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Does Sony's a850 Highlight how overpriced most DSLR's are ??

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do you really believe that I'll let you talk about stuff you clearly have no idea about it?

professionals (sport and PJ people) will get a D3 class of camera (or 1D MarkIIN) and they need the 300/400/600 and sometimes a 70-200 and a wide zoom (14-24 or 16-35). even a 24-70 may stay in the bag most of the time.

the other professionals (fashion and events) need a 70-200 and a standard zoom and a quality standard prime.

sony looks at the second category, not the first one.

and over there sony gives (today) the best offer. besides.. all the lenses are now stabilized and the resolution is quite frankly stunning thanks to the sensor, the AF and the german glass.

see?

that was easy, wasn't it?
rrcphoto said:
conory said:
Thats like comparing apples & oranges, Sony have been in the SLR business for 3 years, and canon have been making cameras & lenses for over 60 years, their bound to have more.
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we know that..that's why we state .. sony doesn't have the system. so it's moot on simply a body. sony's system FORCES you to purchase expensive lenses becuase they simply do not have the breadth that canon or nikon has.. so what's a cheap body when you are forced for instance to purchase a 85 1.4 because there is no 85 1.8 in the lineup? immediately with ONE lens, that benefits the MOST from FF .. your system cost just went over a D700 or a 5D2 with a 85 1.8 attached.

that's what options do for you. that's what you don't have.
rrcphoto said:
Besides having more doesnt necessarily make Canon better.
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more choice.

more choice = better options depending on your kit requirements. less choice = less options.

take around the 100-200 focal range .. how many options depending on price, size, weight, and optical characteristics can you choose from?

how about a lightweight backpacking kit for FF? zoom based? got anything that matches the portability of a 24-105/70-200/4?
rrcphoto said:
And I think the CZ lenses blow away any Canon equivalents...
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as they should at least some of them.

let's take the 24-70 as a comparison.

on one hand you are comparing your CZ lens to the first 2.8 24-70 manufacturered and pioneered by canon. I would hope that in the course of 6 or so years someone could do something better after they see what canon did.

and I beg to differ that the 85 1.4 is any better than the 85 1.2L which is legendary in it's optical performance .. or that your "G" 35mm 1.4 is any better than the 35mm 1.4 L .. or the 135/1.8 better than the 135/2.0 ..

up and down canon's lineup you have choices between the lightest/cheapest, middle prosumer, higher end consumer, and even choices within professional lenses.

that's what is called "buying into a system" means .. and that's where sony does indeed fall flat on it's face.

and that btw is sony's OWN FAULT.

marketting dictated they dropped the minolta lineup .. and rebrand the lenses as they have done for some.

instead of they just continued the KM line as it was prior .. the entire kit would look a ton more compelling as KM prior did have some exceptional glass and options.
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cityphotographer said:
do you really believe that I'll let you talk about stuff you clearly have no idea about it?
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why you do it all the time. even more humourous .. where in hell did I mention anything about your little pink skied world in there? you should actually read it again .. so you don't look like a TOTAL fool.
cityphotographer said:
professionals (sport and PJ people) will get a D3 class of camera (or 1D MarkIIN) and they need the 300/400/600 and sometimes a 70-200 and a wide zoom (14-24 or 16-35). even a 24-70 may stay in the bag most of the time.
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really .. no kidding what does this have to do with my comments? nothing.
cityphotographer said:
sony looks at the second category, not the first one.
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according to you. frankly their system is limited from top down.. but you have such a narrow perception of what a camera system is used for .. it doesn't surprise me that you would miss it entirely.

Now to be blunt. since you lack the capability to read.. I'll shorten this. let me know if I have to break out the crayolas for you.

you miss concepts of a system .. which of course doesn't really surprise me.

let me know when the entire world of photography is LIMITED to your narrow perception of the world and get back to me. then we'll talk. until then.. you should actually read what I wrote .. nowhere did I discuss "pro" especially your little corner of the universe .. requirements.
 
rrcphoto said:
JortS29 said:
rrcphoto said:
last time I checked sonystyle .. that's about all the lenses I saw ..

I mean seriously when you have to dust off a OMGZ, I can use old lenses .. well what body can't?
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Are you saying a 3 or 4 year old lens in mint condition and with optical qualities that leave nothing to be desired compared to the competition is something that should be disregarded, because.. well, it's not new? Maybe it doesn't provide equal bragging rights, but a photographer out for the shot would still gladly use it.
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sigh.

okay.. so if I can find "mint" lenses regardless of brand, manufacturer, etc .. that makes a "system"?

sony = system.

excuses don't cut it ... sorry ..

heck, I find find mint contax, olympus, pentax, canon and nikon lenses that all fits the EF mount .. does that make it part of the canon system too? because if a photographer wants to get the shot, they can glad use the hundreds of thousands EF mount compatable lenses out there.

of course not. it's what the manufacturer brands and sells as their own accessories, lenses, flashes, etc.

sony's "system" is what they currently sell. period. if you want service, support, etc .. and don't want to go to third party lenses, etc (which alot of us don't) then that's what you're going to buy. what sony sells .. not what is discontinued, ebayable, etc.
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rrc,

I think you have it right here about Sony's current paucity of lenses and PS support network not being up to "Pro" snuff. If you are a working pro who has been successfully using Nikon, or Canon's equipment and rely on their pro services, then moving to another DSLR platform doesn't make any practical, or structural sense.

I don't believe that those are the folks who will be initially interested in buying either of Sony's FF DSLR's. The majority of photographers that may be interested in becoming new Sony customers are probably coming from the advanced amateurs and photo hobbyist who currently have an APS DSLR's, and also a minimal investment in Nikon, or Canon lenses. Many Sony a700 owners are looking at the a850 as their natural upgrade path - IQ wise. And even more than a few "Pros" might consider snarfing up one as a third unit, or as something to use when they are not at work. Stabilized Zeiss lenses ( granted expensive and not as yet very plentiful ) pared with some of the highest resolution and overall IQ this side of MF is a very appealing consideration.
 
stevielee said:
rrcphoto said:
JortS29 said:
rrcphoto said:
last time I checked sonystyle .. that's about all the lenses I saw ..

I mean seriously when you have to dust off a OMGZ, I can use old lenses .. well what body can't?
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Are you saying a 3 or 4 year old lens in mint condition and with optical qualities that leave nothing to be desired compared to the competition is something that should be disregarded, because.. well, it's not new? Maybe it doesn't provide equal bragging rights, but a photographer out for the shot would still gladly use it.
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sigh.

okay.. so if I can find "mint" lenses regardless of brand, manufacturer, etc .. that makes a "system"?

sony = system.

excuses don't cut it ... sorry ..

heck, I find find mint contax, olympus, pentax, canon and nikon lenses that all fits the EF mount .. does that make it part of the canon system too? because if a photographer wants to get the shot, they can glad use the hundreds of thousands EF mount compatable lenses out there.

of course not. it's what the manufacturer brands and sells as their own accessories, lenses, flashes, etc.

sony's "system" is what they currently sell. period. if you want service, support, etc .. and don't want to go to third party lenses, etc (which alot of us don't) then that's what you're going to buy. what sony sells .. not what is discontinued, ebayable, etc.
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rrc,

I think you have it right here about Sony's current paucity of lenses and PS support network not being up to "Pro" snuff. If you are a working pro who has been successfully using Nikon, or Canon's equipment and rely on their pro services, then moving to another DSLR platform doesn't make any practical, or structural sense.
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heck, I'm not even talking pro grade .. that's woefully inadequate... from fast primes, etc. I'm talking kit choices.

I love my 24-70L .. but not on a 15km hike. 24-105/4 is alot nicer of a lens. or on EF-S .. 17-50 .. 10-22... etc.

same with a 70-200/2.8 .. nope, I'll pack the 70-300 or the 70-200/4.

If i'm looking at buying a particular lens (say the 70-200's .. choice is important.) for the NON dedicated pro..having system options is far more important than the working pro that most likely has assistants to carry the stuff ;)

we buy into a system .. and purchase lenses and gear as we go. I want my stuff somewhat supported / resellable .. and I very rarely if at all purchase outside of canon lenses (unless it's my estoric oly, pentax, contax glass for fun).

I'd say I'm pretty atypical .. when I spend the money for a new lens, I want canon to support it .. especially if it's a significant investment.

and I want choices, based upon size, weight and capability .. because not all shooting conditions are ever the same.

and we won't even get into IR photography which demands some lenses over others because of hot spots .. and having a kit with minimal lenses to choose from compounds that problem dramatically.

a camera system should fit the needs of the photographer within reason and of course cost. not the photographer should fit around the limited choices available by the manufacturer.

heck, even if I'm on location .. kit weight after a while if it's just me .. start tacking on flashes, batteries, stands, plus 2.8 glass .. plus .. and plus .. I feel like a sherpa by the end of the day.

(the hotspotting is one reason I avoid for the most part tamron / simga lenses ... use with IR is wildly varied that way - and very limited information on which ones actually do work well with IR).
 
exactly
you have no idea about what you are (in here) talking about
and it shows, clearly

one more thing: notice that I never (ever) need to offend anyone in here with direct offensive remarks like you do.

see?

now understand (if you can) that's not because I don;t know how to do it (I do .. bbbelieve me) : I just don't need it. and that's class

LOL
rrcphoto said:
cityphotographer said:
do you really believe that I'll let you talk about stuff you clearly have no idea about it?
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why you do it all the time. even more humourous .. where in hell did I mention anything about your little pink skied world in there? you should actually read it again .. so you don't look like a TOTAL fool.
rrcphoto said:
professionals (sport and PJ people) will get a D3 class of camera (or 1D MarkIIN) and they need the 300/400/600 and sometimes a 70-200 and a wide zoom (14-24 or 16-35). even a 24-70 may stay in the bag most of the time.
Click to expand...
really .. no kidding what does this have to do with my comments? nothing.
rrcphoto said:
sony looks at the second category, not the first one.
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according to you. frankly their system is limited from top down.. but you have such a narrow perception of what a camera system is used for .. it doesn't surprise me that you would miss it entirely.

Now to be blunt. since you lack the capability to read.. I'll shorten this. let me know if I have to break out the crayolas for you.

you miss concepts of a system .. which of course doesn't really surprise me.

let me know when the entire world of photography is LIMITED to your narrow perception of the world and get back to me. then we'll talk. until then.. you should actually read what I wrote .. nowhere did I discuss "pro" especially your little corner of the universe .. requirements.
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yes absolutely

but what I wanted to say wasn't the "issue" per se but the availability and speed of the zeiss assistance

that said we had canon products sold as "professional" like the 70-200 2.8IS locking the camera because of a faulty IS (and it took years to be replaced) . again the ring of the 24-70 2.8 literally falling off , another semi-professional lens like the 50 1.4 failing the AF completely to the point that canon had to issue a "flat rate" just for that lens (meaning that they know very well that eventually will fail)

but the service with canon is first class, to be honest they do back up their stuff with repairs in the order of days.

:)
roweraay said:
I personally have 4 of these very same Zeiss lenses: 16-35 f/2.8 SSM Vario-Sonnar, the 24-70 f/2.8 SSM Vario-Sonnar, the 85mm f/1.4 Planar and the 135mm f/1.8 Sonnar.

However, the heavy full metal hood of the Zeiss 135mm f/1.8 (all of these lenses have full metal hoods but the 135mm's hood in particular is large and heavy) seemingly causes some play to develop over time, at the point where it mounts to the lens (due to its weight), even though it has not happened to me - yet. The best option is to replace the heavy metal hood on the 135mm with a cheaper plastic or rubber hood - problem solved. I am personally willing to live with this inconvenience for the sheer optical brilliance of the 135mm f/1.8 Sonnar lens (remember that the 135mm f/1.8 has almost a 24% larger aperture size than the Canon 135mm f/2L) with brilliant performance right from wide open on the challenging territory of a high-resolution 24.6MP Full-frame.
cityphotographer said:
well ... there are reports about zeiss lenses giving the same problems over and over, actually.

that can be a problem for sony

the other problem is that I still don't see much in the rentals, and that too can drive many pros away
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cityphotographer said:
exactly
you have no idea about what you are (in here) talking about
and it shows, clearly
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again .. you .. can .. not .. read.

this has nor was my orginal comment that you so responded to with such a warped sense of self superiority and this one .. clearly shows you lack any fundamentals of comprehension that in reality your little corner of the universe means nothing in the context to what I wrote.

have a wonderful day...

now if you want to go back one post and read what I wrote, perhaps my point of view on a system you'd recognize is completely different and no less valid than your perspective that you seem content to hammer through my head.

which is pointless .. because I think I know what I look for in a system and how I choose gear for myself with far more clarity and understanding of the choices I make then you ever would.
 
rrcphoto said:
stevielee said:
I could be wrong here, but I would hazard to guess that R&D times might speed up a bit from their rather languid pace of 12, or more months these last few years. When digital imaging was first getting it's first footing, development was quite slow by comparison to today's rapid-paced standard. And for newer, upstart players like Sony - who seem to have very little reverence for others companies "schedules", this is a very fertile ground to eek out what used to be either Canon's, or Nikon's entrenched market share.
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yes, you are completely wrong.

there's an ebb or flow to it, and it entirely rests around LEGAL aspects of technology .. such as patents. the time to market on a new idea is still around 4+ years.

even if your competitor comes out with a new concept .. they patented it .. 4 years back.

if you have nothing in your stock patents to cover it.. you first have to R&D a new way of doing it, submit a patent and then sit on it for years - or beg and license it from someone else that does hold a similar technology patent.

a good case and point .. depending on what video implementation we see and assuming canon doesn't hold it back to the 1 series.. there's in all likihood we'll see the first release of a new liveview video AF system in the 7D.

that was developed, tested and field tested back in 2004.

I'm 99.9% sure it was field tested because it's a series of 3 patents that cleared through, and right down to firmware implementations and various solutions that are non-theoretical in nature.

so innovation will still continue at it's own pace, as defined by the nature of technology and the rights to use specific forms and ideas into your products. that has not changed, and sony like any other company can't change that.

however in the concept of the A850 .. it's a firmware change and a different faceplate .. there is nothing startling innovative nor advanced about what they did.

They are simply following the same path as the other consumer products .. "shelf stuffing" .. having many different similar products in the hopes that if you see alot of them, you'll purchase one of theirs.

in other words - this is a marketting defined body- not a technology based one. Amusingly this usually is ripped apart in canon land (omg, marketting had too much influence) .. whereas this is the only reason this body exists.
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I confess that I possess very little to none actual inside knowledge as to the details and processes of Canon Inc. I am not in a position to have true "inside" information as to what any of these companies are really up to. You sound like you have a great deal more knowledge as to how it all works. Thanks for the great info.

And as you predict, I do except something very "special" and groundbreaking next week from Canon with the 7D?. Sony might have caught my diminishing attention span with the a850, but after surprising us all with the original 5D, I think that Canon still hold the capacity to dazzle...
 
stevielee said:
I confess that I very little to none inside knowledge as to the actual details and process of Canon Inc. I am not in a position to have true "inside" information as to what any of these companies are really up to. You sound like you have a great deal more knowledge as to how it all works. Thanks for the great info.
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I had to what seems to be sooo many moons ago deal with patents,etc.. but I never recalled it being as bad as what I'm seeing now .. patents submitted in 2004 .. issued in 2009 .. that's crazy stuff...

I got curious a few months back when I blew out my back and spent some time reading through the canon patents .. it's amazing what they COULD have implemented . years ago if it wasn't for the patent office .. makes you wonder exactly how far technology on a whole is held up just by company's needs to protect their right to develop and market something.

I think we'll see some interesting stuff on the 7D .. but it also wouldn't surprise me if canon went .. "that's enough for this one that is new" .. canon is also dealing with changing across all DSLR's the underlying firmware OS .. that started with the 50D last year .. and I'm sure has it's characteristical birthing pains as they port the various camera's firmware code over to the new OS...

but everything takes so much time .. a 1 series body takes 3 years from conception to roll out .. a single lens takes around 4 years from concept to release .. at times I simply shake my head and go .. how DO these companies do this? the amount of preplanning .. tactical decision trees, prototypes variations to counter possible competitive products .. it simply must be staggering .. especially at the pace it's going at now.

canon releases the 1D Mark III for instance and as soon as the dust is cleared, they start working immediately on the Mark IV .. even worse is the XXD series .. as they are releasing say the 50D, they are already starting the designs for the 70D! .. imagine that? .. they must come up with multiple designs .. take them nearly all the way to finalization .. and then decide which one of the designs actually makes it to market (probably explains such a wide variety of rumours all the time) - that's got to be costly ..
 
rrcphoto said:
stevielee said:
I confess that I very little to none inside knowledge as to the actual details and process of Canon Inc. I am not in a position to have true "inside" information as to what any of these companies are really up to. You sound like you have a great deal more knowledge as to how it all works. Thanks for the great info.
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I had to what seems to be sooo many moons ago deal with patents,etc.. but I never recalled it being as bad as what I'm seeing now .. patents submitted in 2004 .. issued in 2009 .. that's crazy stuff...

I got curious a few months back when I blew out my back and spent some time reading through the canon patents .. it's amazing what they COULD have implemented . years ago if it wasn't for the patent office .. makes you wonder exactly how far technology on a whole is held up just by company's needs to protect their right to develop and market something.

I think we'll see some interesting stuff on the 7D .. but it also wouldn't surprise me if canon went .. "that's enough for this one that is new" .. canon is also dealing with changing across all DSLR's the underlying firmware OS .. that started with the 50D last year .. and I'm sure has it's characteristical birthing pains as they port the various camera's firmware code over to the new OS...

but everything takes so much time .. a 1 series body takes 3 years from conception to roll out .. a single lens takes around 4 years from concept to release .. at times I simply shake my head and go .. how DO these companies do this? the amount of preplanning .. tactical decision trees, prototypes variations to counter possible competitive products .. it simply must be staggering .. especially at the pace it's going at now.
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I know. We are all so spoiled a bit with just how good it is right now in digital photography. But as I stated when I started this post - I still think that it's all somewhat overpriced as compared to how he rest of the technological areas have come down dramatically. Since Sony has attempted to become a player, It just feels to me like things have speeded up a notch...
 
I know it's a forum about photo, and that most people here just focus on photo. But the 5DII is more or less the beginning of a revolution. Not so much for photographers, but because of its video features. It's not perfect for sure, but it's low light abilities, combined with the lenses that you can put it in front of it is simply ground breaking. It gives more or less similar results to video cameras costing 10 times more, and weighting also much more. Professional video shooters use it because of this, it's small, you don't need much light, it's CHEAP, and you can put amazing pieces of glass in front of it.

So ok, this is dpreview, P stands for "Photo", I get that. But to summarize "Sony recent FF = revolution / Canon recent FF = boring" is a bit simplistic in my opinion. We all have to watch at a wider picture. If I'm looking at Amazon sales for DSLR bodies, in France, 5DII, #10, A900, #39. In the US for DSLR, 5DII, #15, A900 is not even in the top 100!

What are we talking about here? It's nice to have a good price and apparently good specs, but if you cannot translate this into SALES, who cares?? Are you really sure that Canon and Nikon are in such troubles?
--
Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88943939@N00/
 
risbac said:
I know it's a forum about photo, and that most people here just focus on photo. But the 5DII is more or less the beginning of a revolution. Not so much for photographers, but because of its video features. It's not perfect for sure, but it's low light abilities, combined with the lenses that you can put it in front of it is simply ground breaking. It gives more or less similar results to video cameras costing 10 times more, and weighting also much more. Professional video shooters use it because of this, it's small, you don't need much light, it's CHEAP, and you can put amazing pieces of glass in front of it.

So ok, this is dpreview, P stands for "Photo", I get that. But to summarize "Sony recent FF = revolution / Canon recent FF = boring" is a bit simplistic in my opinion. We all have to watch at a wider picture. If I'm looking at Amazon sales for DSLR bodies, in France, 5DII, #10, A900, #39. In the US for DSLR, 5DII, #15, A900 is not even in the top 100!

What are we talking about here? It's nice to have a good price and apparently good specs, but if you cannot translate this into SALES, who cares?? Are you really sure that Canon and Nikon are in such troubles?
--
Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88943939@N00/
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Keep your eye on the Amazon sales rankings when the a850 is released to the general public. I'm going out on a limb here and say that within a month, or two after it's released it will approach the top 20-25 - if not higher. The first reviews coming out have been raving - especially at this price point - with probably a realist street cost of $1699-$1799 by next spring. It could even come bundles with the new "kit" lens: Sony 28-75/2.8 SAM - for less than what just the 5D II body alone is selling for.

The pricing war is definitely on....
 
stevielee said:
Keep your eye on the Amazon sales rankings when the a850 is released to the general public. I'm going out on a limb here and say that within a month, or two after it's released it will approach the top 20-25 - if not higher.
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I agree with you, you are surely right. I just wanted to underline that the comments here are a bit simplistic. Sure, Sony will sell more with the a850. But if you read posts in this forum, it sounds like tons of people will switch to Sony. Sales of the A900 don't confirm this, and sales of the A850 won't crush sales of the 5DII I think.

In any case, competition is good for us, that's all that matters to me ;)

--
Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88943939@N00/
 
rrcphoto said:
okay.. so if I can find "mint" lenses regardless of brand, manufacturer, etc .. that makes a "system"?
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If the camera works perfectly and is fully functional with the lenses without the use of weird adapters, why not?
rrcphoto said:
sony = system.

excuses don't cut it ... sorry ..
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Narrow mindness doesn't help your thinking.
rrcphoto said:
heck, I find find mint contax, olympus, pentax, canon and nikon lenses that all fits the EF mount .. does that make it part of the canon system too? because if a photographer wants to get the shot, they can glad use the hundreds of thousands EF mount compatable lenses out there.
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I don't see why not. Especially if it's not too hard to find one, they are fully functional and can compete with modern glass and if they don't use any adapters that handicap functionality or size.

If someone owns an Alpha camera with tons of fast Minolta primes only, it's hard to maintain the position that his/her system contains of a body only. And this is actual reality. Many Alpha users are in that exact position without complaints. ;)
 
You're trying to claim that Canon aborted a potential 5D successor targeted for a February '08 release. Unlike Nikon (or at least Nikon of old) when Canon announce a model then it's normally ready to ship within a month or two. In order to achieve that a design must have been finalized, production tooling been created and manufacture of longer lead components started. It would have been incredibly expensive to drop a model at that point.

IF, as you claim, Canon saw Sony's plans and decided to redesign the 5DII it would have to have been well before that point (they wouldn't have booked a press conference and cancelled it). A near-ready model could have been on the market and selling well for 6-9 months before the A900 turned up. They could have gone with that and prepared a 5DIII or 3D for the following year to address Sony's offering if they needed too (a 16M pixel 5DII model from early '08 would probably still be selling well today and would be able to be discounted further as the design costs would be mostly depreciated).

So, having gone through the logical consistencies of my position, including how the 5DII's release fits in precisely with Canon's known release schedule (either they would have released it at the point that Sony were just starting to show mock-ups of the A900, 18 months after the original 5D, or exactly when it did arrive) it's your job to attempt to disprove it, not mine. This isn't just for me, this is for anyone else who reads this thread and is trying to decide who is correct. It's not my homework but yours that is missing. Excuses like the dog ate it will not suffice.
cityphotographer said:
now hurry up and do your homework, no distractions and absolutely don't ask anybody to do it for you. You have to do it.

get the dates, the releases, everything nicely and well organized then come back and submit your work: I'll review it and if you did a good then I'll tell you

now go, hurry up. go to study
spt_gb said:
anyone who says "I can't be bothered to post my own evidence, go prove my point for me" is a BS merchant lacking any of the proof they claim. I'd love to see you try that in a court of law "I'm innocent your honor, do your own homework to prove it". BTW rumors on DPR don't count as evidence.

Sony have done WHAT precisely? Canon invented the budget FF DSLR, in the same way that they invented the budget APS C DSLR with the 300D. They had the market to themselves for the best part of 3 years before Nikon came up with the D700. The A900 was, at best, the 3rd entry in the market. All the A850 seems to have done is to reduce the spec of the A900 and trim the price a little. It's not revolutionary.
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spt_gb said:
You're trying to claim that Canon aborted a potential 5D successor targeted for > a February '08 release.
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This is a pet theory he trolls this forum with constantly, like his AF theory, he has never produced a shred of evidence to support these claims....except of course shooting at his quadrophonic speakers with the 5DII, and saying the AF is no good !
 
I belive that sony must be very desperate - and therefore very aggressive in marketing and pricing - i would not be surprised if sony will give up on the DSLR marketplace - does anybody has marketshare figures of the the 3-5 big DSLP ones worldwide?

btw: The 5D2 is a very well priced camera -
.
 
What is the (common) Reasons to buy 5D2

speed? No
high iso to D3 standard? No
Raw headroom? No
dynamic range? No
features? No
auto iso range? No
MEGAPIXEL? Yes .... cheaper than 1Ds3 with 21MP FF

And now.....
here comes an even cheaper than A900 24MP FF

I believe next year there will be a plastic body "entry level" Full Frame
inisiated by Sony
 
Many years ago a beer company had a series of ads on TV where they had people who were regular drinkers of brand X drink their beer. At the end of the commercial they would survey the X brand drinkers and then claim that 7% or whatever of X brand drinkers would switch to the advertisers brand.

The firm I was with at that time happened to represent that beer company. I asked one of their executives why they would brag about switching a relatively small percentage of X brand drinkers. he told me that just getting 1% of the X brand drinkers to switch was worth 100s of millions of dollars to their company

Back in the 1930s, Kodak gave away cameras. It was some kind of anniversary for Kodak and it is was in the middle of the depression. I asked my Dad (who was the recipient of one of those cameras) why they had given away cameras. His answer was film sales. Kodak (at that time) had a virtual monopoly on film sales.

Ask any camera store owner and they will tell you that the camera bodies have minimal profits. The real profits in camera sales are in the lenses and accessories. Just think, if Sony could convince a couple of percent of all Nikon and Canon DSLR owners to switch and get some current Sony DSLR owners to move up to FF, then lens and accessory sales will probably increase their profits. it is all about market share.
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