Are all M8 M8.2 Owners Jumping Ship?

The reason I ask is that Ffordes in Scotland have no fewer than 12 M8/M8.2 bodies in their secondhand stock. That's a huge number. Are Leica users really THAT disatisfied with the M8/M8.2? Is the M9 THAT much better?

Meanwhile, my local Leica dealer apparently has 35 M9s pre-sold. Not bad for a £4500 body!

It was only 9 months ago that Dr Kaufmann, CEO of Leica, was saying (in LFI magazine) that the M8's 1.33x crop factor was the best compromise for Leica, and that anyone who wanted a full-frame had been sadly led astray by media hype (or words to that effect).

While it's not uncommon for users to trade in their old cameras when a new model is launched, it's rare to find THAT many examples of the older model on the user market.

You didn't see loads of 40Ds for sale when Canon brought out the 50D, for example - a few, but not double digits from a single retailer.

I own an M8, and have no plans to upgrade. Am I the only one?!

J M Hughes

James M Hughes said:

The reason I ask is that Ffordes in Scotland have no fewer than 12 M8/M8.2 bodies in their secondhand stock. That's a huge number. Are Leica users really THAT disatisfied with the M8/M8.2? Is the M9 THAT much better?

Click to expand...

Two words says it all... Full Frame.

No one wants to use lenses that do not perform at the focal length at which they were designed.

Yes the lenses still perform but a 1.3 crop factor is not desirable.

If money were no object I would have an M9 on order right now.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.

I worked with M9 and I have no plans to upgrade too, little difference.
--
Still Life Photography
http://www.photoshutter.ca

photoshutter said:

I worked with M9 and I have no plans to upgrade - too little difference.

Click to expand...

That's my sense too - and (by implication) Dr Kaufmann's. And yet...!

J M Hughes

Now is a great time to purchase a used M8, if you are the market. THe M9 is hot, new, the latest/greatest. Most of the M9 reviews suggest that M8 IQ is comparable (maybe a stop worse with regards to noise performance), though there are the obvious advantages of more MP (larger prints) and full frame.

I personally am lusting for one, but can't sell the M8 for a bargain basement price. SO I'll be hanging on to it as a backup/second body if and once I get the M9 (which, based on US distribution so far, looks to be a long way off). The European market seems to have gotten many more faster than here....so hence maybe the glut of M8's at Ffordes.
--
Ashwin Rao
My blog: http://photos-ash.blogspot.com
My Flickr Sets: http://flickr.com/photos/ashwinrao1/sets/

No your not the only one although I did sell my M8 last week because I got a crazy offer on a 1 month old M8.2 Chrome complete with full 2 year Passport, in the end the M8.2 only cost me £180 more than I sold my M8 for.

I'm guessing that the reason your seeing a lot of used M8's is because of their value,

folks upgrading to the M9 might need to sell their M8 to help fund their purchase of the M9, maybe ffords are offering a good deal on part-ex.

either way I'm very interested in the M9 and I could just about afford to buy one (if anywhere had them in stock) but I'm going to hold off for now for two reasons, 1: I would like to keep my M8 as well as having the M9 ( at present I can't afford to have both) 2: To be honest I'm not sure the M9 is going to give me anything more than my M8 does.

The one thing for me that I think will push me in to buying an M9 is the full frame, not that I'm unhappy with a cropped sensor it's just that the frame lines for a lens which gives a 35mm angle of view (around a 28mm lens) is very hard to frame for some one who wears glasses.

In concept I'd like one too - who wouldn't? But I think its prudent to get more user feedback and establish a solid idea of the IQ. I enjoy my M8 but there are many times it isn't fully up to the task (low light, flexibility, studio work etc). For the same dough I think I'd rather upgrade to a Canon 1DsIV. It will all come down to IQ/$ I think.
--
http://www.pbase.com/edward_in_chicago/root

but I have to admit that I am looking forward to my lenses being full frame again. Using a M6 and M7 for years the M8 seemed like I was looking in a tunnel but took/takes excellent images. I did miss the wide angle and even had to buy a 21mm for the M8 and looking forward to using it on the M9.

I an getting impatient waiting for my M9 and thinking of calling PopFlash to add the X1 to my bag.
--
Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida

In fact, I bought another M8.

I picked up a 2nd M8 body, brand new from an authorized dealer, for US$2997 when all the M9 hype hit the forums in August.

I figured an identical back-up body would give me flexibility when shooting and for any future repair issues. Knowing I could own two M8 bodies for less than the price of a single M9 was too hard to resist.

More importantly, the M8 gives me the results I want (the 1.33 crop issue is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned--it actually represents the best of both worlds--and more pixels are of no use to me ).

The IQ is the only thing that ultimately counts, so I thought I'd experience some remorse when the M9 hit the street. Now that I have seen sample M9 images, I am quite surprised, because I thought the IQ improvement would have been significant and so far seems only marginal. I hope this impression is false because 3 years in the digital camera world is a long time and you'd expect a big improvement in IQ. I don't want to discount the achievement of cramming a FF sensor into the M body, but in the end, what's the point, if the IQ improvement isn't there?

Either way, I think now is a good time for those who have wanted to enter the digital rangefinder scene to pick up a lightly used M8 and a nice CV lens--and go photograph in bliss.

Peter.

--
Peter | QDIEM4SC
http://qdiem4sc.zenfolio.com/

James M Hughes said:

The reason I ask is that Ffordes in Scotland have no fewer than 12 M8/M8.2 bodies in their secondhand stock. That's a huge number. Are Leica users really THAT disatisfied with the M8/M8.2? Is the M9 THAT much better?

Meanwhile, my local Leica dealer apparently has 35 M9s pre-sold. Not bad for a £4500 body!

It was only 9 months ago that Dr Kaufmann, CEO of Leica, was saying (in LFI magazine) that the M8's 1.33x crop factor was the best compromise for Leica, and that anyone who wanted a full-frame had been sadly led astray by media hype (or words to that effect).

While it's not uncommon for users to trade in their old cameras when a new model is launched, it's rare to find THAT many examples of the older model on the user market.

You didn't see loads of 40Ds for sale when Canon brought out the 50D, for example - a few, but not double digits from a single retailer.

I own an M8, and have no plans to upgrade. Am I the only one?!

J M Hughes

Click to expand...

HI Jim,

Twelve does sound like a few extras, but I suspect that there are some coincidences involved in the stacking up. The thing to watch is how fast they get sold. Mine isn't going anywhere, but then I have an M5 from 1984, too.

I don't think using the Canon APS series as an example is valid, since there isn't anything unique involved and those prices really drop, making it more practical to keep or pass on, rather than sell off.
--
Bob

...I just bought a new M8.2 and am loving it. If you look at some of the buy & sell boards, you'll see plenty of "WTB: M8" ads. I personally have zero problems with the 1.3x crop factor. Cheers. -Norm

James M Hughes said:

The reason I ask is that Ffordes in Scotland have no fewer than 12 M8/M8.2 bodies in their secondhand stock. That's a huge number. Are Leica users really THAT disatisfied with the M8/M8.2? Is the M9 THAT much better?

Meanwhile, my local Leica dealer apparently has 35 M9s pre-sold. Not bad for a £4500 body!

It was only 9 months ago that Dr Kaufmann, CEO of Leica, was saying (in LFI magazine) that the M8's 1.33x crop factor was the best compromise for Leica, and that anyone who wanted a full-frame had been sadly led astray by media hype (or words to that effect).

While it's not uncommon for users to trade in their old cameras when a new model is launched, it's rare to find THAT many examples of the older model on the user market.

You didn't see loads of 40Ds for sale when Canon brought out the 50D, for example - a few, but not double digits from a single retailer.

I own an M8, and have no plans to upgrade. Am I the only one?!

J M Hughes

Click to expand...

I was in RG Lewis in London yesterday and they commented that they sold all (14 I think they said) of the M9s they had within 20 minutes of them arriving on day one. I get the impression that it's not just Leica owners trading up, but also FF dSLR owners who want something much more compact and discrete.
--
http://jonschick.smugmug.com/

Same here. Have an M8.0 and will wait for a future version before making the switch. Or perhaps when M10 comes out, M( price will be more reasonable.

--
Martin Herrera
[email protected]
http://www.MartinHSPhoto.com

I purchased a M8.2 a few months back and I have no plans to upgrade currently. I'm happy with the IQ of the M8.

Cheers!
-raaj
--
'Change is not Mandatory, you don't have to Survive...'

1. No, not at all; and, some of those getting rid of their perfectly good M8/M8.2 Bodies, will likely do so at a lost, based on what they paid for them; they're worth more as a second leica Digital M Body, IMO ------ unless, one needs to sell the M8/M8.2 to purchase a Leica M9, and will get a reasonable price for their M8/M8.2.

2. As, in my case, I have pre-ordered an M9; but, intend to keep my M8.2 as a backup Leica M digital Body, and for use with my Leica 90mm lenses, to include the Leica 135mm lens (should I purchase this lens as well). Same as with my Nikon DX Bodies, I prefer the Crop sensor when using a telephoto lens; and, for this same reason, there will be times when I shoot just with Leicas, I will use both my M8.2 with my longest lens attached and my M9 with my widest lens attached --- and this eliminates the need to change lenses, as well ------ quite useful in certain shooting situations.

--
BRJR ....(LOL, some of us are quite satisfied as Hobbyists ..)

James M Hughes said:

The reason I ask is that Ffordes in Scotland have no fewer than 12 M8/M8.2 bodies in their secondhand stock. That's a huge number. Are Leica users really THAT disatisfied with the M8/M8.2? Is the M9 THAT much better?

Meanwhile, my local Leica dealer apparently has 35 M9s pre-sold. Not bad for a £4500 body!

It was only 9 months ago that Dr Kaufmann, CEO of Leica, was saying (in LFI magazine) that the M8's 1.33x crop factor was the best compromise for Leica, and that anyone who wanted a full-frame had been sadly led astray by media hype (or words to that effect).

While it's not uncommon for users to trade in their old cameras when a new model is launched, it's rare to find THAT many examples of the older model on the user market.

You didn't see loads of 40Ds for sale when Canon brought out the 50D, for example - a few, but not double digits from a single retailer.

I own an M8, and have no plans to upgrade. Am I the only one?!

J M Hughes

Click to expand...

Looking all over ebay for possible more items, to fit my new M6, I was shocked by the amount of "as new", "just upgraded to 8.2 spec at Leica", "barely used" M8s.

I too was shocked by the prices, they seem to sell/ or not seem to sell. I saw them sell as low as 2000,- EUR !!!

It surely is tempting, to buy a used M8 now. But I will stand strong for a full frame purchase in some distant future.

A better 35 mm scanner seems as a better improvement of quality to me at the moment. You can buy the best Coolscan with two M film bodies of choice and still not scratch the M9 price!
--
http://www.teknopunk.com
http://www.teknopunk.com/load.meter.shutterspeed.aperture.shoot/

Jim Radcliffe said:

Two words says it all... Full Frame.

No one wants to use lenses that do not perform at the focal length at which they were designed .

Yes the lenses still perform but a 1.3 crop factor is not desirable .

Click to expand...

(Emphasis mine...)

I think that's a gross generalization. A lens is just glass, metal, plastic, and grease. I have about a dozen lenses I can use on my M8. I don't worry about making them work the way they did on FF. I worry about making them work the way they should with the camera I happen to be shooting with (M8 or M6). The three lenses I use the most are a Zeiss 25, a 35mm Summicron ASPH, and a 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH.

When thinking about the M9 I realize that I'd miss the 50mm in particular. I rarely used it when I had a pair of M6s, but I use it quite a bit with the M8. (I guess I could crop M9 photos taken with a 50mm, but then the camera wouldn't be performing as designed .)

Beyond those three, a new C/V 15mm gets me into a nice wide FOV, and I have a 75mm C/V I can use when needed.

Determining that the 1.3 crop factor is "not desirable" is, in large part, a self-inflicted wound.

menos said:

Looking all over ebay for possible more items, to fit my new M6, I was shocked by the amount of "as new", "just upgraded to 8.2 spec at Leica", "barely used" M8s.

I too was shocked by the prices, they seem to sell/ or not seem to sell. I saw them sell as low as 2000,- EUR !!!

It surely is tempting, to buy a used M8 now. But I will stand strong for a full frame purchase in some distant future.

Click to expand...

When I bought my M8 about eighteen months ago, I firmly believed (or hoped!) it might be one of the few digital cameras that did not lose its value. I reached this conclusion after seeing the way the Epson RD-1 held its value due to lack of competition.

Seems I was wrong. The M8.2 devalued it, and the M9 has kicked it into touch. Now, with so many used M8s and M8.2s on the market, the price will almost certainly drop further.

Even the high cost of the M9 won't make much difference to the selling prices of used M8s - unless of course the M9 suffers a steep price rise at some future date, and becomes totally unaffordable - as opposed to relatively unaffordable - LOL!

But your last bit about waiting to get a full-frame M says it all - rightly or wrongly, that's what most M users want. The M8/M8.2 are seen as flawed cameras - not 'real' M bodies.

menos said:

A better 35 mm scanner seems as a better improvement of quality to me at the moment. You can buy the best Coolscan with two M film bodies of choice and still not scratch the M9 price!

Click to expand...

I agree - film is definitely an option. Scanned on something of Coolscan quality, you can get fabulous tonality from film that even good digital struggles to equal.

J M Hughes

ljclark said:

Determining that the 1.3 crop factor is "not desirable" is, in large part, a self-inflicted wound.

Click to expand...

I totally agree - and so too (it would seem) does Dr Kaufmann CEO of Leica, who opined that those wanting full frame had perhaps been the victim of media hype.

At the same time, Jim Radcliffe is absolutely correct - many digital M users (a significant majority, it seems) want full frame, and are prepared to pay whatever price is necessary to get it.

J M Hughes

ljclark said:

Determining that the 1.3 crop factor is "not desirable" is, in large part, a self-inflicted wound.

Click to expand...

No, not self-inflicted at all. Leica did that. A rush to market with a camera that had several issues.

And I will guarantee you that given a choice between a FF M and cropped sensor M 9 out of 10 photographers will take the FF M.

The fact that you are happy with you cropped sensor is wonderful... but a cropped sensor is still not deisreable by most photographers, myself included.

We can just agree to disagree on this topic.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.