Where are you Fuji Pro S7 ?

Well some things are shaking out now...

1. Digitl photography has moved down two stops for what you can do with available light.

2. Full field cameras allow for remarkable flexibility in terms of crop area, outright resolution and beautiful OOF backgrounds.
3. The two leading candidates now are Canon 5DII and the Nikon D700.

4. Sony stepped up to the FF high MP bar with the 850 and therefore we can expect that an entry from Nikon such as a D700X cannot be far behind.

5. The does she or doesn't she shoot video discussion/argument is still rageing and while I personally don't think I need it, things may change in the next 12 months forcing me, and a lot of others, into that regime.

Fuji may or may not try to play in this market. This is a complete unknown.

It really doesn't matter though because the trees are shaking right now and it would be foolish to try to decide which fruit to pick up.

Let the products come out, let the dust settle and then make a decision.

It is all good for us and while we wait, it is also entertaining to watch.

intruder61 said:

the new FujiS7 Pro is now called the D700.
there will be no more fuji pro's. time to move on.

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I would be very happy if it were as you say, unfortunately the d700 doesn't come close to Fuji's capability to render tones and colours as delicate as the Fuji S5 can do.

I have a bunch of d700 RAW files here, I wouldn't change the S5 against a d700 even for free. For the cases when I want FF and more sharpness I use an old Canon 5d with my Zeiss ZF lenses, it is still sharper than the d700, of course it's tones while nice with the Zeiss glass are not as good as the Fuji, but the Nikon isn't closer either. Only thing that goes for it is it's modern body.

--
regards,
Bernie

Walter S Matthews said:

4. Sony stepped up to the FF high MP bar with the 850 and therefore we can expect that an entry from Nikon such as a D700X cannot be far behind.

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The A850 and the so-called D700x would appeal to different spectrums of the FF market - Sony is a more price pointed entry-level model into the FF market while the D700x is rumoured to be positioned at the higher end. Different beasts.

I don't think we'll see a new Fuji DSLR anytime soon if ever. If Fuji has something in the pipeline they'd better get it to market soon. I think many Fuji owners are jumping ship. You can see it at this site which currently goes into the second day of messages after just seven messages.

I've also noticed the prices of low mileage used S5s has recently fallen to the $750 to $850 level. Could this indicate that potential owners are concerned about future Fuji support for the S5? I am and I'm not a Fuji owner... just thinking about getting on board a sinking DSLR ship. So sad. The S5 is a very good camera. The S6 would have been even better.

Best wishes,
Richard
--
Equipment: 1 camera, 1 lens, 38 years
http://www.pbase.com/rgthompson

There were way better photographers back in the day when there was just Manual on our cameras

Anyone who does a lesson on how the ASA, aperture and shutter work will make a fortune - or no one will be able to understand.

--
http://www.luminous-views.com

Tones and colours are subjective .

is why Fuji does not make its own DSLR camera?

The Fujinon lenses are among the best in the world. They already make lenses for Hasselblad, for several years, and the large format Fujinon lenses has been rated tops for decades, not to mention their television lenses.

They make the sensors, they make the lenses, all they're missing is the body, but they used to make the Fujica cameras, and they make medium format cameras (I used them for several years and can testify to their quality). Is it really that difficult to make a camera body?

Is relying on a competing manufacturer a viable long term solution, even if it is Japan that we're talking about?

C'mon Fuji! Show some guts! Risk a little! it won't hurt, too much!

billphoto said:

Tones and colours are subjective .

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Only to a certain degree. No other camera I have used can render so subtle shades and variations of tonality as the Fuji. It specially shows in portraits, but also in other pics.

I have made lots of portraits with my Canon 5d also, but the rendition of tones is poor compared with the Fuji - S3 and S5. Skin tone is also much harder to match with anything else but a Fuji.

--
regards,
Bernie

sung nee said:

is why Fuji does not make its own DSLR camera?

The Fujinon lenses are among the best in the world. They already make lenses for Hasselblad, for several years, and the large format Fujinon lenses has been rated tops for decades, not to mention their television lenses.

They make the sensors, they make the lenses,

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They do not make any lenses for 35mm format, or for the level of autofocus performance that the 35mm market expects. Virtually all MF lenses are "unit focusing", there are no floating element, rear focus, or internal focus lenses. And they're slow. MF makers make 85mm f2.8 lenses, the 35mm market expects f1.4 or f1.2. The long lenses are stuffed full of ED glass elements (the new Nikon 70-200mm has seven) and aspherical elements.

sung nee said:

all they're missing is the body, but they used to make the Fujica cameras,

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That doesn't count, any more. In 2009, pro bodies as well as the bodies a level below the pro line have:

• shutter that delivers 1/8000 sec max speed and 1/250 sec x-sync.
• mirrors that can keep up with 8-12 frames/sec, with 40mS "blackout".
• fast autofocus system with anywhere from 25-50 sensors.
• preflash based multiple zone TTL flash metering.

What Fuji makes for Blad is state-of-the-art by medium format standards. It's also reminiscent of a Nikon or Canon body from about 20 years ago. Literally.

sung nee said:

and they make medium format cameras (I used them for several years and can testify to their quality). Is it really that difficult to make a camera body?

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Yes, it is. Oly reentered after a 15 year absence, and even though they built their budgets and marketing plans around the goal of 50,000 units/year, their first DSLR, the E-1, required a lot of parts (shutter, mirror assembly) to be purchased from Sanyo, AF lens motors (and entire lenses) from Tamron. And the end result was blasted as being years behind the time.

sung nee said:

Is relying on a competing manufacturer a viable long term solution, even if it is Japan that we're talking about?

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No, it's not. Becoming a chip supplier is, but Fuji doesn't have the product breadth to do that.

sung nee said:

C'mon Fuji! Show some guts!

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They are.

sung nee said:

Risk a little! it won't hurt, too much!

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Only the loss of the company...

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

If they thought that they could sell enough cameras they would. Can they sell enough DSLR's to re-coup R&D cost ? And do they want to take that gamble with stockholders money

Umm I'd like to see an improved APS-c chip on a compact that either comes with a fast prime or a zoom.

After that why not make another APS-c mirror-less body? I am sure at a fraction the cost of a M9 there will be interest.

I think Fuji can make good bodies (at a certain level) but just not enough lens support.

Taking an "adapt all" type mount (not Tamron!), especially all manual focus lenses could help them to fill some niche market. The actual problem may be Nikon is no longer willing to sell any camera bodies to Fuji.

I've used the S5 and loved the colors. I wish they could make a compact snap shot camera and keep the line of sensors going.

David, I have been a professional for over 30years & yes I 100% agree with you, we were far better photographers in the " old days" as we had to think before we took every photograph and make use of our grey matter. To day a guy can go out & buy a D300 & take a very professional photograph ( of a still life ) which if he was using the correct focal length lens, could match mine with absolutely no experience.
Regards,
Ray.

Ray Roberts said:

David, I have been a professional for over 30years & yes I 100% agree with you, we were far better photographers in the " old days" as we had to think before we took every photograph and make use of our grey matter. To day a guy can go out & buy a D300 & take a very professional photograph ( of a still life ) which if he was using the correct focal length lens, could match mine with absolutely no experience.

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Ray, it's funny that you decided to use the "still life" as an example. I can think of no other field of photography that proves you more wrong.

I spend hours (and on occasion, days) setting up a decent still life, lighting it, and positioning a camera. The actual taking of the picture is anticlimactic, and it doesn't matter one bit whether the camera is highly automated or not. By the time it's button pressing time, all the "gray matter" has turned to that "dark matter" stuff that people keep talking about...

Now, still life photography aside, where did we lose our way, Ray? Was it...

• 10 years ago, with digital?
• 20 years ago, with autofocus?
• 25 with matrix metering?
• 40 with automatic exposure?
• 50 with built in exposure metering?
• 80 with erecting prisms?
• 100 with dry plates and film?

Exactly where did a photographer's lack of discipline stop becoming their own dang fault, and start being blamed on the equipment?

p.s. if your post was actually supposed to be sarcastic or humorous, my apologies.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

mmmmmmmm said:

Golly, I have been a photographer for almost 40 years. How did we ever do without 8 fps or even 3 fps.

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Golly, David, I don't know.

Could it be, perhaps, that even 40 years ago, photographers had all sorts of different needs? Sports, landscape, wedding, journalist, etc. Consider that 40 years ago...

• Nikon had been doing motor drives for decades (they even had one for the S rangefinder that was twice the size of the camera).
• There were a dozen different companies making interchangeable lens rangefinder bodies and lenses, because those were the first choice for some kinds of photography.
• There were a dozen healthy medium format manufacturers. Hasselblad and Rollei were still family owned, Mamiya was doing well.
• There were a lot of 4x5 and 8x10 large format camera manufacturers.
• There were dozens of companies producing darkroom chemicals.

mmmmmmmm said:

i used a MF camera

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Is that "manual focus" or "medium format"?

mmmmmmmm said:

that had to be manually advanced. I did own a MF camera with motor drive - I believe it was 1.5 fps. Anyway, too much is put of how fast a camera can shoot.

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You can put that down to companies like Nikon, Canon, and even Leica. 50 years ago, Niikon had the F36 motor, that could push an F body up to 4 frames/second. It wasn't unusual for a sports shooter to use that with a 250 shot bulk film pack.

Remember when Nikon and Canon were locked in a race to see who could be fires to the Olympics with something new, like a 10 fps motor drive? Do you know why so many companies, 30 years ago, had 3.6 frame/second drives? That's a "benchmark", a 36 shot roll of film in 10 seconds flat.

mmmmmmmm said:

i think we were much more focused on composition, etc. in those days. personally I think we were better photogaphers in the film days.

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I think it all fell apart with that "roll film" stuff. As soon as we got away from the discipline of loading sheet film one shot at a time, we started to get soft. You just can't focus on composition unless you're looking at the image upside down on a ground glass.

Sarcasm aside, I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

The only person responsible for a photographer's lack of discipline is that photographer. Blaming an equipment manufacture for making any part of the process "too easy" is just making excuses for the photographer's own faults. A real artist doesn't need equipment "forcing" them to slow down.

Golly...

Now, your particular thoughts on being happy with a 1fps camera aside...

Fuji's problem is that they didn't sell enough DSLRs.

Lack of sales led to progressively lower R&D budgets, and cameras with all sorts of interesting flaws. So, how to get more sales? It's not by making a 1fps camera that will only sell to the occasional landscape shooter or Ray Roberts's "still life" photographer. You've got to satisfy a pro who might need 1fps for a wedding Saturday, and 5-10 fps for a football game Wednesday. Good manual controls for people who work that way, good automation for people who work that way. You can't be all things to all people, but you've got to be "enough things to enough people" to survive in this game.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

It's the bi-monthly "When's the next Fuji?" email...

Oh well, optimism dies hard...

--
Matt Fahrner
http://boinkphoto.com