Farewell to SuperCCD sensor

Canon S90 and its preview on this site were pretty much discussed in last couple of days here, in news forum, and also in Canon one. A lot of people wrote that S90 is a big puff, huge disappointment. One didn't like high ISO night shot, and others mentioned that their 3-4 years old models do better (personally, I seriously doubt that). What an awfull low-iso performance!! Not a single object shot sharp!!

Another users adviced to buy Fuji F70 instead of Canon S90, because of SuperCCD's sensor mythical performance...
And now - the news. Fuji F70 sample gallery. Where to begin?

First of all, look at the sample N4 - now that's what I call purple fringing!

Then - at sample N3. Download full-size file and tell me, where, in which way is it better in comparision with S90. I'd say, it's far worse.

Last of all, maybe there is some magic low-noise mode to do clear night shots? Or, at least, shoot at home without flash? The sample N24 says - NO! There is no magic in this world, just a 20-tonns-heavy NR and rough downsampling.

So, I guess, it's time to say farewell to SuperCCD technology and Fuji as a benchmark for quality low- and high-ISO images.

I understand, that F70 uses a smaller sensor, than S90. I also think that overall quality of F70 is good - for compact superzoom p&s - but, as I've already said, far from the best.

What do you people think??

There is no comparisons between the two - it is not a review, just a sample gallery. Not even a mention of "superior high ISO" or something like that - it is currently just a smallest 10X P&S. And for such, it does a great job as far as I am concerned, be it super smart NR or whatever. SCCD, despite clever design, has it downsides. One being a super fast processor to do all the interpolation work to produce a "square" jpeg. It;s an open market there and nobody has 9 seconds to wait for RAF to be written like on S9500. People like numbers and that is what buried SCCD, starting from the fact SR 12 MP SCCD is "only" 6 MP - not impressive in 2009.

Nevertheless, if you feel Canon is better, just buy what suits you. I saw the Fuji thing - OMG it IS small.

Hello Oleg,

Oleg Ivanovskiy said:

First of all, look at the sample N4 - now that's what I call purple fringing!

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Surely, purple fringing is a problem of the lens and not of the sensor ?

Frankly, the design of the sensor with its pixel-doubles for other purposes (DR, high sensitivity) is an extremely clever idea and some of the pictures I've seen are quite impressive. If they'd use the camera in a "photographers' compact" like the Ricoh GR-D iii or the Panasonic LX3, it'd become a proposition that's hard to resist.

Peter.

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gallery at http://picasaweb.google.com/peterleyssens

Would a better comparison not be with the f200EXR? They have an almost identical pixel density and are much closer in zoom range.

Check out the review at Imaging Resource
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/F200EXR/F200EXRA.HTM
...anything but a stellar reference.

And no, Peter, PF is not just a lens problem. In fact, the super CCD line has suffered from PF issues since its inception. Folks just seem to ignore it.

Rick

Fish323 said:

Would a better comparison not be with the f200EXR? They have an almost identical pixel density and are much closer in zoom range.

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Perhaps I missed it but I didn't see the side by side comparison shots?

...............is that my LX3 is still right up there and all I'm gonna do is sit back and watch the nitpicking.

I would have to agree. I was looking forward to the S90 if only for Canon colors. The sample shots have been a huge disappointment. They seem to have taken the Canon color out of this camera. Settings? Adjustments? We will have to see more images after it becomes available.

The S90 photos appear soft and most of the samples are anything but sharp.

Until I see some S90 shots that impress me I will be more than happy to keep my LX3. No rush for me.

RickS said:

And no, Peter, PF is not just a lens problem. In fact, the super CCD line has suffered from PF issues since its inception. Folks just seem to ignore it.

Rick

Fish323 said:

Would a better comparison not be with the f200EXR? They have an almost identical pixel density and are much closer in zoom range.

Click to expand...

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As well noted on the DPR review, you don't buy a F200EXR based upon the quoted 12MP density. You buy a F200EXR for the dynamic range performance; the 12MP HR mode has not impressed most, if not all, reviewers as well as users but if you go on to the Fuji boards you'll find everyone (including myself) using it in a 6MP forced-DR mode.

Fish323 said:

Would a better comparison not be with the f200EXR? They have an almost identical pixel density and are much closer in zoom range.

Click to expand...

I understand that it's not a fair play. But still - a person or two mentioned that new compact from Fuji will surely be better in IQ, than S90. What I see is that it is certainly not so.

I've also heard an opinion that IXUS 400 shoots better than S90. Or even some 4 years old Kodak. Just wondering - what will be next - aluminium beer can maybe??

dinoSnake said:

As well noted on the DPR review, you don't buy a F200EXR based upon the quoted 12MP density. You buy a F200EXR for the dynamic range performance; the 12MP HR mode has not impressed most, if not all, reviewers as well as users but if you go on to the Fuji boards you'll find everyone (including myself) using it in a 6MP forced-DR mode.

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I didn't buy one for myself but for my mum. I am looking for a camera which can replace my G7 and my f31 and probably my Minolta 7D. Hope the new G11 will cut the mustard but not holding my breath. G7 = great camera with terrible sensor. f31 terrible camera with great sensor. Minolta 7D no live view.

GF1!!! Now there's an interesting proposition. Wonder if it comes with a waterproof case?

Fish323 said:

I didn't buy one for myself but for my mum. I am looking for a camera which can replace my G7 and my f31 and probably my Minolta 7D. Hope the new G11 will cut the mustard but not holding my breath. G7 = great camera with terrible sensor. f31 terrible camera with great sensor. Minolta 7D no live view.

GF1!!! Now there's an interesting proposition. Wonder if it comes with a waterproof case?

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Contrary to the IR review, but in-line with the DPR review, the F200EXR can take great photos. It simply (as noted in the IR review, actually) not "point and shoot" simple to actually get those shots; like an "prosumer" camera, it requires user input. The F200EXR performs best if you treat it as a prosumer in a P&S body - brains required.

I am sorry but I see in your post deliberate mix of healthy and rotten apples.

F70 is NOT comparable to F200. That's obvious to anybody observing the still camera market and having distance to dubious market partitioning.

I really do not care which camera is "entry level professional bridge for enthusiasts" or similar nonsense still forced around.

The problem is that at the moment the F200 seems to be withdrawn from continuous supply. Same as Panasonic's LX3 dirty marketing style. Some say, that Canon S90 will be marketed in the same dirty style.

Sooner or later it will end with the high level inquires for market fixing offenses.
Can we, as the consumers, help heal the problem sooner?
(-)

i read your link and it mentioned many nice things about the image IQ

when i saw the samples it OMG !! the horse statue esp looks 3Dish

Fuji had good sensors because of their relatively low pixel density. New cameras have just average (that is: bad/high) pixel density which means they are not good.

F10,11,20,30,31 were nice because of low pixel density (for a compact) and clever NR.

Low density SuperCCDs = excellent
High density SuperCCDs = bad
--
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http://tom.st , http://www.foto.tom.st ,
http://pixel-peeping-tom.deviantart.com

Oleg Ivanovskiy said:

Fish323 said:

Would a better comparison not be with the f200EXR? They have an almost identical pixel density and are much closer in zoom range.

Click to expand...

I understand that it's not a fair play. But still - a person or two mentioned that new compact from Fuji will surely be better in IQ, than S90. What I see is that it is certainly not so.

Click to expand...

I think that it makes more sense to compare cameras that are intended for a similar purpose, regardless of the technical details. In this sense F70EXR, S90, and LX3 will be competing for the same users - people that care more about the IQ than the megapixels, and want a small pocketable package. The choice will be between these cameras, and not between F70EXR and F200EXR.

Tortellino said:

I think that it makes more sense to compare cameras that are intended for a similar purpose, regardless of the technical details. In this sense F70EXR, S90, and LX3 will be competing for the same users - people that care more about the IQ than the megapixels, and want a small pocketable package. The choice will be between these cameras, and not between F70EXR and F200EXR.

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They all intended for the same purpose of taking photos. Therefore we separate cameras on their technical details. That is unless you know of other reasons why people buy cameras? To pose with perhaps?

Fish323 said:

Fish323 said:

I think that it makes more sense to compare cameras that are intended for a similar purpose, regardless of the technical details. In this sense F70EXR, S90, and LX3 will be competing for the same users - people that care more about the IQ than the megapixels, and want a small pocketable package. The choice will be between these cameras, and not between F70EXR and F200EXR.

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They all intended for the same purpose of taking photos. Therefore we separate cameras on their technical details. That is unless you know of other reasons why people buy cameras? To pose with perhaps?

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Well, I finally managed to open F200 sample gallerie. Found pictures with trees and leaves. At 100% magnification it looks exactly as bad, as S90. The same blur, the same lens softness, the same noise reduction at base iso. (pictures 7&8).

After all this talk about "mushy" S90 and awesome F200, and unfair comparision I expected something better.
Just my opinion.

Oleg Ivanovskiy said:

I understand, that F70 uses a smaller sensor, than S90. I also think that overall quality of F70 is good - for compact superzoom p&s - but, as I've already said, far from the best.

What do you people think??

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From Amazon F70 = 248$, S90 = 429$

Fish323 said:

Fish323 said:

I think that it makes more sense to compare cameras that are intended for a similar purpose, regardless of the technical details. In this sense F70EXR, S90, and LX3 will be competing for the same users - people that care more about the IQ than the megapixels, and want a small pocketable package. The choice will be between these cameras, and not between F70EXR and F200EXR.

Click to expand...

They all intended for the same purpose of taking photos. Therefore we separate cameras on their technical details. That is unless you know of other reasons why people buy cameras? To pose with perhaps?

Click to expand...

Your rudeness is uncalled-for. I stated my opinion which you decided to mock using rather broad generalizations that were not warranted by the content of my post if you read them carefully.