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any lawyers out there? can they ban us?

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mal28

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I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this "law" too vague to be legal?

what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
 
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?
Click to expand...
Attending a sporting even isn't an entitlement. You do so at the sufferance of the owners of the teams and the facilities. They are free to choose the conditions under which they are willing to operate.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
It's kind of like movie theaters that won't let you bring in food items, or a restaurant that won't let you bring in your own wine, unless you pay a "corkage" charge. Those football shots are potentially very valuable.

Can they do it? Almost certainly. Their are technical legal challenges one could make, but (I believe) the stadium people would win. Here's a suggestion: You might be able to get special permission, if you agree in writing not to sell or distribute the photos. Browns fans have been very loyal over the years, through thick and thin. Management might actually do something for you. If you're a season ticket holder, someone in management might bend the rule for you.

Good luck. You need a quarterback.

JMB

--
D60 / EOS 630
70-200 4L
20-35 USM
28 2.8
50 1.8
PowerMac G4
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
 
Ron Parr said:
Attending a sporting even isn't an entitlement. You do so at the
sufferance of the owners of the teams and the facilities. They are
free to choose the conditions under which they are willing to
operate.
Click to expand...
Such as a Public School or Public Fairgrounds?

What about a football stadium that was built with taxpayer money?

What if Garth Brooks comes to town and performs in the middle of Main Street, Small Town, USA ?

What if you want pictures of your teenager in the local High School game that is taking place on Public High School grounds?

This is going to go to a high court somewhere as soon as someone fights it..

Murphy
 
Ron, you're pretty much right.

If one really wanted to make a federal case out of it, there are circumstances that could make a difference, however. For example, they can't exclude you and your big lens if (1) they're actually excluding you on the basis of your race, religion, etc.; (2) the ticket contract doesn't include a standard clause allowing them to restrict your entry; (3) there is a state statute, signed by a photography-positive governor, that says they can't exclude amateur photographers with big lenses; (4) the event has such public significance that your exclusion would implicate First Amendment or public policy concerns; or (here's a cute one) the NFL's monopoly on big-lens photographs of its games is considered to be unreasonable restriction on an "essential facility" [i.e., the game is so damn important that the courts won't let the NFL completely exclude non-licensed coverage].

That's why people don't like lawyers ;)
Ron Parr said:
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?
Click to expand...
Attending a sporting even isn't an entitlement. You do so at the
sufferance of the owners of the teams and the facilities. They are
free to choose the conditions under which they are willing to
operate.

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
Click to expand...
--
D60 / EOS 630
70-200 4L
20-35 USM
28 2.8
50 1.8
 
First off, I'm not a lawyer. That said:
Murphy said:
Such as a Public School or Public Fairgrounds?

What about a football stadium that was built with taxpayer money?
Click to expand...
If these areas are closed off and you are buying tickets, then you are entering into an agreement when you buy the tickets. Read the back of the ticket.
murphy said:
What if Garth Brooks comes to town and performs in the middle of
Main Street, Small Town, USA ?
Click to expand...
The law for photographing people in public places is well understood. You are free to do this, but there may be limits on the ways you can use the photographs. You can search on the web for these details...
murphy said:
What if you want pictures of your teenager in the local High School
game that is taking place on Public High School grounds?
Click to expand...
This is an interesting one. Schools have weird authorities that don't always make sense.
murphy said:
This is going to go to a high court somewhere as soon as someone
fights it..
Click to expand...
There's not much to fight over in most of these cases. When you buy a ticket to see a performance, you're entering into a contract and you need to obey by the terms of the contract. When you're in a public place, there are well established rules for what you can do.

The school one will probably create some interesting controversies though...

--
Ron Parr
FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
And some lawyers can't spell, either.
JMB said:
Can they do it? Almost certainly. Their are technical legal
challenges one could make, but (I believe) the stadium people would
win. Here's a suggestion: You might be able to get special
permission, if you agree in writing not to sell or distribute the
photos. Browns fans have been very loyal over the years, through
thick and thin. Management might actually do something for you.
If you're a season ticket holder, someone in management might bend
the rule for you.

Good luck. You need a quarterback.

JMB

--
D60 / EOS 630
70-200 4L
20-35 USM
28 2.8
50 1.8
PowerMac G4
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
D60 / EOS 630
70-200 4L
20-35 USM
28 2.8
50 1.8
 
I can run numbers in my head like you wouldnt believe, but Im a horrible speller..

Most times its because Im typing away at about 70 wpm and dont care to proof read.

What's your point?
JMB said:
JMB said:
Can they do it? Almost certainly. Their are technical legal
challenges one could make, but (I believe) the stadium people would
win. Here's a suggestion: You might be able to get special
permission, if you agree in writing not to sell or distribute the
photos. Browns fans have been very loyal over the years, through
thick and thin. Management might actually do something for you.
If you're a season ticket holder, someone in management might bend
the rule for you.

Good luck. You need a quarterback.

JMB

--
D60 / EOS 630
70-200 4L
20-35 USM
28 2.8
50 1.8
PowerMac G4
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
D60 / EOS 630
70-200 4L
20-35 USM
28 2.8
50 1.8
Click to expand...
 
There is another issue, some sporting events prihibit large lenses as a "security issue".

However, when was the last time you read "out of control photographer uses $1500 zoom lens to attack rival fan?" o:r "fake Canon 35-350 lems used to sneek beer into stadium?"
 
Some stadiums now prohibit you bringing almost anything into the stadium. No bottles, no coolers, etc. I suppose they could be afraid that you'll hit someone over the head with that 600mm f4... or get mad at the ref and throw it at him. LOL
 
This brings up other interesting questions, since the pics can be so valuable. The "pros" at all the events that get sideline, baseline, etc access to shoot from, do they pay for this access? Do they have to buy a ticket? Do they have a contract with the team/league that makes them pay a percentage of their sales? Is it posibble that the reason the facilities are cracking down on fans with long lenses is that the "pros" are crying about the possible "compitition" should a fan in the seats posibbly get luck with a shot or two? Hmmm...
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
--
Chris
 
wolfwatcher said:
This brings up other interesting questions, since the pics can be
so valuable. The "pros" at all the events that get sideline,
baseline, etc access to shoot from, do they pay for this access? Do
they have to buy a ticket? Do they have a contract with the
team/league that makes them pay a percentage of their sales? Is it
posibble that the reason the facilities are cracking down on fans
with long lenses is that the "pros" are crying about the possible
"compitition" should a fan in the seats posibbly get luck with a
shot or two? Hmmm...
Click to expand...
Good point.
wolfwatcher said:
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
--
Chris
Click to expand...
 
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
Click to expand...
You might want to check out this link to the Browns' site. It says what can and can not be brought in (scroll about halfway down). To summarize:

Allowed - "Cameras and video equipment are allowed but must not interfere with another guests' enjoyment of the game. The images reproduced may not be used commercially."

NOT Allowed - "Large camera cases."

Fairly reasonable, I'd say.

The link: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/stadium/policies_ada.php#prohibited

Scott

--
My Galleries:

http://www.pbase.com/sdommin
 
Guy posted some photos from a Titans-Raiders game a couple of days ago. Apparently there's not a standard policy, or if there is, it's not standardly enforced. Thread is here, http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3261522 Another poster on the same thread claimed that he wasn't allowed to take a camera into a Chiefs-Texans game.

I lost interest in pro sports several years ago, and prefer shooting at high school sporting events and small colleges. I've never been questioned, and can actually prowl the sidelines. Living in small town Texas, there's always a local paper that's looking for photos of the local kids playing.

I generally just don't go places that won't allow photography. I'm probably jumping you way off topic, but I don't understand sitting in the stands and shooting at professional events when you can get far better photos and have a good chance of getting them published shooting at high school and small college events. If you GOTTA shoot at pro events, check with small newspapers and see if you can wrangle a press pass.
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
 
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
 
Stephen Cook said:
I'm
probably jumping you way off topic, but I don't understand sitting
in the stands and shooting at professional events when you can get
far better photos and have a good chance of getting them published
shooting at high school and small college events.
Click to expand...
Maybe the clue isn't that we all want pictures published...

Maybe it's because we happen to already be going to the game and then figure that we might as well take some pictures. Or we are going with someone who wanted to go...

Not everything in life is motivated by photography or the opportunity to get photos published.

-Geir
 
GOiNK said:
Maybe it's because we happen to already be going to the game and
then figure that we might as well take some pictures. Or we are
going with someone who wanted to go...
Click to expand...
Or that our Employer has access to Sideline Dream Seats at FedEx Field :)

And speaking of FedEx Field, I have never had an assue taking any camera (SLR or P&S) there. Unless there is a concert there, that is.

-----------------
David
Washington, DC
 
... or they used to in Cleveland.

The snowballs belong to Bronco fans.
Re: 49ers FG kicker? (A few years back)

Or maybe I shouldn't use "fans" so loosely.
 
Red Wings Hockey (Current Stanley Cup Champions :-) ) will not allow any camera with a removable lens. Sometimes you can walk around to other entrances and try your luck...
mal28 said:
I have noticed several posts about people being told they cannot
bring large telephoto lens to sporting events. I like to take the
D60 and a large lens to Brown's games, Indian's game etc. Can they
legally prevent this and allow point and shot cameras? Is this
"law" too vague to be legal?
what is too long? Is the Canon100-400 not acceptable but the
smaller Tamron 28-300 ok?

thanks
Click to expand...
 
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