Swingline
Leading Member
I learned something today: to transfer (part of a business, esp. the profitable part of a nationalized industry) to new ownership. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hive+off
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Re: Sinar assets spun off to two new companies
- Thread starter Swingline
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Joseph S Wisniewski
Forum Pro
Not for some time, I'd say...
Have a look at http://www.sinar.ch/
There are 6 products accessible from the front page, all of which are medium format...
- Hy6 - a Rollei 6008 based MF body with Jenoptik back
- arTec - a sliding back, tilt/shift architectural body
- m HR 28 EF - an ultrawide (by MF standards) configuration of the m body
- m - a modular SLR that can take a variety of MF backs, MF lenses and 35mm lenses
- p3/m - an insanely precise, but tragically flawed, MF view camera
- p3 sliding back - a necessity for using a MF view camera, once you realize that 2 frames/second isn't really "liveview".
- f3 - a MF "field" (lightweight view) camera
- f3 SL - an even lighter MF field camera
I have a feeling that p3, Hy6, and arTec have been the largest part of Sinar revenue for a while now.
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Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.
Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.
Ciao! Joseph
http://www.swissarmyfork.com
Grevture
Senior Member
Not since the those dark days of chemical photography ...
I have never seen one of these things live, and only have a vague idea how they operate ... But just out of curiosity, in what way(s?) is it flawed?
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!
By the way, film is not dead.
It just smell funny
Joseph S Wisniewski
Forum Pro
Are you familiar with view cameras in general?Not since the those dark days of chemical photography ...
I have never seen one of these things live, and only have a vague idea how they operate ... But just out of curiosity, in what way(s?) is it flawed?
On the Sinar, only swing (left and right turning) goes approximately through the lens or sensor axis, so you can swing left or right without disturbing overall focus. Tilt (up or down turning) is so far off axis that it makes a "technical camera" hinged front look good. Huge focus shifts with just a little tilt. To use a camera like that, you end up having to pull out a string and "project" some angles from subject plane, lens board, and sensor plane to visualize where you need to set the tilt.
For most product or architectural work, I can see mounting the thing sideways to get the centered motions on the more useful horizontal axises. But that puts those "ergonomic" controls that Sinar brags about underneath the camera.
Arca Swiss may make a bulkier, and all around uglier, camera, but it's centered on both axises.
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.
Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.
Ciao! Joseph
http://www.swissarmyfork.com
Grevture
Senior Member
Slightly more familiar then as in "seen one on a postcard"
Ah, I can see your point.
As in the Arca Swiss R-cameras you mean?
I have to admit I have so far loosely called all these cameras "technical cameras", as in "camera with some sort of flexible bellows arrangement to enable tilt/shift" ... But you seem to make more distinctions then that?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it!
By the way, film is not dead.
It just smell funny
Joseph S Wisniewski
Forum Pro
The R is a compact 6x9 MF body with full movements (tilt, swing, shift, rise and fall) only on the front standard. There's no rear movements. Tilt and swing are very limited, about 10 degrees.Slightly more familiar then as in "seen one on a postcard"
Ah, I can see your point.
As in the Arca Swiss R-cameras you mean?
The Arca I enjoyed using has their "Orbix" goniometer movements on the front and rear standards. That's a curved track mechanism that lets you tilt the standard 20 degrees without shifting focus. You can get them on both the small M and larger F systems.
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.
Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.
Ciao! Joseph
http://www.swissarmyfork.com
Joseph S Wisniewski
Forum Pro
The "technical camera" is a pretty specific type of camera. It does have a bellows, but the rear part is an immovable box, only the front part tilts, shifts, swings, etc. It's also an obsolete term, no one has made what we used to call a "technical camera" in years.I have to admit I have so far loosely called all these cameras "technical cameras", as in "camera with some sort of flexible bellows arrangement to enable tilt/shift" ... But you seem to make more distinctions then that?
Usage tends to vary from country to country, and sometimes from school to school. The term "view camera" is very old. It used to refer to what you describe, any camera that lets you "view" what you're actually going to shoot through the main lens, by swapping out the film holder for a ground glass (as opposed to an SLR).
Under the old definition, everything that we call a "field camera", "press camera", or "technical camera" is also a view camera. And those pretty monorail Arca, Sinar, Toyo, Linhoff, Horseman, etc. cameras are also view cameras. But that gets really confusing. So, these days, we tend to break everything down into two categories, "view camera" and "field camera". The "view camera" has movements on both standards, and is a relatively large, heavy contraption, typically with a "rail" that the standards move on. It's mostly aluminum. The "field camera" folds up. It has a flat "bed" instead of a rail, the "bed" is the front part of a flat wooden box that houses the film holder and ground glass. The front standard is hinged, and rises up at the end of the bed.
Each standard on a view camera can have up to five movements:
- tilt - literally tilting forward or back. Tilt is almost always from the bottom of the standard, so when you tilt, the lens also moves closer or farther from the film plane, and focus shifts. That's because the tilt mechanism is usually under the standard. The Linhoff Kardan uses a yoke or "side arm" tilt that doesn't shift focus.
- swing - turning left or right. Swing almost always pivots through the center of the center of the lens, so it doesn't affect focus. It's easy to build the swing mechanism that way.
- rise and fall - the standard moves up and down parallel to the film plane, changing perspective without changing focus.
- shift - the standard moves left and right parallel to the film plane.
- rack - the standard moves towards or away from the other standard, allowing you to focus.
An Arca Swiss M, Sinar P, or Linhoff Kardan Master are good examples of modern view cameras with the full 11 movements. Of these, only the Sinar doesn't have a decent solution to the problem of focus shift when tilting a standard.
Here's some cameras with more limited movements, past and present.
- Press camera - those were wooden or metal boxes, a bit bigger than the film size, a couple of inches thick. The "Speed Graphic" is the classic press camera. The bed folded down, like a tongue sticking out from the box, and the front standard then folds up from that. It was the classic "folding camera" format. They often had multiple viewing systems (ground glass on the rear standard, optical viewfinder, wire frame finder) and some even had coupled rangefinders. The front standard may only rack to focus, or it may also be able to rise to correct perspective, and maybe even tilt. If it can tilt, the tilt is from the very bottom of the front standard, so tilting shifts the camera out of focus. Some had both leaf shutter in the lens and focal plane shutter, and it may have a multiple sheet film magazine, to make life easier for the newspaper photographer. A press photographer could whip off people shots with the coupled rangefinder, or use rise for nicely perspective corrected "establishing" shots of building interiors or exteriors. An ace photographers could do things like using tilt to increases the apparent DOF on something like a crime scene.
- Technical camera - that's the press camera with a bit move movements, maybe at the cost of stripping some of the "reporter" features like the multiple viewing systems. It's a word that came into use as reporters stopped using folding view cameras, and the folding view camera makers needed a name to call their cameras by that was no longer connected to photojournalism. To me, the Linhoff Technika pretty much defines the "technical camera". The bed may be longer than the press camera, and the front standard may be able to fall (shift downward) a bit in addition to being able to rise. It can definitely tilt forward and back. Some can also swing the front standard left and right.
- Field camera - Those still have the folding box construction, were generally more precise instruments, and had the best possible range of front standard movements, but the rear standard was still part of the "box" that you carried the camera in, and typically didn't move much. Some of them were big, a friend of mine had an 11x14 Deardorf (or is it Dierdorf?). The Wista is a wonderful example of the modern field camera, it has the ability to tilt the rear box. This still affects focus, but it doesn't throw composition off the way tilting the front box does...
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.
Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.
Ciao! Joseph
http://www.swissarmyfork.com
WOW! Talk about being out of touch. I guess I was living under a rock for a while. I had no idea or I only wanted to look at the large format stuff since it was film and not that evil "digital" stuff.
I disagree about the comments made about off-axis tilts and swings on the Sinar P series.
The correct way to use either is to focus on a point corresponding to
an indicated position on the groundglass and then turn the knob on the rear standard to bring other point into focus. The initial focus point does not move -- and as the tilt is made, the second point (which defines the angle of the plane) comes into focus. The same is true for the swing. The mistake some people make is to focus in the center of the groundglass and then tilt/swing the lens to find the plane of sharp focus desired. This may work for other cameras but it completely defeats the elegant system incorporated in the Sinar.
If the rear standard is to be kept at a certain
angle, the correction can be tranferred to the lens standard (assuming the lens has
sufficient coverage).
Rather than having to drop lines and measure distances, the calibrated focusing system of the Sinar can actually generate the information necessary to determine
the angles necessary -- which can then be set either on the front or rear standard or split between the two.
I have used both center and base tilt cameras, none are as convenient or precise as
the Sinar.
Perhaps you are remembering the Sinar Norma cameras (prior to the P and F series)
which had base tilts and on-axis swings.
The correct way to use either is to focus on a point corresponding to
an indicated position on the groundglass and then turn the knob on the rear standard to bring other point into focus. The initial focus point does not move -- and as the tilt is made, the second point (which defines the angle of the plane) comes into focus. The same is true for the swing. The mistake some people make is to focus in the center of the groundglass and then tilt/swing the lens to find the plane of sharp focus desired. This may work for other cameras but it completely defeats the elegant system incorporated in the Sinar.
If the rear standard is to be kept at a certain
angle, the correction can be tranferred to the lens standard (assuming the lens has
sufficient coverage).
Rather than having to drop lines and measure distances, the calibrated focusing system of the Sinar can actually generate the information necessary to determine
the angles necessary -- which can then be set either on the front or rear standard or split between the two.
I have used both center and base tilt cameras, none are as convenient or precise as
the Sinar.
Perhaps you are remembering the Sinar Norma cameras (prior to the P and F series)
which had base tilts and on-axis swings.
Barrie Davis
Forum Pro
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Regards,
Baz
Regards,
Baz
Barrie Davis
Forum Pro
I agree.
When you know how to do it, the sophisticated Sinar "asymmetric" system, which is neither base nor lens-axis centred, is quick and flexible, and you certainly DON'T lose focus.
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Regards,
Baz
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