Reading mode: Light Dark

G11 circled by MFT and APS-C compacts, flaming arrows, G11 out gunned...

Go to last post
H

hiplnsdrftr

Leading Member
Messages
616
Reaction score
7
Location
nyc, NY, US
Sorry to say this, because I really "love" my Canon cameras, and it's painful to say this, but wow, could Canon have dropped the ball any harder, or louder?

Panasonic GF1 (mft) and Leica X1 (apsC) both outed on the same day... http://43rumors.com/

Both cameras with a prime lens in the same size range as the G11, granted it has a zoom, and yes, I know the G11 has the zoom, but as I almost never use the zoom, it does not factor as much of an advantage to me.

In Canon's defense I will say, the S90 is truly more compact, and the small size justifies the small sensor. And I might buy a S90 to have a truly compact modern camera.

And, I am so content with my 1Ds mark II and 5D mark II I don't even care what FF cameras Nikon or Sony put out. They can have my 1Ds mark II when they pry it from my cold dead hands as far as I'm concerned.

But the G11? Is it a joke? Are Canon's corporate spies asleep at the wheel? Do they really expect me to shoot with that size of a camera with such a small sensor? I guess they do.

I will be purchasing a GF1 or an X1 and it will be the first non-Canon digital camera I have ever shot. Thats right... ever shot. I have never taken a single photo with a non-Canon digital camera. Never pushed a button that did nt say Canon.

But man, Canon has lost me today, at least in the semi-compact category.

Other than the fact it will not say Canon, my dreams are coming true...



--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
i'd get rid of all all your canon cameras...just to make a statement.
hiplnsdrftr said:
Sorry to say this, because I really "love" my Canon cameras, and it's painful to say this, but wow, could Canon have dropped the ball any harder, or louder?

Panasonic GF1 (mft) and Leica X1 (apsC) both outed on the same day... http://43rumors.com/

Both cameras with a prime lens in the same size range as the G11, granted it has a zoom, and yes, I know the G11 has the zoom, but as I almost never use the zoom, it does not factor as much of an advantage to me.

In Canon's defense I will say, the S90 is truly more compact, and the small size justifies the small sensor. And I might buy a S90 to have a truly compact modern camera.

And, I am so content with my 1Ds mark II and 5D mark II I don't even care what FF cameras Nikon or Sony put out. They can have my 1Ds mark II when they pry it from my cold dead hands as far as I'm concerned.

But the G11? Is it a joke? Are Canon's corporate spies asleep at the wheel? Do they really expect me to shoot with that size of a camera with such a small sensor? I guess they do.

I will be purchasing a GF1 or an X1 and it will be the first non-Canon digital camera I have ever shot. Thats right... ever shot. I have never taken a single photo with a non-Canon digital camera. Never pushed a button that did nt say Canon.

But man, Canon has lost me today, at least in the semi-compact category.

Other than the fact it will not say Canon, my dreams are coming true...



--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
Click to expand...
--

 
I don't mind the sensor size that much (I understand that you need some compromises to have a pocketable camera), but I do really mind the lens quality. Too bad Canon can't make a P&S lens that has the same optic quality as their mid ranged DSLR lenses. I would pay 100+ bucks more for such a camera.

The Leica with the APS-C sensor.. I don't know, 35 mm is not wide enough for landscapes and not long enough for portraits, and it's probably to be very expensive anyway. If you can't put it in a pocket, what's the point in having it?
 
borisboomboom said:
i'd get rid of all all your canon cameras...just to make a statement.
Click to expand...
I will be selling G10, maybe sell G9 depends on video of GF1 or X1, might sell two S70s and get S90?

Like I said, the 1Ds mark II will be in my cold dead hands (along with my Colt 1911 and my FLH, very full hands!)
--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
Radu P said:
If you can't put it in a pocket, what's the point in having it?
Click to expand...
The way I see it, categories of cameras...

1. consumer- 99% of all cameras, can include tiny compacts, entry level dSLRs, whatever, the bulk of cameras made for uninformed consumers, impulse purchases, disposable digitals, etc.

2. true pro feature compacts, very small, RAW, like S90 and Lx3 (fits in a pocket)

3. semi-compact elite pro feature cameras- EP1?, GH1, G11?, GH1 (large pocket, small belt pouch)

4. pro full sized dSLR, Canon 1D cameras, and maybe some from Nikon, but I have no idea what cameras they make... I'm sure they make something in this category? (full size, must use neck strap, big enough and tough enough to kill a wild pig or to deflect a small bullet)

--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
Thomas Niemann said:
Your standards are higher than mine. Nothing wrong with that. Here are two images, printed 14x21, hanging on my wall. (G10)
Click to expand...
I own a G10, but what I desire is a small amount of control over DOF. I used my G10 in Bangkok and Manila earlier in the year and using 80 ISO the results were beautiful, almost bringing tears to my eyes, but pretty much infinite DOF. And its by no means a small camera. And I almost never use the zoom.

So for my style of shooting, the GF1 or possible X1 are almost exactly what I desire. A fixed 35mm equivalent lens is perfect.

I am not an elitist. I have shot high end fashion catalogs with the Canon S70, I lied and told the client I used 35mm film, they had no idea!!!

Also, I'm not a gear freak, I don' like using a lot of different cameras. I want 1 true compact, 1 medium sized camera and 2 FF dSLRs for work. That's it.

(I have a dozen film cameras that sit around like antiques collecting dust, I can't bare to part with.)

--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
I disagree that the entry level DSLRs are "consumer cameras". I don't think most of the people not interested in photography would spend 500+ on a DSLR, due to the price, size, and the fact that it intimidates many (omg, so many buttons).

I have two entry level DSLRs (a 300D and a 450D), an a570 IS which I use when I go places where I will take some pictures, but for some reason I don't want to bring my DSLR (like climbing a mountain, going on the beach, stuff like that).

Right now I am looking for a really compact camera that can stay in my pocket all the time, just in case I get the photo (or video) opportunity of my life :D I know I can't expect much quality from it, and I wish I had manual controls and RAW mode and stuff, but the most important criteria for me is very small size/weight, and HD video, so I am probably going to buy the SD980, unless if there are some really nasty IQ issues. I was really looking forward for the S90, but the fact that it has no HD video and the lens quality seems not to be too good made me reconsider spending 400+ bucks.

The point is that there are all kind of compromises involved, and the sensor size is not always the most important consideration, especially for side cameras.
 
With the G10/11 they have produced a camera with a sharp lens that zooms from 28-140mm and fits in my wife's purse! The large depth of field is both a plus and a minus. But it's a compromise one must make for the flexible focal length range in a small package.

To say that Canon dropped the ball just doesn't resonate with me. I do agree that different photographers have different requirements. And also understand how other cameras and lenses fit the bill for you better than the G11.

But to say they dropped the ball is a bit of a stretch.
hiplnsdrftr said:
So for my style of shooting, the GF1 or possible X1 are almost exactly what I desire. A fixed 35mm equivalent lens is perfect.
Click to expand...
 
hiplnsdrftr said:
Both cameras with a prime lens in the same size range as the G11, granted it has a zoom, and yes, I know the G11 has the zoom, ...
Click to expand...
Prime versus zoom, and same size range ? The cameras you mention even with a small prime are much larger when off than the G11 due to the fact that the G11's lens retracts, and with a comparable zoom lens, they are more like the size of the FZ30 or Pro 1.

If I'm going to buy a camera that doesn't fit in my pocket it either needs to be a superzoom so I have some flexibility, or it needs to be an SLR so I have some performance. These "little" non-compact non-SLR cameras with prime lenses and high cost have about as much appeal to me as an asphalt sandwich.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
hiplnsdrftr said:
Radu P said:
If you can't put it in a pocket, what's the point in having it?
Click to expand...
The way I see it, categories of cameras...

1. consumer- 99% of all cameras, can include tiny compacts, entry level dSLRs, whatever, the bulk of cameras made for uninformed consumers, impulse purchases, disposable digitals, etc.

2. true pro feature compacts, very small, RAW, like S90 and Lx3 (fits in a pocket)

3. semi-compact elite pro feature cameras- EP1?, GH1, G11?, GH1 (large pocket, small belt pouch)
Click to expand...
I'd delete that one as not a practical size. Neither big enough for good handling and performance nor small enough to fit in a pocket. Might as well have a small dSLR like a Rebel or E620.

I'd replace it with mid-size SLRs like the xxD series, 5D and 7D. Small enough to wear on a waist pack all day every day but with just as much power as the ones mentioned below without the useless-for-some built-in non-removable grip.
hiplnsdrftr said:
4. pro full sized dSLR, Canon 1D cameras, and maybe some from Nikon, but I have no idea what cameras they make... I'm sure they make something in this category? (full size, must use neck strap, big enough and tough enough to kill a wild pig or to deflect a small bullet)
Click to expand...
And if you don't need the grip, you get to carry a camera too big for a comfortable waist pack everywhere you go. Not sure - I might prefer the small bullet.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
morepix said:
So you just discovered sensor sizes -- congratulations! And bye-bye.
Click to expand...
uh, I discovered sensor sizes in 1982 when my mother gave me a Kodak disc camera and I was like, jeez, these pictures don't look so hot, so I confiscated my grandfathers Nikon F and and even though I was about 14 years old I knew the photos looked 1000 times better.

When I purchased my Canon S70 I knew it was an amazing invention but I also knew that it had infinite DOF and since then I have desired a larger sensor compact camera. (Well, Canon started to make them and promptly 86'd the PRO1.)

So, now, 2009, it is possible that before the end of the year, I might own a compact camera with a MFT or an APS-C size sensor. And therefore, I might be able to squeeze out a little control over DOF.

I had hoped and dreamed that Canon would make that camera, but alas, it will not be the case.

As someone that was fully aware of "sensor" size and it's relation to DOF and image quality when I was 14 years old, 27 years ago, I am extremely excited to witness this technological revolution within my own lifetime.

And that is exactly what it is.

--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
If you don't like what the G11 offers, then don't buy it. If you want a camera with a much larger sensor, and don't mind the larger cameras/lenses that this entails, and you don't mind investing in yet another camera system, then buy one of the m43 cameras. The G11 is too different to be a substitute for these cameras, and they're not really a competitor for the G11. Canon is following the wait-and-see strategy. For some time, Canon has been rumoured to be working on a compact camera using the APS-C sensor (and so is Nikon), and I expect that they will come out with one if the EP-1 and the GF-1 turn out to be a sustained sales success (as opposed to the initial flurry of interest that greets anything that's new and different). With the G11, Canon is in a different ball game, and it promises to be an excellent camera that improves on the G10 in some important ways. Its closest competitor is the LX-3, and it'll be interesting to see what Panasonic comes up with as a successor to that camera. But it looks like we won't find out until next year...

Bob
 
ljfinger said:
If I'm going to buy a camera that doesn't fit in my pocket it either needs to be a superzoom so I have some flexibility, or it needs to be an SLR so I have some performance. These "little" non-compact non-SLR cameras with prime lenses and high cost have about as much appeal to me as an asphalt sandwich.

--
Lee Jay
Click to expand...
Well, maybe because I am so old, and the Nikon F I used in 1983 had a fixed lens, my Minolta X-700 a fixed lens, my Nikon F3hp a fixed lens, all five of my Pentax 67s had fixed lenses, both of my Contax T3s have a fixed lens and my 1Ds mark II has a fixed lens on it... I just never was conditioned to using a zoom lens, so even on all my Canon S70s, G9s, G10 it almost never occurs to me to even use the zoom.

I will admit, just today, in Rio De Janeiro, scouting my current job, I did in fact use the zoom on the G9. But had I only had a fixed 35mm lens I would have made do.

It is possible it is either because I am old, or I am misguided, but zoom lenses and articulating screens and face recognition fall into the category of "gimmick", at least for me.

I was never so happy as when I was shooting with my Contax T3 and that to me, is the pinnacle of a photographic tool, for me that is. No bells, no whistles, no frills, but a razor sharp lens, in a small body, built like a tank.

The Contax T3 inspired me to put every other camera I own onto a shelf, including my medium format film cameras. And I say, nobody, nobody has a clue if I used the T3 or a Leica M6 to shoot those negs. Nobody.

But ultimately, there is no one perfect camera. Like I said, I imagine my current perfect line-up might be something like 1. the S90 or G9 2. GF1 3. 1Ds mark II

(the G11 really has no place in my tool kit based on current or upcoming alternatives, I wish Canon made the camera that would blow the GF1 out of the water, but sadly, it does not?)

But, thats just me, and I obviously do not represent most camera buyers.

But as a professional photographer, I would like to think that there are a few cameras designed with my needs and my desires in mind. At least a handful?

And I can promise you, this is not spin. I have better things to do right now that write this, there is a bar down that street that would blow most grown men's minds out of their skulls. But I love my job. I care about the tools I use. I love Canon cameras.

There is nothing more I would love that to be freaking out over a compact camera with an APS-C sensor and a pancake lens that Canon announced today... but that is not the case.

--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
Robert Deutsch said:
If you don't like what the G11 offers, then don't buy it. If you want a camera with a much larger sensor, and don't mind the larger cameras/lenses that this entails, and you don't mind investing in yet another camera system, then buy one of the m43 cameras. The G11 is too different to be a substitute for these cameras, and they're not really a competitor for the G11. Canon is following the wait-and-see strategy. For some time, Canon has been rumoured to be working on a compact camera using the APS-C sensor (and so is Nikon), and I expect that they will come out with one if the EP-1 and the GF-1 turn out to be a sustained sales success (as opposed to the initial flurry of interest that greets anything that's new and different). With the G11, Canon is in a different ball game, and it promises to be an excellent camera that improves on the G10 in some important ways. Its closest competitor is the LX-3, and it'll be interesting to see what Panasonic comes up with as a successor to that camera. But it looks like we won't find out until next year...

Bob
Click to expand...
It would have been nice if Canon had the cajones to be a leader in this field rather than a follower. If I buy a GF1 or X1 I am not going to run out and buy Canon's year later response. Gonna stick to my guns on this. At least gonna try to.

--
holding out for a high quality FF compact...
 
I started with fixed-lens cameras, and moved onto an AE-1 with 50/1.8. Eventually got a 28/2.8 and 70-210. I was never happy with film because it's such a pain and so poor at high ISO. I then got a Rebel-S with some zooms including the 24-85. Despite the slower lens, I was MUCH happier shooting with that than a single, infuriating prime that was never at the right focal length.

But since I got my 10D, I haven't shot a single frame of film. Digital is just sooooo much better in every way it's not even close. Nothing makes me happier than having the right equipment to get the shot I want to get when I want it.

I have a 5D and 35/1.4L, and it is a magic combination. But I used to have a 35/2 and also a 20/1.8 for my 1.6-crop cameras. I was never really happy with that 20/1.8 because of poor focusing performance. The 35/2 was better but still not great. The 35L is fantastic. But I virtually never go out with just that one lens. Shooting with a prime is fine, but I need more than one for that, and I have three.

If I owned one of the new little cameras, I'd have either several primes or several zooms, which would defeat the entire purpose of having a smaller camera. I might as well take my SLRs which will crush them and not really be any larger - just better and more powerful.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
You know there comes a time when you just have to forget about the gear and get on with photography.These forums and the camera companies coming out with something new every quarter it seems can drive you mad.G10's sensor is tiny, sure, but really how big does every one need to print these days?My G10 at base ISO gives me 8x10's every bit as good as any 35mm film camera I've ever owned., and when I stitch several G10 images together like these shells I did with six images, it can give me quality that rivals my drum scanned 4x5 film work at 20x24.



--
A few of my shots:Please Calibrate Monitor to see all 21 steps



http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/77798595/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/54638350/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/53748575/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/94669213/original
http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/54649538/original
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top