs with them...and they always respond to any email questions I may ask - extremely quick.

KEV

I have the premium or professional membership (not sure what it's called). This allows me unlimited storage. I'm sure the trial version has restrictions that paid membership doesn't have.

Ben_Egbert said:

Right now, the real sticking point against Zen is the 1100 limit for posted images. I would like somebody to tell me it is only a limit for trial users. Maybe I wil email them.

Click to expand...

--
Allan in Colorado, USA

Ben_Egbert said:

Right now, the real sticking point against Zen is the 1100 limit for posted images. I would like somebody to tell me it is only a limit for trial users. Maybe I wil email them.

Click to expand...

You can share the original upload file on Zenfolio...but you have to enable this function...otherwise 1100 is the biggest limit.

Personally, I wouldn't want to post such a large size on a forum, or normally allow folks to copy it, etc.

This is how I want YOU to view it...

(The full size file is below)

aplucini said:

Ben_Egbert said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time

trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is
better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

On Zenfolio I find that renaming a gallery or copying/moving images from one gallery to another to be extremely simple and fast.

Click to expand...

To rename a gallery in Smugmug, select the Customize option on your gallery



Then change the name of the gallery. seems pretty easy to me.

aplucini said:

I tried Smugmug before finally choosing Zenfolio. I found Smugmug to much more confusing, not very intuitive, and a nightmare to set up galleries for selling photos such as setting up price lists, adding watermarks, adding textual info to a gallery, etc. It was very frustrating. Zenfolio was so much easier and a better price.

Click to expand...

As for setting up pricing - if you set up a "Profile" price list, every gallery you create will automatically default to that price list. You can still set specific pricing for individual images, but you don't have to price every image in every gallery individually.

I believe you had also complained about moving an image in Smugmug. Select the image you want to move, then click Tools and you get several options:



I have a Smugmug Pro account and love it. Their support is second to none and the site is always up and running. They have interfaces that allow you to upload directly from several programs, like Picasa, and Lightroom, as well as a couple different stand-alone uploaders.

Dennis

aplucini said:

--
Allan in Colorado, USA

Click to expand...

--
D80, 18-135, 70-300VR, SB-600, 80-200 AF-S f/2.8
WSSA #83 http://www.DLJonesPhotography.com
Everything that goes around comes around.

Zenfolio is a better place to showcase/sell your work; it's not really a photosharing "community" like Flickr, SmugMug, etc. i.e., you can't really "socialize" on Zen as you can the others.

Zen is to me the closest thing to having my own website without the expense, hassle, and learning how to be a "webmaster". With the Pro account you can even excersize the option of removing the Zenfolio logo from the home page so it looks even more like your own site.

--
Tom, Ohio USA
(Equipment in profile)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuikosan/
http://tbower.zenfolio.com/

'One should not LIVE in the past, but one should never FORGET the past'.

'Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?'
---George Gobel, 1969

aplucini said:

I have the premium or professional membership (not sure what it's called). This allows me unlimited storage. I'm sure the trial version has restrictions that paid membership doesn't have.

Click to expand...

This is not a storage issue. It is the maximum size Zen allows you to link. I have an email from them making that official. They said it may increase in the next year.

aplucini said:

Ben_Egbert said:

Right now, the real sticking point against Zen is the 1100 limit for posted images. I would like somebody to tell me it is only a limit for trial users. Maybe I wil email them.

Click to expand...

--
Allan in Colorado, USA

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

KEVZPHOTOS said:

Ben_Egbert said:

Right now, the real sticking point against Zen is the 1100 limit for posted images. I would like somebody to tell me it is only a limit for trial users. Maybe I wil email them.

Click to expand...

You can share the original upload file on Zenfolio...but you have to enable this function...otherwise 1100 is the biggest limit.

Click to expand...

Hmm, I wonder why they did not explain that in the email I just got saying 1100 was max? Probably a matter of how the question was worded. So you can share the original? All it needs is to be is enabled. Well you prove it. I guess they assume original is always an unreduced jpg at full camera res, but thats not how you do it at Pbase, which is the standard for old timers.

See I could post an original at the largest size I want to post like I do now at Pbase.

IE, I post 1024 high by whatever width the crop ends up, usually 1536. So thats the size of my original.

A smaller size does not work well for landscapes, but is fine for other stuff.

Member said:

Personally, I wouldn't want to post such a large size on a forum, or normally allow folks to copy it, etc.

This is how I want YOU to view it...

Click to expand...

I only want to post at 1024x1536. You could not print a decent landscape at that size. Heck an original just barely has enough pixels to print 16x24.

Member said:

(The full size file is below)

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

Dennis Jones said:

aplucini said:

Ben_Egbert said:

Spent an hour trying to rename a gallery at Zen, and the same amount of time

trying to move an image to another gallery. No instructions I could find. Smug is
better, but just barely.

Click to expand...

On Zenfolio I find that renaming a gallery or copying/moving images from one gallery to another to be extremely simple and fast.

Click to expand...

To rename a gallery in Smugmug, select the Customize option on your gallery



Then change the name of the gallery. seems pretty easy to me.

Dennis Jones said:

I tried Smugmug before finally choosing Zenfolio. I found Smugmug to much more confusing, not very intuitive, and a nightmare to set up galleries for selling photos such as setting up price lists, adding watermarks, adding textual info to a gallery, etc. It was very frustrating. Zenfolio was so much easier and a better price.

Click to expand...

As for setting up pricing - if you set up a "Profile" price list, every gallery you create will automatically default to that price list. You can still set specific pricing for individual images, but you don't have to price every image in every gallery individually.

I believe you had also complained about moving an image in Smugmug. Select the image you want to move, then click Tools and you get several options:



I have a Smugmug Pro account and love it. Their support is second to none and the site is always up and running. They have interfaces that allow you to upload directly from several programs, like Picasa, and Lightroom, as well as a couple different stand-alone uploaders.

Click to expand...

Support is good. I cab't get my head into cataogirues versus menus, and can't figure out which is subordinant to which.

I did find out how to move pictures. I cant find out how to move a gallery from one to another. Your example does not help because it is in catagory terms.

It looks like the gallery is Lakers VS Glendale (I was born in Glendale) But the catagory is sports.

I want a catagory named wildlife, and sub catagory named birds. I can't get bird to go into wildlife because wildlife does not show on the options. Probably because it is a catagory I named.

I did find that when I tried things and nothing happened, the next time I did something it would be there. A delayed action means no feedback, and the feeling that nothing happened.

Dennis Jones said:

Dennis

Dennis Jones said:

--
Allan in Colorado, USA

Click to expand...

--
D80, 18-135, 70-300VR, SB-600, 80-200 AF-S f/2.8
WSSA #83 http://www.DLJonesPhotography.com
Everything that goes around comes around.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben

Looks like the maximum upload size is 24mb, but when I print at home, a 16bit tiff unreduced is 120mb.

What do you do here? Do you sell jpgs? A full size jpg is 9111kb. Guess that fits. Is this what you sell? Do your customers accept prints at 8bit in sRGB?

What is the maximum print size? How is the quality? I have had bad luck at Mpix and other places with color profiles and sharpening so I print my own.

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben