What a day! or maybe I should say....

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Jim Radcliffe

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What a Crazy Day!

I've read with much amusement and interest the posts praising and knocking Leica's new offerings. I've spent free time throughout the day reading posts here and on other forums regarding today's unveiling of the M9 and X1.

The Signal to Noise Ratio is Out of this World

People are going nuts over both of these cameras without having touched them at all. They've yet to use them or process a file yet they seem to either love them or hate them. I'm going to wait and see what some of the talented photographers here and in other forums do with the M9. I'll have to wait a bit longer to see what the X1 user does with it.

Leica Should Be Applauded for the M9

For a company that is known to move at a snail's pace and resist change, Leica acted as swiftly as they could to correct the deficiencies of the M8. Round of applause for them. In addition, they stayed true to their belief in the M line and appear to have not compromised their own standards.. more applause, please. Whether you love or hate Leica you have to appreciate their determination to be true to the marque. I have no doubt that further improvements will be made down the road.

The X1.. is a First Step

The X1 is such a welcome thing to see. A compact camera built to Leica standards in Solms with no doubt as to its pedigree. I am so happy to see this camera just because it proves that Leica recognizes the need for an entry level camera and filled a gap previously occupied by Panasonic. I think the X1 will be a success just because of its simplicity and Leica build. And more than a few will appreciate the auto-focus. The entry price, while steep compared to other camera makers is cheap when you consider it is a true Leica and all that entails.

The GF1 may offer more options for less money but it's not a Leica. I hate to sound like a FanBoy here, because I am not, as many here know, but I do understand the history and the mindset of Leica when it comes to actually making a camera rather than rebadging one. Love it or hate it, you have to appreciate the effort that went into the X1 on Leica's part.

The constant DSLR vs Range Finder Discussion

Isn't it funny that the DSLR crowd comes in droves when Leica releases a new digital rangefinder? They come more often to argue its shortcomings (compared to a DSLR) than anything else.. and most of those shortcomings are from the eyes of a DSLR user looking at an alien object they don't quite comprehend. Best advice.. ignore them.. no point in arguing, they will eventually go away and enjoy toting their 25 pound camera bags again and firing off 7 frames a second.

The Proof of Success Will Be in Sales

I believe that both cameras will sell well. The M9, though out of my price range, is the M Digital we all wanted to begin with. The X1 is the less expensive entry level camera we all wanted (minus interchangeable lenses). I think both of these cameras might end up with a waiting list.

Did I forget to mention the S2?

No, not really. It's not for those of us who inhabit this forum. I wish Leica the best with it. I'm sure Seal will enjoy his, after all he got a great price on it!

What a Crazy Day and now we head into a Crazy Night

The forums will be buzzing and arguing for some time but I'm just waiting for real photos taken by talented photographers to appear. That's what it's all about anyway, the photographer and the images he produces with these new cameras.

You can argue specs all day but in the end, the images will speak for both the M9 and the X1. Don't suck up the samples posted by DPReview as the best that the M9 can produce.. wait and see what real photographers do with it. (No offense intended to the DPReview staff)

Thanks, Leica for one of the most interesting days in a long time.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
You have a lot of experience with "small cameras" and it mattered to me what you thought. Will you be getting a X1?
--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
You have a lot of experience with "small cameras" and it mattered to me what you thought. Will you be getting a X1?
Michael, I may buy and X1.. and then again I may start an M9 fund. At the same time I am also drawn to the GF1. I don't buy on impulse. I'll take a wait and see attitude toward both the M9 and the X1. If money were no object the answer would be yes to both as I believe both will be very capable cameras.

I never buy a camera based on specs. Every purchase I have ever made has been based on what images a camera is capable of producing. That's what I am really waiting to see.. the photographs.

I don't print huge images so that is not an issue at all. It's the ability of the camera to produce an image that I personally find strikes a chord with me. Maybe a better description of what turns me on is the photographic signature of a given camera. It's hard to describe.
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
Thanks for your summary there - long but yet succinct :-). I live in Singapore so after the presentation (I now wish nothing had been leaked because it would then have had a lot more impact!) I decided to watch a movie and then sleep - or was persuaded to do so by my wife. So I missed all the immediate hoopla.

I too have started my M9 fund and I know I will probably have to surrender one of my camera's - probably film. I will probably keep my D-Lux 4 for now and skip the X1 for now.

--
  • Vikas
 
You have a lot of experience with "small cameras" and it mattered to me what you thought. Will you be getting a X1?
Michael, I may buy and X1.. and then again I may start an M9 fund. At the same time I am also drawn to the GF1. I don't buy on impulse. I'll take a wait and see attitude toward both the M9 and the X1. If money were no object the answer would be yes to both as I believe both will be very capable cameras.

I never buy a camera based on specs. Every purchase I have ever made has been based on what images a camera is capable of producing. That's what I am really waiting to see.. the photographs.

I don't print huge images so that is not an issue at all.
It's the ability of the camera to produce an image that I personally find strikes a chord with me. Maybe a better description of what turns me on is the photographic signature of a given camera. It's hard to describe.*
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
Agreed, I want to see some prints..especially from the X-1. If it has that magic Leica fingerprint I will get one. No, it can't be described but when you see it...it is an ah ha moment and is captivating. :-)
 
What a Crazy Day!
Agreed ;)
The Signal to Noise Ratio is Out of this World

People are going nuts over both of these cameras without having touched them at all. They've yet to use them or process a file yet they seem to either love them or hate them. I'm going to wait and see what some of the talented photographers here and in other forums do with the M9. I'll have to wait a bit longer to see what the X1 user does with it.
I respect your opinion and insights, and enjoy your posts. But I think you lose your "wait and see" attitude within another paragraph or two...
Leica Should Be Applauded for the M9

For a company that is known to move at a snail's pace and resist change, Leica acted as swiftly as they could to correct the deficiencies of the M8. Round of applause for them. In addition, they stayed true to their belief in the M line and appear to have not compromised their own standards.. more applause, please. Whether you love or hate Leica you have to appreciate their determination to be true to the marque. I have no doubt that further improvements will be made down the road.
Quite agree. The only things I take Leica to task for are the total BS "the IR blocker had to be that way" stance with the M8, and the multiple stages of denial we saw from Leica.
  1. Digital rangefinder is impossible! We're doing a digital back for the R instead. (Then a competitor makes a digital rangefinder...)
  2. Digital rangefinder is possible, but has to be 1.3x crop. There are technical reasons why the IR filter has to suck. We'll say we need a "thin" 0.5mm IR filter because it's a rangefinder, because no one with a caliper or measuring microscope will notice that Nikon and Canon use "thinner" 0.3mm filters. There's no danger anyone will catch us with our hand in the cookie jar.
  3. Here's full frame.
The X1.. is a First Step
The X1 is such a welcome thing to see.
Indeed. More for what I believe is a Sony sensor. All those people who kept accusing Sony of not giving Leica "good" sensors can roll it and...
A compact camera built to Leica standards in Solms with no doubt as to its pedigree. I am so happy to see this camera just because it proves that Leica recognizes the need for an entry level camera and filled a gap previously occupied by Panasonic. I think the X1 will be a success just because of its simplicity and Leica build. And more than a few will appreciate the auto-focus.
If they do autofocus right.

I wonder who's really building the thing, and who designed it. Leica appears to be the "final assembler". ;)
The entry price, while steep compared to other camera makers is cheap when you consider it is a true Leica and all that entails.
I'm not sure what that means. But you're gushing. What happened to "wait and see".
The GF1 may offer more options for less money but it's not a Leica. I hate to sound like a FanBoy here, because I am not, as many here know, but I do understand the history and the mindset of Leica when it comes to actually making a camera rather than rebadging one.
Two words: R3
Love it or hate it, you have to appreciate the effort that went into the X1 on Leica's part.
;)
The constant DSLR vs Range Finder Discussion

Isn't it funny that the DSLR crowd comes in droves when Leica releases a new digital rangefinder? They come more often to argue its shortcomings (compared to a DSLR) than anything else.. and most of those shortcomings are from the eyes of a DSLR user looking at an alien object they don't quite comprehend. Best advice.. ignore them.. no point in arguing, they will eventually go away and enjoy toting their 25 pound camera bags again and firing off 7 frames a second.
Now you're slipped totally into fanboy mode. I've gone out with a Pentax K20D, the body although a bit bulkier than an M8 is comparable in weight, two or three "pancake" lenses slip into pockets (like a Leica), and an in-body stabilization system is like a Leica in hand holding capability (maybe better than Leica).

You've stereotyped SLR users, most unfairly. They cover a wide gamut.
The Proof of Success Will Be in Sales
I believe that both cameras will sell well.
I believe the R9 will sell well, and will get the well deserved credit for saving Leica.

I think one of the few places we'll see an X1 is in that box next to the S1 in the lobby in Solms...
The M9, though out of my price range, is the M Digital we all wanted to begin with. The X1 is the less expensive entry level camera we all wanted (minus interchangeable lenses). I think both of these cameras might end up with a waiting list.
I'm sure they will. I just think one of those lists will fill quickly. ;)
Did I forget to mention the S2?

No, not really. It's not for those of us who inhabit this forum. I wish Leica the best with it. I'm sure Seal will enjoy his, after all he got a great price on it!
;)
What a Crazy Day and now we head into a Crazy Night
With the other important 09/09/09 event, that line should have been...
  • It's been a hard day's night! *
The forums will be buzzing and arguing for some time but I'm just waiting for real photos taken by talented photographers to appear. That's what it's all about anyway, the photographer and the images he produces with these new cameras.
$5 says the first M9 picture posted by a forum member is a cat.
You can argue specs all day but in the end, the images will speak for both the M9 and the X1. Don't suck up the samples posted by DPReview as the best that the M9 can produce.. wait and see what real photographers do with it. (No offense intended to the DPReview staff)
Did you read Phil's disclaimer? He fell in love with the R back during the M8 review, and shoots one for his personal system.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Agreed, I want to see some prints..especially from the X-1. If it has that magic Leica fingerprint I will get one.
If your camera comes with the "magic Leica fingerprint", I'd suggest the following...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551937-REG/Trijicon_LENSPEN_LensPen.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/71154-REG/Photographic_Solutions_PAD44DCS_Pec_Pad_Photo_Wipes_.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/64495-REG/ROR_RO212D_Residual_Oil_Remover.html

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
The entry price, while steep compared to other camera makers is cheap when you consider it is a true Leica and all that entails.
I'm not sure what that means. But you're gushing. What happened to "wait and see".
Just the "hand-made" aspect and the styling.. it does look like a Mini M. You do know that I have always appreciated Leica's optics but not their prices.
The constant DSLR vs Range Finder Discussion

Isn't it funny that the DSLR crowd comes in droves when Leica releases a new digital rangefinder? They come more often to argue its shortcomings (compared to a DSLR) than anything else.. and most of those shortcomings are from the eyes of a DSLR user looking at an alien object they don't quite comprehend. Best advice.. ignore them.. no point in arguing, they will eventually go away and enjoy toting their 25 pound camera bags again and firing off 7 frames a second.
Now you're slipped totally into fanboy mode. I've gone out with a Pentax K20D, the body although a bit bulkier than an M8 is comparable in weight, two or three "pancake" lenses slip into pockets (like a Leica), and an in-body stabilization system is like a Leica in hand holding capability (maybe better than Leica).
Not true.. I own and use a 5D with L glass.. went through almost the entire range of Canon DSLRs before I opted for the use of compact cameras to enjoy photography more.

I appreciate the DSLR for what it is as much as I appreciate the M9 for what it is. Most range finder owners understand the DSLR and know it's strong points. I'm not sure that most DSLR owners understand the draw of the range finder and its strong points.

Cameras are tools, there is no religion involved. Depending on your shooting style, choice of subject and of course, the light.. you choose the right tool for the right job. Sometimes that's a DSLR, sometimes a range finder. I find it great to be at ease using either.
You've stereotyped SLR users, most unfairly. They cover a wide gamut.
If anyone reads what I wrote and thinks that I believe all DSLR users are idiots not capable of understanding or appreciating a RF then my apologies but you know as well as I do how the curious DSLR user pops in here and quite often begins to point out the short comings of the RF compared to his DSLR.. What? No liive view? What? No AF?, No Video? It costs how much?.. and on and on... It's those guys I refer to. Shame on me for not making that clear.
What a Crazy Day and now we head into a Crazy Night
With the other important 09/09/09 event, that line should have been...
  • It's been a hard day's night! *
Yeah, I've got to catch up on the Apple event.. I'll work on that this evening.
$5 says the first M9 picture posted by a forum member is a cat.
I don't doubt that could happen.. my poor cat has often been an unwilling subject for me.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
Just a couple of thoughts...

I'm a bit surprised that you would state that the X1 is a 'true' Leica. I remember how vehemently you defended the pedigree of the DLUX4. You said if Leica said it was a Leica, then it was a Leica.

The 'Made in Germany' label is deceptive when compared to USA standards. When I owned the M6, it was assembled in Portugal. The only things that were done in Solms was the final adjustment of the rangefinder assembly and the placement of the top plate. That was enough for Leica (under German law) to state that it was made in Germany.

I guess I've never really gotten the advantages of a rangefinder system. I used the M6 because the rangefinder was easier to focus in very low light. With the advent of sophisticated autofocus systems, that advantage was lost. The camera was great in low light because of the fast lenses. But now with stabilized lenses and high ISO performance, the really fast glass is more like an exercise in Faberge' Eggs instead of needed products. They produce it because they can... not because it is really necessary.

I'm glad that Leica is continuing on as a company and bringing out new products. I doubt I will buy them though because every Solms produced product had such reliability problems that I found they were too fragile for continual use. Even the slightest bumps knocked my vertical adjustment out of whack and it had to go back for repair. I'd much rather Leica produce lenses and leave the bodies to the Japanese.
 
Eh yeah.. interesting day.

there were a line at Samy's but eventually we got the camera in hand, niiiiice...

Here is Eby the leica reb, he had to suffer a lot of pictures today, his face is not normally that red, but there is a red leica sign right in front of him. shot with the little 24mm 3.5 ? ahh yeah, its wider than it was on my 8. I like faster lenses myself but did not bring any, might stop by tomorrow with a couple for a few more test shots.



I don't know how to link in the fullsize JPG without loading it directly... hmm.

Eby promised the M would ship in about 10 days, saying they are running the factories in Germany double shifts to build up stock.

.

Bo

DOWNLOAD template for handcoding M lenses

http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2009/01/m8-coder-simple-manual-handcoding-of-m-lenses.html

Random d-lux4 images - http://bophoto.zenfolio.com/p978526368
Experimental blog - http://www.bophoto.typepad.com
Homepage - http://www.bophoto.com/panos
 
Just a couple of thoughts...

I'm a bit surprised that you would state that the X1 is a 'true' Leica. I remember how vehemently you defended the pedigree of the DLUX4. You said if Leica said it was a Leica, then it was a Leica.
My comments strictly refer to the "made in Solms" statement. I still defend the D-Lux 4 as being a Leica. If Leica says it's a Leica there are certain standards it must meet and to me the D-Lux 4 is one of the best compact cameras ever made.. worthy of the Leica name and badge and the lens it contains.

You will remember there was a forum member here who constantly reminded people that their D-Lux 4 was not a "real" Leica.. he has since been banished I believe. I am not waffling on this point... maybe I should have prefaced my statement with this... For those who believe only true Leicas are made in Solms the X1 should make them happy.
The 'Made in Germany' label is deceptive when compared to USA standards. When I owned the M6, it was assembled in Portugal. The only things that were done in Solms was the final adjustment of the rangefinder assembly and the placement of the top plate. That was enough for Leica (under German law) to state that it was made in Germany.
I understand the gray areas of the made in Germany tag. Does anyone believe that Leica developed the AF, the sensor, the circuit boards and associated electronics? No, this was a collaborative effort... the "Made in Germany" engraving is there for a comfort level more than anything else. I don't care if Leica has a plant on the south side of Chicago.. it's really about the final product, not where it is made.

Once again my ability to communicate what I was thinking and what I wrote are a bit off.
I guess I've never really gotten the advantages of a rangefinder system. I used the M6 because the rangefinder was easier to focus in very low light. With the advent of sophisticated autofocus systems, that advantage was lost. The camera was great in low light because of the fast lenses. But now with stabilized lenses and high ISO performance, the really fast glass is more like an exercise in Faberge' Eggs instead of needed products. They produce it because they can... not because it is really necessary.
They produce it because there are people like me who want it. Not for any kind of neck bling or status. I hate heavy equipment.. I love small compact cameras and Leica glass is still some of the best in the world. I enjoy "minimal cameras" where I, as the photographer, must take responsibility on a number of levels instead of simply pointing the camera and pressing the shutter release.
I'm glad that Leica is continuing on as a company and bringing out new products. I doubt I will buy them though because every Solms produced product had such reliability problems that I found they were too fragile for continual use. Even the slightest bumps knocked my vertical adjustment out of whack and it had to go back for repair. I'd much rather Leica produce lenses and leave the bodies to the Japanese.
Understood and I can appreciate your views.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
Every purchase I have ever made has been based on what images a camera is > capable of producing. That's what I am really waiting to see.. the photographs.
Jim, this is not an empty complement but have you ever found a camera that did not make good and interesting images in your hands? :-)
--
Michael
 
Every purchase I have ever made has been based on what images a camera is > capable of producing. That's what I am really waiting to see.. the photographs.
Jim, this is not an empty complement but have you ever found a camera that did not make good and interesting images in your hands? :-)
Thanks, Michael.. the problem is you guys only see my best shots.. you've never seen the thousands of terrible shots I have taken.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
There was a book awhile back of photographs by all the greats - Ansel, Eisie, Cartier-Bresson, on and on and on - of the photos they took of their cats and dogs. I'll bet most of them were first photos with new gear or a new film.
$5 says the first M9 picture posted by a forum member is a cat.
--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Being a former owner of the Digilux2, D-Lux 3 and C-Lux1, I'm looking at the X1 now. What I wonder is if the manual focus will be mechanical or fly-by-wire focus. I also wonder how good the AF will be. I'm not familiar with the R bodies, so wonder if Leica has the know-how for fast accurate AF. Although the X1 is quite limited having only a 35mm FL, there is just something about a Leica that is pulling me in. I have Leica-M lenses as well as m-mount Zeiss and Voigtländer lenses on my E-P1, and there is definitely something special about the way those lens reproduce the scenes. Any input on the focusing system would be much appreciated. Cheers. -Norm
What a Crazy Day!

I've read with much amusement and interest the posts praising and knocking Leica's new offerings. I've spent free time throughout the day reading posts here and on other forums regarding today's unveiling of the M9 and X1.

The Signal to Noise Ratio is Out of this World

People are going nuts over both of these cameras without having touched them at all. They've yet to use them or process a file yet they seem to either love them or hate them. I'm going to wait and see what some of the talented photographers here and in other forums do with the M9. I'll have to wait a bit longer to see what the X1 user does with it.

Leica Should Be Applauded for the M9

For a company that is known to move at a snail's pace and resist change, Leica acted as swiftly as they could to correct the deficiencies of the M8. Round of applause for them. In addition, they stayed true to their belief in the M line and appear to have not compromised their own standards.. more applause, please. Whether you love or hate Leica you have to appreciate their determination to be true to the marque. I have no doubt that further improvements will be made down the road.

The X1.. is a First Step

The X1 is such a welcome thing to see. A compact camera built to Leica standards in Solms with no doubt as to its pedigree. I am so happy to see this camera just because it proves that Leica recognizes the need for an entry level camera and filled a gap previously occupied by Panasonic. I think the X1 will be a success just because of its simplicity and Leica build. And more than a few will appreciate the auto-focus. The entry price, while steep compared to other camera makers is cheap when you consider it is a true Leica and all that entails.

The GF1 may offer more options for less money but it's not a Leica. I hate to sound like a FanBoy here, because I am not, as many here know, but I do understand the history and the mindset of Leica when it comes to actually making a camera rather than rebadging one. Love it or hate it, you have to appreciate the effort that went into the X1 on Leica's part.

The constant DSLR vs Range Finder Discussion

Isn't it funny that the DSLR crowd comes in droves when Leica releases a new digital rangefinder? They come more often to argue its shortcomings (compared to a DSLR) than anything else.. and most of those shortcomings are from the eyes of a DSLR user looking at an alien object they don't quite comprehend. Best advice.. ignore them.. no point in arguing, they will eventually go away and enjoy toting their 25 pound camera bags again and firing off 7 frames a second.

The Proof of Success Will Be in Sales

I believe that both cameras will sell well. The M9, though out of my price range, is the M Digital we all wanted to begin with. The X1 is the less expensive entry level camera we all wanted (minus interchangeable lenses). I think both of these cameras might end up with a waiting list.

Did I forget to mention the S2?

No, not really. It's not for those of us who inhabit this forum. I wish Leica the best with it. I'm sure Seal will enjoy his, after all he got a great price on it!

What a Crazy Day and now we head into a Crazy Night

The forums will be buzzing and arguing for some time but I'm just waiting for real photos taken by talented photographers to appear. That's what it's all about anyway, the photographer and the images he produces with these new cameras.

You can argue specs all day but in the end, the images will speak for both the M9 and the X1. Don't suck up the samples posted by DPReview as the best that the M9 can produce.. wait and see what real photographers do with it. (No offense intended to the DPReview staff)

Thanks, Leica for one of the most interesting days in a long time.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
Fly-by-wire - it is a Leica lens, but it extends when the camera is turned on, this keep the camera more compact when traveling..

This is probably the most manual digital P&S ever, but it still have fly-by-wire on all controls.

.

Bo

DOWNLOAD template for handcoding M lenses

http://bophoto.typepad.com/bophoto/2009/01/m8-coder-simple-manual-handcoding-of-m-lenses.html

Random d-lux4 images - http://bophoto.zenfolio.com/p978526368
Experimental blog - http://www.bophoto.typepad.com
Homepage - http://www.bophoto.com/panos
 

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