D40, D50 or D60 ?

CM_laptop wrote:

Errr... I already mentioned eBay in my earlier post, did you miss it? As for purchasing overseas, that brings with it the added costs of shipping and insurance and the possibility of having to pay customs duty and VAT. Furthermore, from a private seller the item will naturally be sold as seen without any form of warranty. Quite a risk considering the amount of money a functioning D50 can fetch:

http://snipurl.com/olix6 £265
http://snipurl.com/olivt £260

http://snipurl.com/oliz9 the USB connector is faulty on this one and yet it still almost reached £200!
The D50 discontinued 3 years ago is till fetching more (not hundreds of sterling more, mind you)......that is a testament to what a camera it is & that it's features are still sought after.
I wonder if we come back to this forum in another three years if people like you will continue to offer it as a recommendation?
Yes; unless Nikon in the meantime offers a low cost solution that can benefit the OP. This snide remark of yours only shows your intention to spoil for a fight....will you still be doing that in 3 years time? :D
Not snide, it was a genuine question. Too many people are too quick to offer the D50 as a suggestion without realising the practical difficulties of obtaining a model that is 3 years out of date.
Sigh. You mentioned ebay. Just so you know: there's no VAT if you're a UK buyer purchasing goods from the EU.
Not to mention the fact you completely ignored the OP's requirements, which he has since addressed in his response to you.
Not really, no. Not to mention the fact that his last post was very misleading to lurkers who might be gleaning for info.
Finally, I find it laughable that you should accuse me of being snide when you prefaced your initial post to the OP with a thinly veiled insult! It might be a good idea to practice what you preach, if you want people to take your posts seriously in future.
Really? You might want to revise your comprehension skills; just make sure you're doing it in the mirror ;)

Just to get you off the warpath & back on track; what in your opinion makes the D40 a better choice than the D50?
 
CM_laptop wrote:

Errr... I already mentioned eBay in my earlier post, did you miss it? As for purchasing overseas, that brings with it the added costs of shipping and insurance and the possibility of having to pay customs duty and VAT. Furthermore, from a private seller the item will naturally be sold as seen without any form of warranty. Quite a risk considering the amount of money a functioning D50 can fetch:

http://snipurl.com/olix6 £265
http://snipurl.com/olivt £260

http://snipurl.com/oliz9 the USB connector is faulty on this one and yet it still almost reached £200!
The D50 discontinued 3 years ago is till fetching more (not hundreds of sterling more, mind you)......that is a testament to what a camera it is & that it's features are still sought after.
The D50 was a great camera and still is, but its cult-like status has pushed its second hand value to unrealistic levels. Furthermore, the OP has stated that the D40 would be preferable for his purposes , so there is no need to argue this further - his decision has been made.
I wonder if we come back to this forum in another three years if people like you will continue to offer it as a recommendation?
Yes; unless Nikon in the meantime offers a low cost solution that can benefit the OP. This snide remark of yours only shows your intention to spoil for a fight....will you still be doing that in 3 years time? :D
Not snide, it was a genuine question. Too many people are too quick to offer the D50 as a suggestion without realising the practical difficulties of obtaining a model that is 3 years out of date.
Sigh. You mentioned ebay. Just so you know: there's no VAT if you're a UK buyer purchasing goods from the EU.
From the EU yes, but the largest second hand market is still the US and any purchases from there would be subject to VAT and import duty. Aside from this, you will still have costly postage/insurance from EU. Above all of this nitpicking, however, the main issue remains that if the OP were to purchase a D50 from a private seller and a fault was to develop he would have zero recourse.
Not to mention the fact you completely ignored the OP's requirements, which he has since addressed in his response to you.
Not really, no. Not to mention the fact that his last post was very misleading to lurkers who might be gleaning for info.
There was nothing misleading in this thread until you showed up. Any lurkers that read his last post will see that it was fully justified in the context of his requirements.
Finally, I find it laughable that you should accuse me of being snide when you prefaced your initial post to the OP with a thinly veiled insult! It might be a good idea to practice what you preach, if you want people to take your posts seriously in future.
Really? You might want to revise your comprehension skills; just make sure you're doing it in the mirror ;)
Again, you are the only person that has failed to grasp the OP's clearly stated requirements. I would suggest that you read his response to your initial post again, but I fear you're a lost cause when it comes to reasoning and logic.
Just to get you off the warpath & back on track; what in your opinion makes the D40 a better choice than the D50?
Once again (can you see a pattern forming here?), the OP has already made his decision, so my opinion is now irrelevant. However, in the OP's specific case, the following reasons stand out in favour of choosing the D40 over the D50:
  • Cheaper
  • Still available new or second hand with guarantee
  • Smaller size ( a key requirement for the OP's application )
  • Larger LCD screen with higher resolution (2.5" 230,000 pixel vs 2.0" 130,000 pixels)
  • Better viewfinder
  • Improved JPEG engine
  • Improved Auto ISO mode
  • Improved user interface
Granted the D40 lacks the inbody focus motor, but this has become less of an issue than it once was now that Nikon appear committed to releasing cost effective AF-S DX lenses (take the AF-S 35 mm prime as an example).

Let's set the record straight CM_laptop. The OP made a simple request for advice on which of the D40, D50 or D60 would be preferable for his young son. He was given enough opinions to make an informed decision and went on to choose the D40. He outlined his reasoning unambiguously for anyone to read in the following posts:

" To be fair I would go for a bigger body if I was the main user, but it is for my 8 year old son. The D40 ticks all the boxes. I can get a refurb with 3 months guarantee for less than £200. "

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=32551179

" Not really, I much prefer heavy gear. But this is for my 8 year old son. I know the choices - just wondered if there was a reason for choosing one over another. Decent high ISO performance is reason enough. Light weight is another. The D40 seems to tick all the necesary boxes whereas the D50 and D60 don't.

I understand the difference between heavy gear and light gear. I just didn't know the differences between light gear and other light gear.
"

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=32563379

This however, was not enough for you was it? You proceeded to insult the OP and, due to your anti-D40 prejudice, went on to say that his reasoning was flat out wrong! Now, clearly the OP is not a newbie, having owned more than one semi-pro Nikon DSLR, so the more level-headed amongst us would realise that he is more than capable of making his own decisions on this issue. It's your attitude of " I know what's best for you better than you do yourself " that makes your posts so hard to swallow and unfortunately that same arrogance and condescension is reflected in most of your contributions on this site.
 
CM_laptop wrote:

Errr... I already mentioned eBay in my earlier post, did you miss it? As for purchasing overseas, that brings with it the added costs of shipping and insurance and the possibility of having to pay customs duty and VAT. Furthermore, from a private seller the item will naturally be sold as seen without any form of warranty. Quite a risk considering the amount of money a functioning D50 can fetch:

http://snipurl.com/olix6 £265
http://snipurl.com/olivt £260

http://snipurl.com/oliz9 the USB connector is faulty on this one and yet it still almost reached £200!
The D50 discontinued 3 years ago is till fetching more (not hundreds of sterling more, mind you)......that is a testament to what a camera it is & that it's features are still sought after.
The D50 was a great camera and still is, but its cult-like status has pushed its second hand value to unrealistic levels. Furthermore, the OP has stated that the D40 would be preferable for his purposes , so there is no need to argue this further - his decision has been made.
You mean he's just trolling; since his decision has already been made? I hope not.

(Snipped a bit here, not very relevant to the discussion)
Not to mention the fact you completely ignored the OP's requirements, which he has since addressed in his response to you.
Not really, no. Not to mention the fact that his last post was very misleading to lurkers who might be gleaning for info.
There was nothing misleading in this thread until you showed up. Any lurkers that read his last post will see that it was fully justified in the context of his requirements.
.....but they would not have sufficient info regarding ht e differnces bteween the D50 & the D40. That's the point.
Finally, I find it laughable that you should accuse me of being snide when you prefaced your initial post to the OP with a thinly veiled insult! It might be a good idea to practice what you preach, if you want people to take your posts seriously in future.
Really? You might want to revise your comprehension skills; just make sure you're doing it in the mirror ;)
Again, you are the only person that has failed to grasp the OP's clearly stated requirements. I would suggest that you read his response to your initial post again, but I fear you're a lost cause when it comes to reasoning and logic.
See who's the aggresive one here? It's completely beyond you JoKing; you're simply not able to discuss the issue with me without insulting me. How very nice of you :)
Just to get you off the warpath & back on track; what in your opinion makes the D40 a better choice than the D50?
Once again (can you see a pattern forming here?), the OP has already made his decision, so my opinion is now irrelevant. However, in the OP's specific case, the following reasons stand out in favour of choosing the D40 over the D50:
  • Cheaper
  • Still available new or second hand with guarantee
  • Smaller size ( a key requirement for the OP's application )
  • Larger LCD screen with higher resolution (2.5" 230,000 pixel vs 2.0" 130,000 pixels)
  • Better viewfinder
  • Improved JPEG engine
  • Improved Auto ISO mode
  • Improved user interface
Granted the D40 lacks the inbody focus motor, but this has become less of an issue than it once was now that Nikon appear committed to releasing cost effective AF-S DX lenses (take the AF-S 35 mm prime as an example).

Let's set the record straight CM_laptop. The OP made a simple request for advice on which of the D40, D50 or D60 would be preferable for his young son. He was given enough opinions to make an informed decision and went on to choose the D40. He outlined his reasoning unambiguously for anyone to read in the following posts:

" To be fair I would go for a bigger body if I was the main user, but it is for my 8 year old son. The D40 ticks all the boxes. I can get a refurb with 3 months guarantee for less than £200. "
Then I wonder why the OP started this discussion in the first place......
This however, was not enough for you was it? You proceeded to insult the OP and, due to your anti-D40 prejudice,
Please kep your ass-umptions to yourself. You're projecting your anti-D50 crusade onto myself.

(Snipped the rest; too factually "incorrect".....no, not incorrect, just flat out lies).
 
It wasn't a failed comback attempt. Anyone who has read the text of this thread should realise I do not need a built-in motor on this particular camera.
Why should we"realise" this? Cutting yourself off from 3/4 of the available lens supply is hardly evident from anything posted so far.
I'd rather have a smaller and lighter body.
And if THAT is what makes a bargain in your book, then a D40 is your best bet. But that is the only thing the D40 has going for it.

Me, I want economical options, I want the widest possible variety of choices, and I want flexibility. And a D40 doesn't offer any of that.

--
:-)
:-(
http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com

 
It wasn't a failed comback attempt. Anyone who has read the text of this thread should realise I do not need a built-in motor on this particular camera.
Why should we"realise" this?
Because in my first response I said this, "I'm learning already! I didn't think any of these had built-in motors! To be fair, I don't think I need one."
Bit of a clue there.
Cutting yourself off from 3/4 of the available lens supply is hardly evident from anything posted so far.
I also mentioned I have a D200 so I'm not cut off, and that the main lens to be used on this camera would be a 18~55 VR.
I'd rather have a smaller and lighter body.
And if THAT is what makes a bargain in your book, then a D40 is your best bet. But that is the only thing the D40 has going for it.
You really haven't read this thread have you? Small and light is a big requirement because it is for an eight year old. Decent IQ up to 10x8 was another, and good performance at high ISO a third. But, I'm repeating myself.
Me, I want economical options, I want the widest possible variety of choices, and I want flexibility. And a D40 doesn't offer any of that.
My requirements differ from yours and are clearly stated. For my requirements the D40 is a better choice. I can get a refurb with a guarantee for less than £200. That's economical. I already own about 10 lenses that will work on it so will not be buying any more. That's economical too. It's also beside the point, but as you asked.....

--
http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
It seems clear that your mind was already made up; the decision was very clear before the responses flowed in.

I applaud you for knowing what you want; which is more than can be said for many people that post here; congratulations on that.

But I'm now wondering: why you started this thread. (Rhetorical question).
 
JoKing - you have obviously read this thread carefully and understood my requirments. Your well-reasoned responses clearly show that I have asked the right questions to reach a decision that was right for me, and you have been most helpful.

CM_laptop - you have either not bothered to read my posts or have chosen to ignore them. Your stubborn resistance to my conclusions shows this. Any suggestions that I am trolling or that my questions are not genuine are insulting to me and to the intelligence of other people who have followed this thread.
It's all there in black & white. I suggest you go back and read it.

--
http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
It seems clear that your mind was already made up; the decision was very clear before the responses flowed in.

I applaud you for knowing what you want; which is more than can be said for many people that post here; congratulations on that.

But I'm now wondering: why you started this thread. (Rhetorical question).
Go back and read the thread. It's all there in black and white.

--
http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
You mean he's just trolling; since his decision has already been made? I hope not.
LOL, so now anyone that doesn't agree with CM_laptop's opinion is a troll? No, the OP was not a trolling. He was unaware of the differences between the D40, D50 and D60. He was informed of the differences, then he made his decision. You just turned up late to the party after that decision was made. Understand now?
.....but they would not have sufficient info regarding ht e differnces bteween the D50 & the D40. That's the point.
I outlined some of the key differences in my last post and why they make the D40 more suitable for the OP. Shame you didn't acknowledge them isn't it?
Please kep your ass-umptions to yourself. You're projecting your anti-D50 crusade onto myself.
No anti-D50 crusade on my part - I said in my last post it was a great camera and for those that still own one, it still is. But it's also been discontinued for three years! That's what this little tirade of yours is about CM_laptop isn't it? You're still bitter about Nikon's decision to remove in-body motors from their entry-level models. Now, three years ago, with the launch of the D40, it was a legitimate concern, however a number of things have happened since that make it a complete non-issue . Firstly, the D40 was massively successful for Nikon and is perhaps the best selling DSLR of all time. Why? Because it was small, cheap, performed great and probably 90% of the target market don't even go further than the kit lenses, never mind miss being able to use ones that won't AF on the body. It was a great marketing move and has consigned the in-body focus motor at the entry-level to history. The second reason it is now less of an issue was again alluded to in my last post. Nikon is committed to bolstering its low-cost DX line of lenses. Furthermore, all the third parties use in lens focus motors and those with lenses and/or are refreshing their ranges (e.g. Tamron http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08090205tamron_AF90mm.asp and Tokina http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092403tokina.asp ).

Stop living in the past and accept the fact that the in-body focus motor is now dead at the entry-level (actually two levels now - D3000 and D5000). Hopefully with this knowledge you will be able to move on with your life and when Nikon release their next generation of entry-level DSLRs you will not need to post superfluous, out-of-date, irrelevant messages like the following which run counter to Nikon's strategy of nearly half a decade:

CM_laptop whines about the D5000:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=32112966

CM_laptop whines about the D3000:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=32543854
 
an ad hominem attack.....it seems to be the norm for you, JoKing, when somebody doesn't agree with you.

Not only that; you try to prevent others from disagreeing with you in the future by subtly labelling them through this anti-D50 crusade of yours.

The person who has completely lost the argument is prone to launching such ad homienem attacks as you just did, Joking.

Thanks for confirming my points. If you don't like my opinion; just move on; no need to hurl insults.
 
an ad hominem attack.....it seems to be the norm for you, JoKing, when somebody doesn't agree with you.
Nope, no ad hominem attack. You can't even quote it, because I didn't make one. No, I simply pointed to posts made by you in the past that clearly demonstrate you have an issue with cameras without in-body focus motors. That is highly relevant to this discussion and is the reason why you would never recommend a D40 to anyone, even if it was the best camera to fit their requirements.
Not only that; you try to prevent others from disagreeing with you in the future by subtly labelling them through this anti-D50 crusade of yours.
LOL anti-D50 crusade?!? How can someone make a crusade against a discontinued product? This assertion once again is not borne out by the facts, because I have twice praised the D50 in previous posts.
The person who has completely lost the argument is prone to launching such ad homienem attacks as you just did, Joking.
Which argument have I lost? The majority of the people on this thread, including most importantly the OP, agree with me, so I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.
Thanks for confirming my points. If you don't like my opinion; just move on; no need to hurl insults.
Once again, please practice what you preach. You didn't agree with the OP's decision because it didn't fit your opinion so there was no need to insult him. That's the difference between you and me CM_laptop. I take pleasure in providing people with facts in order for them to reach their own conclusions. You, on the other hand, ignore inconvenient facts and instead deride and bully people into agreeing with your opinion. Unfortunately, in this case your opinion has been exposed as being flawed and irrational - too bad for you.
 
an ad hominem attack.....it seems to be the norm for you, JoKing, when somebody doesn't agree with you.
Nope, no ad hominem attack. You can't even quote it, because I didn't make one. No, I simply pointed to posts made by you in the past that clearly demonstrate you have an issue with cameras without in-body focus motors. That is highly relevant to this discussion and is the reason why you would never recommend a D40 to anyone, even if it was the best camera to fit their requirements.
See? that is a classical example of a subtle ad hominem attack. You can never assume such a thing.
(Snipped some other snide parts of your post for clarity)
Once again, please practice what you preach. You didn't agree with the OP's decision because it didn't fit your opinion so there was no need to insult him. That's the difference between you and me CM_laptop. I take pleasure in providing people with facts in order for them to reach their own conclusions. You, on the other hand, ignore inconvenient facts and instead deride and bully people into agreeing with your opinion. Unfortunately, in this case your opinion has been exposed as being flawed and irrational - too bad for you.
This second attack on me isn't even subtle; it's a purely aggressive paragraph aimed at insulting me. It also includes a classical, dictionary-definition case, of projection.

(The only one acting like a bully is you; but you project that behavior unto me.)

Give it a rest already.....I know you're waiting anxiously for my response to be able to hurl back more abuse from the comfort of your keyboard.....resist that & concentrate on the topic at hand.....which incidentally has also been beaten to death, both by you & the OP by now.
 
Give it a rest already.....I know you're waiting anxiously for my response to be able to hurl back more abuse from the comfort of your keyboard.....resist that & concentrate on the topic at hand.....which incidentally has also been beaten to death, both by you & the OP by now.
You must be kidding me!! He is concentrating on the topic at hand. You are the one telling us both that we're wrong despite completely ingnoring what the original post requested. And as for beating it to death, we came to a satisfactory conclusion many days ago, it's just you that is convinced we are both wrong.

--
http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
Give it a rest already.....I know you're waiting anxiously for my response to be able to hurl back more abuse from the comfort of your keyboard.....resist that & concentrate on the topic at hand.....which incidentally has also been beaten to death, both by you & the OP by now.
You must be kidding me!! He is concentrating on the topic at hand. You are the one telling us both that we're wrong despite completely ingnoring what the original post requested. And as for beating it to death, we came to a satisfactory conclusion many days ago, it's just you that is convinced we are both wrong.

--
http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
Well, it's obvious that this thread needs to die. slimandy, get the D40 and just ignore any other posts (other than this one). It's a waste of your time to reply anymore. And now I'm going to go for a mountain bike ride with my D40 and 18-55 kit lens. See ya!
 
an ad hominem attack.....it seems to be the norm for you, JoKing, when somebody doesn't agree with you.
Nope, no ad hominem attack. You can't even quote it, because I didn't make one. No, I simply pointed to posts made by you in the past that clearly demonstrate you have an issue with cameras without in-body focus motors. That is highly relevant to this discussion and is the reason why you would never recommend a D40 to anyone, even if it was the best camera to fit their requirements.
See? that is a classical example of a subtle ad hominem attack. You can never assume such a thing.
No assumption necessary. Your posting history is plain for everyone to see. However, I must forewarn anyone that might be considering reading it - it ain't pretty!
(Snipped some other snide parts of your post for clarity)
By "snide parts" you of course mean facts which damage your argument?
Once again, please practice what you preach. You didn't agree with the OP's decision because it didn't fit your opinion so there was no need to insult him. That's the difference between you and me CM_laptop. I take pleasure in providing people with facts in order for them to reach their own conclusions. You, on the other hand, ignore inconvenient facts and instead deride and bully people into agreeing with your opinion. Unfortunately, in this case your opinion has been exposed as being flawed and irrational - too bad for you.
This second attack on me isn't even subtle; it's a purely aggressive paragraph aimed at insulting me. It also includes a classical, dictionary-definition case, of projection.

(The only one acting like a bully is you; but you project that behavior unto me.)
There are no insults in the quoted paragraph, only substantiated facts. I guess that's why they say the truth hurts sometimes?
Give it a rest already.....I know you're waiting anxiously for my response to be able to hurl back more abuse from the comfort of your keyboard.....resist that & concentrate on the topic at hand.....which incidentally has also been beaten to death, both by you & the OP by now.
As you often like to act the armchair psychologist, please allow me the privilege of making my own assessment. The only thing I see in this thread is someone suffering from a severe case of denial.
 
Give it a rest already.....I know you're waiting anxiously for my response to be able to hurl back more abuse from the comfort of your keyboard.....resist that & concentrate on the topic at hand.....which incidentally has also been beaten to death, both by you & the OP by now.
You must be kidding me!! He is concentrating on the topic at hand. You are the one telling us both that we're wrong
You gotta be kidding me....your anger is preventing you from reading things clearly. I never ever, I repeat, never said you were wrong.

I only mentioned that the D50 is also an option.

Andrew, no excuse about it: you had your decision way before making the initial OP; you just needed some coaxing to justify your decision. You're happy, I'm happy for you; we're all happy.

What's so wrong with that; other than JoKing's useless tirade?
 
If this mental masturbatory fantasy of yours makes you happy; keep at it.

Go on; vent out your pent-up anger here; have the last word.....it's all yours, right?
 
You gotta be kidding me....your anger is preventing you from reading things clearly. I never ever, I repeat, never said you were wrong.
I said I'd decided the D40 was the best choice for me. You said...

"Given the choice between two pristine copies of the D50 & the D40; both at reasonable prices; it is a no brainer; & it's not the D40. It's the D50. "
If that's not telling me I'm wrong?
I only mentioned that the D50 is also an option.
No, you said it was a "no brainer".

I said it was an option, along with the D40 and D60. I ruled it out after gaining more information.
Andrew, no excuse about it: you had your decision way before making the initial OP; you just needed some coaxing to justify your decision. You're happy, I'm happy for you; we're all happy.
No I never. I didn't have a clue what the differences were. I actually assumed the D40 was older than the D50 and that none of these bodies had a built-in motor. I had no bias or reason to favour one over the other prior to asking the question.
What's so wrong with that; other than JoKing's useless tirade?
He's frustrated at your stubborness. I don't blame him. He has had a good understanding of what I required all the way along; you clearly have not.

--
http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
slimandy wrote:
(deleted all the tiresome babbling tirade of yours)

Yeah....whatever. This post of yours makes it evident you're out to spoil for a fight....long after the storm calmed down.

Go on if it makes you happy......nice example you're setting.

Enjoy your cameras.
 
Yeah....whatever. This post of yours makes it evident you're out to spoil for a fight....long after the storm calmed down.
...says the man who waited nearly two days before posting a confrontational reply!

Remember what I told you twice before, CM_laptop - practice what you preach . It'll do you some good! ;) :D
 

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