Martial arts photography

I'm impressed with all the advice that you guys have given me. This is really great.

I'm taking photos of people as they're testing to rank up, so I'm reluctant to use flash. I wouldn't want to distract anyone.

I'm going to try cranking up the ISO a bit more and experiment with manual focus.

Since I do practice aikido myself, I do have a pretty good idea of where folks are going. When I did this last shoot, I was trying to shoot in burst, but it seems my camera just can't handle that. So instead of trying the shotgun approach, I'll prefocus and just try to time my shots.

I might also try AF-S and focus lock. At f4 I wouldn't think I'd have too many problems with changing depth of field. The uke and nage (attacker and defender) tend to make circular movements and frequently the distance between me and them doesn't change a whole lot.

I'll make do the best I can with my current equipment. If I were doing this for money, I'd buy a D300 and a 24-70 in a heartbeat, but I'm doing this for fun. I do want to upgrade my gear, but I have to be cost conscious.

On a side note, should I continue with the 55-200 at f/4? I recently got a 16-85, which has a really good range for where I'm positioned. I get the impression that the focus speed of my 16-85 is faster than my 55-200, but at 50mm it's f/5 instead of f/4. Worth the trade-off? Since it's my new lens, I wish it was, but considering my biggest problem seems to be slow shutter speeds, I suspect not.

Thanks everyone.

I'd recommend getting a D90 or a used D300 and get a 50 f/1.8 or a Tamron 17-50 2.8
The money you'd save on not getting the 50 f/1.4 G will serve you well.
The D90 gets you to ISO 1600 without really feeling the noise.

If you want to stick with the D60, you could also look into the Tammy 17-50 2.8, or Sigma 18-50 f/2.8.

Both have built in motors that function decently on the D60.

You need the 35mm 1.8 AFS instead of the 50mm 1.4.

The 50mm is going to be too tight of an angle for you most likely...
It seems you like the context of the dojo/arena.

Its also half the price~! (Since you are on DX might as well take advantage of it).

I also recommend just dealing with the noise and shooting a lot faster with auto ISO.
On a monopod preferably!

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Sincerely,

GlobalGuyUSA

The D90 is definitely your upgrade camera if you find the cash.
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Sincerely,

GlobalGuyUSA

Few things to know about Aikido in the Dojo... you need to:

Stop action.
Have some degree of DOF.
Have instant shutter response.
Respect your Sensei's decision regarding use of flash.

Stop Action. LIGHT - this seperates the photographers from the spectators. You've heard the realestate/businees term "Location, location, location." Well, learn the photography term "Light, Light, Light." Don't leave home without it.

Use at least two remote flashes, mount high on light stands - 10 feet up or higher. Umbrellas will soften the shadows. This is where your money is best spent. Be sure your Sensei is OK with use of flash. If not, get yourself some good photo lamps. You need LIGHT. Whether you use flash or photo lamp, be sure to cover them with color gels to match to color of the Dojo lighting. DON'T fight the ambient light, amplify it, flow with it. Put your mind on your light, not your lens.

If flash is permitted, set your camera to manual mode and crank up the shutter speed to 1/250s. Use a noise free ISO, like 400.

DON'T try to use a fast lens - you'll lose too many shots due to improper focal plane placement. Phat glass is expensive. Save the money and get yourself a good light kit. Use f/5.6 or f/8 (if your flashes can provide enough light for it).

Shutter response. Use manual focus if you can. If you suck at it, practice. It isn't hard to get proficient using f/5.6 when your subjects are limited to the central mat space. Turn VR off, you won't need it.

I like using an beefy aluminum monopod - the mass adds stabiltiy. The new superlight carbon fiber monopods are too light. My favorite gadget is the BushHawk. Far better mobility than a monopod offers. Looks cool in the Dojo, too.

Your pictures will be bright, sharp and snappy. Just like the pix of O-Sensei that were made over 50 years ago - with FILM! Slow film! And, slow lenses... Learn from the old masters.

Hajime!

Fast shots at ISO 3200 and 6400 will really freeze things. The D90 does it good. I also like high F9 and F11 to keep things focused. Noise does not matter. Freezing does.

I'd go ahead and get a fast lens and dont be afraid to open it up. With practive you can stay focused on them easily even with a relatively narrow dof. Fast lens, open up shoot auto iso and let'r rip! I wouldnt be afraid of letting it hit iso 3200 if needed! Good luck!

Ciao

Just to give you a sample of a similar stage, here's a sample of mine:

D200 - 50mm - 1/180s - F/4.5 - iso 400



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All the best from northern Italy, Dino.
I'm on the NIK side of photography.

As you see in some cases 1/80s is already "too" long

Same setup as above, just different shutter time.



--
All the best from northern Italy, Dino.
I'm on the NIK side of photography.

F/4 - 1/125 (for what I see, 1/90s - 1/180s could be your preferred time range)

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All the best from northern Italy, Dino.
I'm on the NIK side of photography.

Sorry, something went wrong with last pic

THIS is F/4 - 1/125s (always D200 and 50 mm)



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All the best from northern Italy, Dino.
I'm on the NIK side of photography.

You will have to manually focus the 50mm 1.8 on a D60, so the 1.4g would be better for autofocus, or try the sigma 50mm 1.4 HSM.

...have to be way faster to freeze the action.
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Kindest regards,
Stany
http://www.fotografie.fr/
http://www.fotografie.fr/fotoforum/index.php

I prefer one really good picture in a day over 10 bad ones in a second...

With flash, duration of the light blast is on the order of 1/1000s to 1/8000s, depending on your flash's design and the power level. Point is, using flash - you don't need a fast shutter. You just need to be more than 2 stops underexposed without the flalshes. Usually, a low ISO and 1/200s or 1/250s shutter is more than adequate - the stop action comes from the flash.

This gives a very crisp, highly saturated image. Provides lots of detail in the Black Hakimas, too. Far superior to the high ISO game.

For you guys suggesting the use of phat glass at max ap - bad advice for shooting Aikido.

Thought it worthy to note another thing:

Aikido uniforms are half white, half black. Shooting Aikido requires a camera with high dynamic range. Every time you increase the ISO, you decrease the dynamic range.

A lot of great advice from Mr. Wisniewski.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

It seems that most fast lenses (zooms at least) cost significantly more than a camera upgrade (a D90 without lens is less than $1,000).

Click to expand...

A D90 is not a significant update from a D60. Think used D300 or D2X.

Click to expand...

For higher ISO performance, the D60 can be shot at ISO1600 for better quality, both noise and higher shutter speed, than the picture shot there. In any case, this fellow will need to learn the art of pre-focusing on a point. That's how I shoot most of my martial arts photos. Since one person's face is not always of greater interest, the art is knowing the two person sequence and judging the center point of their action. Any recent Nikon camera can prefocus. He'll have just as many misses with the D60 as with a D3 or D2H, in my experience.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

A D2X or D300 will slam the older screwdriver 50mm f1.4 around a lot faster than the new AF-S lens can manage. That's another lens you can get into for under $300 used.

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The D90 or D300 are worth it, but I doubt the D2X at ISO1600. The higher continuous frame rate of the D300 is the major difference, and that requires the battery pack. And guess what, to avoid missing sequences while they're writing to flash, more $$ must be spent for

The 50mm f/1.4 is ok, but in my experience with specifically this setting in martial arts, you have to shoot no wider than f/2.2 or f/2.5 anyway. The 50mm f/1.8 will do. The 50mm f/1.4 isn't that great wider than f/2.8 anyway.

I really enjoyed using the 17-55DX or 24-70mm with my D3 at ISO3200 for indoor action sports. I used to use a D2H with 28/50/85mm f/1.4 with SB800 and Quantum Turbo2x2. What a relief ! Also, shooting action at f/2.8 reduces the immense chore of focusing as well as throwing away a lot of misfocused shots or those with inadequate DOF.

The problem isn't the lens or the camera or you. The problem is the amount of light. I shoot high school wrestling inside, and it is virtually hopeless without flash. I use 2 SB800s on light stands in the corners of the gym pointed at the center of the mat triggered wirelessly. Unless you use flash or get a D700/D3 + ultra fast lens, the situation is hopeless. Your better bet would be to put the SB600 on, point it at the ceiling, set the camera to manual, dial in 1/250 speed, your biggest aperature, your highest ISO, and then adjust the ISO until you start getting good shots. Good luck!
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Marc Liberts
http://www.santabarbarapix.com

If you need exposure of f4 1/50 ISO800 then there are several proper exposures.
f4 1/50 800
f2.8 1/100 800
f2 1/200 800
f1.4 1/400 800 (all of this in manual exposure mode)

we got to 1/400 shutter with the prime lens. That is above the speed of the flash, which means you cannot use flash. From here you can go 2 ways!
First is to increase the ISO even more without using flash which is:
f1.4 1/800 1600 which will result in better motion stopping
or to decrease the ISO so the flash can help lighting the scene:

f1.4 1/200 ISO400, but since using the flash brings more light to the scene, we can bring the ambient light a stop down with decreasing the ISO another stop.
That should result in a:
f1.4 1/200 ISO200 with fill flash (set to rear curtain) to light up the scene.

What does that mean? The f1.4 will let plenty of light from the flash and ambient, while nicely isolating the subjects. The shutter will stop the motion even more. The ISO200 will provide excellent colours and contrast, with better dynamic range compared to a ISO800 shot. The flash (set to rear curtain) will show motion trails from the movement and a bit stopped action where it fired. The scene is 1 stop underexposed, but the subjects are properly exposed because the flash compensated the light on them, isolating them even further.
I hope I helped
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pg
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Dejan Malikovski said:

If you need exposure of f4 1/50 ISO800 then there are several proper exposures.
f4 1/50 800
f2.8 1/100 800
f2 1/200 800
f1.4 1/400 800 (all of this in manual exposure mode)

Click to expand...

All correct. The trouble with f/1.4 is that DOF is inadequate for this shooting situation.

I have no experience with martial arts but looking at the photos I'd suggest an alternative way. It surely works for full time MF people but it may take some adjustment if you don't shoot MF every day. If can be real manual mode or judiciously overriding the auto modes. (For me it is full manual but this is not the main point). Everything from focusing, aperture size and shutterspeed (and white balance) can be non auto seperately or in combination.

I'll shoot without flash with fixed focal manual focus lenses with pre-set white balance.

Lighting is almost fixed indoors and won't vary much. So we don't even need metering and the associated irratic variations in shutter speed from shot to shot and if you happen to (or are forced to because of timing) include one of the lights in the walls/ceilings because of timing of the shot, you won't get the metering wrong (and get the picture of the light bulb right!). White balance follows the same logic. Preset white balance should be used (until you change shooting locations and there happens to be very strong lighting colour differences)

People do run around a little bit in the sport but there is a predictable and limited space. So the focus distance variations is known (but yes we still need to manually track it because we are likely to use larger apertures). In comparison, for using AF, if a certain trigger from the players (e.g. a sudden winning punch or kick) forces you to take a shot quickly, you won't fall into the classic trap of AF chosing the wrong spot to focus on out of haste. Modern lenses (higher end AFS lenses) do have full time manual override and that will help.

AF is never 100% reliable, continously focusing mode is the same (worse?). But of course everything is relative to the practice you put in and this a horses for courses thing. I have given up AF after years of disapppointment with AF outcomes. There are types of photography for which AF is mandatory but luckily they are not what I do. For sports with a limited focus distance variation and indoors artificial lighting, manual mode is a viable alternative. You may not get the clearest spot spot on but you margin of error is much much lower than the case of the AF system thinking not what you are thinking, esp when the shot has to be taken at once at the criticla moment.

Of course with AF lenses you have the option of pre-AF and then switching to MF mode to freeze the distance. The main point is in pure AF (even continuously focusing mode) there is often the risk of the camera thinking not what you are thinking. You don't want to have the shot out of focus when it happens to be the critical move that decides winning or losing. It may sound counter intuitive, MF is more reliable when certain parameters outlined above are right.

Fixed lenses surely help in terms of light transmission, simplicity of optical artifacts and more faithful preservation of weak lights and shadows. Again, do set the pre-set white balance. I'll say it is mandatory.