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G11 circled by MFT and APS-C compacts, flaming arrows, G11 out gunned...

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Zigsta31 said:
ljfinger said:
I might as well take my SLRs which will crush them and not really be any larger - just better and more powerful.
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Which of your SLR's aren't really larger?
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All of them. Remember, you have to include the accessories (lenses, viewfinder, etc.). If I take the body out of my bag, it won't get much smaller.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
Chris Strobel said:
You know there comes a time when you just have to forget about the gear and get on with photography.These forums and the camera companies coming out with something new every quarter it seems can drive you mad.G10's sensor is tiny, sure, but really how big does every one need to print these days?My G10 at base ISO gives me 8x10's every bit as good as any 35mm film camera I've ever owned., and when I stitch several G10 images together like these shells I did with six images, it can give me quality that rivals my drum scanned 4x5 film work at 20x24.
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It has zero, absolutely nothing to do with printable image size and everything to do with control over DOF. This is not about megapixels.

In addition, this is not about the next new thing, this is about a new evolving paradigm in digital camera design that Canon and Nikon are essentially ignoring.

I have about 20 cameras and no desire to post on this forum. The fact that I am writing anything at all is indicative of what I consider to be a near historic development in digital camera evolution.

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holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
Tom Hoots said:
Especially when you start buying lenses.

Apples and oranges. Either you want something compact, or something not-so-compact, which eventually grows into a bagful of lenses.

Tom Hoots
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For the GF1 like almost every camera I have ever owned, I require exactly 1 lens.

The X1 appears to be a fixed built in lens? At 35mm equivalent it will be perfect.

My 1Ds mark II has exactly 1 lens. My 5D mark II has exactly 1 zoom!!! lens.

Each camera was chosen for a specific use, and each camera is near perfect in doing exactly what I want it to do.

I don't need a bag of lenses, flashes, filters, gimmicks, do-daddys, whatchamacallits, etc.

Like I said, I need 3 cameras, a true compact, a semi-compact with a larger sensor and a FF pro dSLR.

So yes, there is an apple, there is an orange, and there is a filet mignon.

But definitely not a bag full of crud.

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holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
hiplnsdrftr said:
I was never so happy as when I was shooting with my Contax T3 and that to me, is the pinnacle of a photographic tool, for me that is. No bells, no whistles, no frills, but a razor sharp lens, in a small body, built like a tank.

The Contax T3 inspired me to put every other camera I own onto a shelf, including my medium format film cameras. And I say, nobody, nobody has a clue if I used the T3 or a Leica M6 to shoot those negs. Nobody.

But ultimately, there is no one perfect camera. Like I said, I imagine my current perfect line-up might be something like 1. the S90 or G9 2. GF1 3. 1Ds mark II
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When I am travelling extra light, I leave the big DSLR's at home (30D and 5DII) and use a compact zoom like the G7 or G10, and a fixed prime compact like the Sigma DP1/2 or a film compact like the Contax T3 or Fuji Natura Black.

I used a S45 with 35mm eq. zoom lens for a couple of years, and didn't use the zoom very much. Same with my S70, same with my G10. But the G7's extra zoom range is actually quite useful to have in my pocket, I've found. And since getting the 5DII + 24-105L, I really appreciate the ability to zoom from wide to close.

A Leica X1 with fixed 35mm eq lens and APS-C or H sensor would be a dream, but it wouldn't be my primary compact any more than my Sigma DP2. For me, the option of some zoom is like having bandaids, aspirin or condoms. You might not need them all the time, but you're sure glad when you do! This is why the S90 appeals to me so much.
--
Archiver - Recording the sights and sounds of life
http://www.flickr.com/photos/archiver/
 
should have sold the g9 years ago when it was worth something ... give you $80.00 for it
 
jamesfrmphilly said:
but you also may be over reacting.
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Well, all I know is that the PRO1, C8080, R1, S70, G6, DSC-V3 were dropped (or significantly down-graded) by all manufacturers despite being successful high quality cameras more or less around the same time.

What followed was several years of a dirge of significantly worthwhile compact digital cameras.

All that Panasonic and Leica are doing is releasing the cameras that should have been released several years ago.

Canon, Nikon and Sony could have done it, but they obviously simultaneously decided that larger sensor high quality compacts were unnecessary? And since then have reluctantly offered up the least they could get away with.

I guess I could be over reacting. But when I see a news flash that Leica is possibly releasing a compact with an APS-C size sensor, I can only just barely hold the tears back in my eyes.

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holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
We are more or less on the same page. Glad I'm not completely alone out on a limb on this.

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holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
" G11 out gunned..."

I appreciate your view on this...but, other than save my $$$, what should I do with only $500 to spend on a DC? I really don't understand how these cameras can, in any way, be compared. The logic eludes me. I have noticed very often (not always) when you spend more money on something it is superior to a less expensive alternative. Have you ever noticed that or is the first time you have run across this reality??
 
dadof4 said:
" G11 out gunned..."

I appreciate your view on this...but, other than save my $$$, what should I do with only $500 to spend on a DC? I really don't understand how these cameras can, in any way, be compared. The logic eludes me. I have noticed very often (not always) when you spend more money on something it is superior to a less expensive alternative. Have you ever noticed that or is the first time you have run across this reality??
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With only $500 then buy the best camera you can. Maybe it's a used G9. Maybe its a G11. I would buy the S90. (I would also just stick with my S70 if I had to.)

What my post is about is the fact that there is a significant development occurring in the categories and types of digital cameras available now and in the near future.

Its not about elitism or wealth. Its about having the option to use what I consider to be fully realized cameras that truly utilize existing current technology. What I do not like is the feeling that I am being duped into purchasing a "new" camera that was essentially available 5 years ago.

I do not have a pile of money to burn up on the next new camera each and every year. The cost of living in NYC eats up any and most of my income. I do not go to movies. I do not eat breakfast. I bought one TV in my entire adult life and it was just last year!

What I do spend money on is the gear necessary to carry on my personal photographic projects and the bare necessities required to be a serious professional photographer.

When I take the time out to write about this stuff, it is because I am passionate about this type of camera. I am in a hotel room in Rio De Janeiro on an assignment. I flew for about 20 hours yesterday. Spent all day hiring location coordinators, drivers and security guards, did not eat lunch. Copacabana beach is 50 feet from my front door and it is killing me that I have not stepped foot on it. I clicked on the internet tonight and out of the clear blue sky I see this crazy Leica X1 thing, and man, I had to read it 3 times before I even believed my eyes. I mean, the GF1 was great, but then to see this X1? So my point is that I have better things to do (like sleep) than go on and on about these cameras and what I consider to be my preferred camera maker (Canon) kinda not being on the forefront of this revolution.

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holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
dadof4 said:
" G11 out gunned..."

I really don't understand how these cameras can, in any way, be compared.
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I guess one reason I compare them is that in my mind, they are of similar size? (the GF1 with a prime that is)

And the G11 is sort of Canon's high end prosumer compact and the GF1 and X1 I guess are kinda in that same position?

The S90 was put out to compete with the LX3 so what exactly is the G11's competition? Something above the LX3 to be certain. I guess that kind of is the GF1?

But personally for me, its mostly about the relative sizes and general price points. That's it (in my mind).

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holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
Ok... The objective of your original post was Canon does not offer the options you would like them to offer. Their product line has some gaps. It was not a comparison of the cameras. I missed that and agree with you on that point.
 
I am really interested in the X1 and the GF1 with that pancake 20mm, but I think it is no coincidence that the 2 giants Canon and Nikon are slow with the larger sensor cameras (not that I can afford the X1)

They will come, but it will be brand new model line rather than a new G-series.

I for one would LOVE to buy a GF1 sized Canon compact with say most of the Rebel XSi guts stuffed inside, and a fast normal prime lens.

The nice thing about it is that it probably wouldn't be overpriced either!

--
http://www.madmaxmedia.com
 
madmaxmedia said:
I am really interested in the X1 and the GF1 with that pancake 20mm, but I think it is no coincidence that the 2 giants Canon and Nikon are slow with the larger sensor cameras (not that I can afford the X1)

They will come, but it will be brand new model line rather than a new G-series.

I for one would LOVE to buy a GF1 sized Canon compact with say most of the Rebel XSi guts stuffed inside, and a fast normal prime lens.

The nice thing about it is that it probably wouldn't be overpriced either!

--
http://www.madmaxmedia.com
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Exactly the reason I had hoped for a Canon. More affordable. Dependable quality. Well distributed and more likely more readily available.

Not to mention my (absurdly) intense brand loyalty in almost every product I use or purchase.
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holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
hiplnsdrftr said:
But the G11? Is it a joke? Are Canon's corporate spies asleep at the wheel? Do they really expect me to shoot with that size of a camera with such a small sensor? I guess they do.
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The cat is getting too fat.

This is happening over and over again. In the field of digital cinema (HD and beyond) the big names are asleep at the wheel, allowing a creative, nimble startup such as RED to overtake them and produce the most advanced digital cinema cameras.

I guess it's the same thing with the high-end compacts.
hiplnsdrftr said:
I will be purchasing a GF1 or an X1 and it will be the first non-Canon digital camera I have ever shot. Thats right... ever shot. I have never taken a single photo with a non-Canon digital camera. Never pushed a button that did nt say Canon.
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Also keep an eye on the rumored Samsung NX. It's very similar to the Leica thing.

--
Florin Andrei
http://florin.myip.org/
 
hiplnsdrftr said:
My 1Ds mark II has exactly 1 lens. My 5D mark II has exactly 1 zoom!!! lens.

I don't need a bag of lenses, flashes, filters, gimmicks, do-daddys, whatchamacallits, etc.
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....then you are in a complete minority with your needs. There are a lot of people who feel that the G11 is an ideal camera for them. So for you to indicate that Canon has messed up is very presumptious on your behalf. Canon might have messed up for your requirements...... but they didn't mess up for a other peoples requirements which seem to be in more of a majority on this forum.

There are a lot of people like myself who want full controls, who don't make large prints, who like the 28mm wide and appreciate a bit of reach, and who like good macro, who now can shoot at unusual angles easily, and all in a camera that can fit in a pocket. Believe me, I have heard of a lot more people wanting those requirements met, than from people like yourself who want a fix focal lens on a large sensor.

And to cap it all, you seem to contradict yourself somewhat. You stated that 35mm fixed on a larger sensor would do you nicely, but yet you bought a G10 when there was already such a camera out there (DP1) that nearly reached that requirement.

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Regards,
Karl B.
 
There are choices..you made yours..why whine?
 
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